Riot Game Developers Don't Know What To Do With Karma. It's Their Fault Though.

Deathfall··11 votes·9,785 views
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Meddler posted on OCE boards about how hard it is to work on champions with multiple iterations, like Karma who he mentioned. Isn't that part of the problem though? It's been 6 years and Developers still haven't done anything. Between the back and fourth nerfs, cancelled GU, sitting at a subpar 45-47% winrate, being one of the dullest champions in the game, and removing almost everything that made Karma unique and interesting to play . . . . Karma's problems lie in the fact that she isn't interesting, she has no gameplay identity, and other champions do her job better. There are supports better at supporting their allies than Karma. There are top laners who are better at winning lane than Karma. There are mages who do more damage and have more interesting mechanics than Karma. To make this champion function and have above a 50% winrate, Developers have to overbuff her kit . . . but that always leads it to be majorly nerfed right after. Having a champion that can do everything but not really excel at anything isn't healthy for the game.

The game has changed so much the past 6 years. Karma has 3 different playstyles because Developers removed what was interesting and unique about Karma and didn't actually address issues with her kit and gameplay identity. Players complain that Karma is too strong to play against because of her damage and sustainability, but that has to happen because without those numbers Karma is barely even a champion. Karma has one damage move, no hard CC, and one defensive move. One Mantra is always going to outshine another because of how her kit is designed and it's going to lead to the 3 different Karma players feeling like they are being shafted.

At this point Riot needs to double down on who and what they want Karma to be in this game. Do they want Karma to be a solo laner with supportive abilities or a support with sustained damage? All of the Mantra abilities need to be reworked/tweaked to make Karma more unique. Shield bomb, the fans, a proper VU, the clothesline mechanic, and other old things about Karma doesn't necessarily need to come back to make her a better champion. Riot Game Developers have the manpower, time, and creativity to make Karma more unique and a cohesive champion. The lack of a cohesive kit that functions with a gameplay identity is Karma's problem. The question of who and what Karma is supposed to be in this game and in this world needs to be addressed.

Is Karma a mage that can go top/mid and also support allies when necessary?

Is Karma a support with sustained damage that can protect allies and herself with superior utility?

The current kit needs to be worked on and there is no more excuses. With all of the attention Karma is getting it's really exciting and I want to buy the new skin . . . but I'm left feeling shafted on a gameplay level with this champion. Karma is not fun and interesting to play as and when she is over-buffed she isn't fun to play as or against.

11 Comments

boricCentaur13 votes

Riot needs to accept that they have to take all the hate and just kill karma in all but one role.

Deathfall3 votes

{quoted}

Riot needs to accept that they have to take all the hate and just kill karma in all but one role.

Well, they refuse to do anything at this point. Their laziness created 3 different communities on players that are always at odds with one another. Riot refused to address her issues and the meta, runes and itemization created a mess of a champion. Like you said, until Riot decides what they are actually going to do on this champion, she will always be at a 45-47% winrate champion who has to be numbers buffed into oblivion to be relevant.

Tobykachu2 votes

It genuinely baffles me why they’re making so many skins for a champion they refuse to allow to be viable for more than 1 patch.

Z3SIeeper2 votes

Karma? You mean Generic Fireball Mage?

If only there were some kind of cool and interesting direction to push a mage in other than "I shoot fireballs". What if they reworked her into something like a mage that uses fans and shield bombs whose entire kit is based around the concept of dual functionality. Idk I'm just spitballing here.

For real though, Karma's rework was an out-of-the-blue, unrequested rework that took any shred of originality she had and converted it into a fireball.

Also Ivern stole her shield bomb rip.

Noraver2 votes

Honestly, with a name like Karma, I would expect her to be a Support that reflects damage back from their ADC to the enemy. ..But that's not even close to what you see when you pick her up.

Being able to attach her current Empowered W to an ally and an enemy? Awesome Support ability idea. "You stand on my ADC, you heal them and get rooted. KARMA FOR DIVING!"

I'd like to see Riot have her be that kind of Support. Her personality just doesn't seem right for a Mage, but that's just my opinion.

ZapMyHeart2 votes

Oh, look at that. Meddler is putting out his excuse of refusing to change Karma yet again.

His last line "come at the expense of a lot of current players" is basically the running excuse they keep trying to feed us when it comes to working on Karma.

Like I said when Neurocat said the same thing in the thread she was called out on: "Why are current Karma players more important than the previous ones?"

  1. They didn't consider old Karma players when they dropped the rushed relaunch created by a 1st time designer who pulled bits and pieces from their testing when the original designer Guinsoo was suspiciously removed from the project.

  2. They didn't consider those "current" Karma players when they removed the shield bomb.

  3. They didn't consider any of those "current" Karma players when they were changing her throughout these past ~6 years.

Yet, when confronted with a change, they are suddenly like, "Oh no no no. We need to consider these poor 'current' Karma players".

I call BS. Meddler wants to keep this narrative of "woe betide on those poor "current" Karma players", yet, when the balance team makes any sort of nerfs to Karma, suddenly, those "current Karma players" aren't important.

"Current Karma players" are only important when it suits them to pull that card. Every time else, they are laid to the wayside just like the rest of the iteration of "current Karma players" in the past.

Besides, other champions seem to dodge the "Oh, those poor current X champion players" nonsense when they implemented changes. Why is Karma such a special champion that needs to be a snowflake when it comes to changes?

Templar2k71 votes

{quoted}

Karma has one damage move, no hard CC, and one defensive move. One Mantra is always going to outshine another because of how her kit is designed and it's going to lead to the 3 different Karma players feeling like they are being shafted.

Is a root no longer considered hard CC?

Nell Sparks2 votes

Hard CC at least when the term is used in league is something that stops you from controlling your champ AND interrupts channels,Stuns,Knockups

TyRamos2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nell Sparks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pqOZ1eZW,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-10-17T05:01:12.421+0000)

Hard CC at least when the term is used in league is something that stops you from controlling your champ AND interrupts channels,Stuns,Knockups

That's not true. You have loss of control hard/soft cc while also having a immobilization hard/soft cc. Roots are hard CC in the immobilization category but only soft in loss of control.

Nell Sparks1 votes

I even prefaced the term when League uses it. Hard CC does 2 things and Soft CC only does 1. League has its own definitions and HAS for 10 years now.

Lulu's Pix proccing on hit damage for AAs is commonly used. But the r in proc means its random when it obviously isn't.

Mihalikb1 votes

The only purpose of Karma is the annoy the shit out of top laners. It's like the Champ you pick if they banned your favorite champ or first picked your hard counter. Pick Karma, go top, build tank and just be unbearably annoying.

You can't really win your lane. You will have a minimal effect on the outcome of the game, but you will be annoying as shit.

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