So Let's Talk About Tryn & Why You Shouln't Buff Him

Deathfall··48 votes·13,489 views

Poppy's old ULT was along the same lines of Tryn's current ULT. There is no counterplayer to it. Tryn is unkillable , can stick to you and heal himself up to full health. On paper Tryn is the prime example of bad champion design because I feel like there is no counterplay to any part of his kit. With other ULTS that give immunity and bring people back to life, there is counterplay. Taric's ULT has this loadtime. Kayle's doesn't last that long. Players can predict where Zilean's target is going to be. I think it is BS to have a champion that cannot die with no counterplay, can twirl around you even if you try to get away, can heal himself up to full health, can critically hit everything in his path with auto attacks, and nothing works on him. There is nothing on this champion that is fun to play against.

Don't even THINK about buffing this champion unless you are going to make his ULT less of a hindrance towards players. It's ridiculous to think this champion needs buffs when in reality he needs kit adjustments to actually give him counterplay.

82 Comments

Pika Fox22 votes

Trynd pays for his ult by having no "outplay" button. He is incentivized to build full damage, and has nothing that can negate CC in his kit. Yi is immune to slows and Q can dodge abilities with timing. Trynd gets none of that. The team has to invest in trynd if he is to be viable in teamfights.

thaBeast3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yeO4uYaP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-09T15:26:43.959+0000)

Trynd pays for his ult by having no "outplay" button. He is incentivized to build full damage, and has nothing that can negate CC in his kit. Yi is immune to slows and Q can dodge abilities with timing. Trynd gets none of that. The team has to invest in trynd if he is to be viable in teamfights.

clearly you havent seen a tryndamere build tank i went with item 3025 item 3065 item 3512 ( before banner was buffed) boots item 3075 item 3193 or ga if i wanna be stronger and then with ult combined i was nearly unkillable

Pika Fox28 votes

No i havnt seen a trynd build like that because that would be garbage. Hed die quickly and have little to no actual damage.

thaBeast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yeO4uYaP,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-09T15:59:02.249+0000)

No i havnt seen a trynd build like that because that would be garbage. Hed die quickly and have little to no actual damage.

if you he has a good heal his w lowers ad his e can let you escape since you have around 30 percent cdr with you dont really get that low really often and if you do you got q gargoyle and and ult and if you went ga instead of gargoyle you have a revive and he although it is significantly lower than his damage build he actually has way more sustain and if you want more damage early you can takeitem 3068 first instead of iceborn so no iti snt garbage and his q will give him more ad also

Pika Fox8 votes

And with 0 AS he will do dick all for damage, and still due because he has no defensive steroids other than pressing R. Also lacking AD to back up his crit, and his Q heal is garbage without AP.

VICHEL CHAOS10 votes

Nah the build is broken. The opponents cannot function because their cognitive processes break down when they press tab and see frozen gauntlet. What he got slightly wrong is that it needs to be paired up with frozen heart for best results, not thornmail.

Presence of mind and manaflow band are of course the go-to runes with that build. I guarantee that the tactical battle is won against the opponent, because no one will have a clue about what you are planning to do. Also pressing the gargoyle button is the perfect way to optimize your damage output.

HeimerLmao7 votes

You outplay everyone. Including yourself.

woodvsmurph5 votes

Sorry, but against a competent opponent higher than low silver... that build isn't doing shit to win lane or the game. It's a mere annoyance factor at best. LIke frozen gauntlet ezreal late game vs a full built cait or vayne.... neither of the latter will be afraid of ez 1v1 and both will do more work in teamfights due to having higher damage and at LEAST comparable sustain.

It's not really different from something like ap alistar ignite cheese top... which has strong burst and APPEARS to be tanky... but is very squishy if you trade when his abilities aren't up and exploit their moderate to long cd. Then it's just out sustaining his burst damage so you never get low enough for him to combo+ignite you for a kill and HE ends up the one getting chunked out of lane... and falling far behind due to lacking a tp.

compare this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxsjtKc9Fkw (where lane opponent recognizes and reacts to cheese properly) vs this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ep96W6DXdQ

The 2nd game is what you experienced as trynd with your build. The first is what experienced players would do to you with that build... making it look weak even when you 2v1 them with jg help. And the higher you climb, the worse it's going to look. That first match is just a low gold player. Imagine how much more pathetic it the cheese would look in diamond or challenger. And sure... some cheese is stronger than others. Some cheese is real, others are fake. But it's still cheese regardless.

gabetheguy8 votes

{quoted}

clearly you havent seen a tryndamere build tank i went with item 3025 item 3065 item 3512 ( before banner was buffed) boots item 3075 item 3193 or ga if i wanna be stronger and then with ult combined i was nearly unkillable

this is why you're never leaving bronze.

TheCodeisCupCake3 votes

Hm. my ult makes me unkillable, Sounds like a good idea to build_ FULL FUCKING DEFENSE._

GØÐSLAYER3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yeO4uYaP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-09T15:26:43.959+0000)

Trynd pays for his ult by having no "outplay" button. He is incentivized to build full damage, and has nothing that can negate CC in his kit. Yi is immune to slows and Q can dodge abilities with timing. Trynd gets none of that. The team has to invest in trynd if he is to be viable in teamfights.

A good Trynd will outlast CC through his ult then run away or take one of ur teammates in a 1 for 1 with his ult. I really don't think he needs buffs. He's balanced right now but is pretty annoying. He would be borderline OP if he got any buffs.

Pika Fox7 votes

A "good trynd" wouldnt fight more than a 1v1 or a 1v2. You arent going to outlast CC from a competant team, esp if the support is smart and runs spellbook exhaust.

TheSingularity1 votes

His ult negates CC by being able to cast through it, even when freaking suppressed. being dragged to your doom by urgot? Press R

Pika Fox1 votes

Yeah, and then? Die because youre CCd at 1 HP. K.

TheSingularity1 votes

Q heal, and u have about 4 seconds to AA and life steal or spin away

BIAKaboose1 votes

Trynd ult doesn't make you invulnerable, it just makes you unkillable, the major difference being that even with lifesteal if you can't out-heal their damage and have to ult, they can just continue to keep you at 1HP until it ends, you also never Q heal before your ult is about to end because while ulting you want to be at 1HP for the Q's AD steroid, and you don't want to dump your Rage crits to gain survivability during a window where you cannot die.

Anyone who thinks that tank Trynd is a good viable build just needs to look at rune popularity on Trynd since Conqueror came out. Beforehand a lot of people took Grasp because it gave you some extra padding before hitting the danger zone and needing to ult and it was the best damage rune in the super early stages, and now Conqueror is meta as hell because it just does more damage overall, and when you can guarantee 5 seconds that you won't die building glass cannon is the best way to optimise the power of that death defy.

Pika Fox1 votes

Q heal. Then die because you only had 100 HP. K.

OMGSoAnnoying1 votes

Nah, he still dies to the ult once the reel starts. He becomes untargetable, so cannot ult during the reel in (because he can't target himself). If he ults first, then he lives.

TheSingularity1 votes

Not from what I saw.

Get's trynd low enough,. starts reeling him in trynd activates his ult while being dragged i and survives the ult b4 running away.

He did this multiple times

Jerry SeinfeId16 votes

if you genuinly think he'll lose his ult during a rework you're delusional.

it's what makes trynd trynd and it's never gonna go.

Press Q Win4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yeO4uYaP,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-06-09T17:33:00.384+0000)

if you genuinly think he'll lose his ult during a rework you're delusional.

it's what makes trynd trynd and it's never gonna go.

This is where you are wrong. His ult need to go.

Jerry SeinfeId13 votes

This is where you are wrong:

"His ult need to go." doesn't equal to "it will go"

Press Q Win2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yeO4uYaP,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2018-06-09T17:40:12.241+0000)

This is where you are wrong:

"His ult need to go." doesn't equal to "it will go"

Trust me , it will.

Jerry SeinfeId2 votes

ok then i'll refer you to my original comment. if you want we could keep this going but it's kinda pointless.

SwiftKitten882 votes

[{quoted}](name=Press Q Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yeO4uYaP,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-09T18:10:37.173+0000)

Trust me , it will.

... do i believe it should go, or be modified in some way that makes it so he cant cast it while CCed? or SOMETHING?

but this is RIOT's balance we are talking about...

and the issue doesnt even stem from his ulti.. it stems from damage creep.

back in season 3 and 4..( i started season 3 so i cant talk about 1 and 2) it wasn't a big deal, becuase 5 seconds could only do so much.

nowadays... 5 second is easily more than enough to take a tower. or 1v3.

half the the issues riot has would go away if the fixed damage creep. but they wont. and i dont expect them to fix his ulti either.

becuase if there is one part of the company i don';t trust to do anything right... its the balance team..

and maybe its not thier fault... maybe they don't have a choice.. but whoever is coming up with these shit idea needs to go.

OriginalStra5 votes

If you have a 2-3 level lead and its bronze, yes

ankoanko191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yeO4uYaP,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2018-06-09T17:40:12.241+0000)

This is where you are wrong:

"His ult need to go." doesn't equal to "it will go"

Poppys old ult defined her too but it was removed. Irelias E was also kind of what made her Irelia (outside of the obvious Q) that was also removed and reworked to a stun that actually has counterplay. Who says, Trynds ult cant be something like Zileans ult where there is a timer or something but it rewards him more for proccing it?

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

diplomatic immunity wasn't what made poppy poppy, dashing into you and smacking you for a shit ton of magic damage while building ad is what made poppy just as much as her ult and passive. The kept the 2/4 and the smacking kinda.

It'll probably get linked to his rage like shyvana, that way he won't be able to just ult when he fucks up.

Shazzbot691 votes

[{quoted}](name=Press Q Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yeO4uYaP,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-06-09T17:34:42.924+0000)

This is where you are wrong. His ult need to go.

and why is that? Or is stacking CC to hard for you? Unless he can get out after casting ulti, he is fucked.

Press Q Win2 votes

{quoted}

and why is that? Or is stacking CC to hard for you? Unless he can get out after casting ulti, he is fucked.

On solo lane, even if you have 1 hard CC, Trynd can legit ignore you and split tower, he is going to die ? ^Press R, Attack for 4 second, spîn out and get away . Rinse and repeat until inibitors. This kind of play pattern isn't fun to play against.

Optyc1 votes

^Press R, Attack for 4 second, spîn out and get away . Rinse and repeat until inibitors

If it was this simple he would have been invincible lmao. You know hes gonna ult, you know hix next move in next seconds play according to that and start kiting instead of hitting his ass and that should get you out of silver.

My Waifu Vanilla3 votes

Old Poppy ult was what made Poppy Poppy. Old point and click warwick ult was what made warwick warwick. Old Urgot ult and being an artillery mage like champion is what made old Urgot Urgot. Riot is perfectly fine with removing problematic abilities in VGUs if they are problematic.

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

poppy's dash and passive were just as iconic as her ult, they kept those 2. Warwick's point and click got turned into a skillshot but he didn't lose his ability to jump on someone and surpress them. I barely played old urgot and haven't played the new one so i won't talk about him.

Ayzev1 votes

They could very well decide to give him a Galio-level rework, which technically sorta kinda retained parts of his old self, but made him pretty much unrecognizable overall.

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

visually/lore-wise galio rework is the biggest failure out of all the vgu's, his playstyle changed but i can still see the old abilities in there.

This would still mean he keeps some form of being unkillable.

Ayzev1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yeO4uYaP,comment-id=000500020000,timestamp=2018-06-10T11:18:58.761+0000)

This would still mean he keeps some form of being unkillable.

And that's fine, if it's done right. Currently it's just a "hold up, I wanna hit you a bit more" button, but maybe they'll figure out something more interactive than that.

IcyPepper1 votes

Poppy lost her diplomatic immunity tho, so it's not unheard of for a champion to lose an iconic yet frustrating aspect of their kit in a major rework.

If anything, Trynd would likely keep something similar but with some changes.

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

poppy's dash and passive were just as iconic as her ult, they kept those 2.

I could see it changed tho, probably linked to his rage bar in the same way shyv ult is.

IcyPepper1 votes

Maybe his ult duration could scale with rage? You stay alive longer based on how long you commit to a fight, so Trynds who ult and run don't last.

IP Masquerena1 votes

But then you have to make it in such a way that a Trynd who ults AND fights doesn't last too long.

IcyPepper1 votes

so in other words don't make it last too long either way

a reasonable range of time

Daddy Ants13 votes

Unless he has life steal he can't heal to full.

His Q is a 300 heal.

Sire Hippington7 votes

While i do think Tryn is badly designed, i think his ult is not that problematic. Even though he has his E, he's still pretty easily kited as it has a huge CD if you prevent him from AAing right after the use, and he's rather predictable. It's not that hard to play around those 5 sec.

My main issue with him is his crit passive that turns his early lane into a role of dice and it's absolutly disgusting to play against. The other big issue is how his kit works in a splitpush. While you can easily play around it in teamfights, the savety he gets from the E and his potential to tear down towers duering the 5 sec of his ult are rather disgusting. I have no issue with fighting tryn, but the problem is that tryn simply doesn't WANT to fight me, he just avoids you and you're team while playing PvE and if needed he just ignores you duering his ult to kill what ever structure he's at. It get's even worse on hybrid builts with guinsoo's when he can heal for +50% of his HP with Q.

Beacon Academy6 votes

Trynd's 5 second ult was designed for a game with less damage sources and where fights lasted way longer than a few seconds.

If Riot intends to keep all the damage around, his ult better get duration nerfed.

woodvsmurph5 votes

Trynd isn't fun to play against, or AS compared to many other champs because it's kinda always one sided. Either the trynd is behind, loses, and can never duel his opponent for the first 20+ min of the game and must just suicide split push and eventually get items or... ahead, unkillable even 2v1, and cannot be kited due to his w and e combo. He cannot be chunked out of lane due to q spam which does not require doing damage to get SOME healing.

He IS beatable. The thing is to not screw up early... first few levels and give him a kill. Get burst damage, try to mostly fight when he lacks fury/rage and when his conqueror is not stacked - due to waves bouncing off tower where he's had to wait for wave to bounce and has thus not been auto attacking for the last 4+ sec. If you're playing a damage dealer or even a tank who could built triforce or frozen gauntlet into him... get either lethality or sheen. This combined with strong base damage abilities will let you exploit your greater durability in short trades vs him. He gets you down to 80% hp in a quick trade... you get him down to 70%. He drops you to 50% the next trade; you drop him to 35%. Something like that. Because until he has ult... he's squishy and needs extended trades (which his base hp and reists can't afford him if you time your trades properly). Doing this can net you kills on him if he's greedy, zone him off a ton of cs if you slow push the wave, or force him to base and miss cs and xp to avoid getting blown up by your NEXT trade.

Häxel4 votes

thing why poppy was toxic is cause she was also a tank with high base dmg. they gave xin absicly a mini poppy ult but xin is no tank. neither is trydna and trynda especialy is full squisyh. you can try to burst him down so he either reacts ntof ast enough for ult or uses it pretty early. Trynda is jsut good in splitpush cause he gets screwed in teamfight. You can cc him during ult. i'm not a trynda player but i would trust farther trynda reddit if they say he is currently overwhelmign weak or the riot team as straight up "there is no counterplay" shouting.... ...singed on the other side*[sg-ahri-3]*

VICHEL CHAOS2 votes

Remember Poppy's old passive. She was a tank building full damage, because she just took half damage because why not and she got a lot of armor from her w. The passive is the deal breaker here, possibly the most broken ability ever put in the game after her own ult. That is the reason that they had to nerf her base stats so hard that she never saw the light of day until they reworked her.

hhaavviikk1 votes

{quoted}

thing why poppy was toxic is cause she was also a tank with high base dmg. they gave xin absicly a mini poppy ult but xin is no tank. neither is trydna and trynda especialy is full squisyh. you can try to burst him down so he either reacts ntof ast enough for ult or uses it pretty early. Trynda is jsut good in splitpush cause he gets screwed in teamfight. You can cc him during ult. i'm not a trynda player but i would trust farther trynda reddit if they say he is currently overwhelmign weak or the riot team as straight up "there is no counterplay" shouting.... ...singed on the other side*[sg-ahri-3]*

old poppy with the old ult didn't go tank, she'd go full AD/AP then ult the target with the lowest damage/CC and go in and kill your ADC in 1/2 second(s) and you wouldn't be able to stop he since not even CC worked on her, hell if she was fed enough she could kill 2 squishies before her ult expired

mack91123 votes

He is pretty simple to outplay if you are aware of his cooldowns , force out the ult then commit

MajorDanger2 votes

Have you ever heard of Crowd Control (CC)?

Have you ever tried to use Trynd's ult while being CC'd?

Pretty easy to kill Trynd when he's CC'd - even in ult.

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