@Riot Meddler, You & Reav3s Don't Understand (Karma Argument)

Deathfall··74 votes·17,464 views

Two years ago I had a pretty intense conversation with you, Meddler. This conversation was about how this Development team handled Karma's relaunch/VGU 5 years ago, which was 3 years ago at the time. Meddler basically said Karma had major problems on an identity, thematic and art level, but they didn't have the money and resources to ever work on her. Then he brought up how Ezreal needed a mini-VGU more than Karma, who had complete art assets, a working kit, has more skins, and a decent thematic in comparison to Karma and so many other champions.

Today, I read a post by a Karma main who said he was excited about the idea that Karma would get a Ezreal level mini VGU. Unfortunately I hate to break the news to you, some of us have been fighting for this champion for 5 years and to no avail. Some of us have been talking with two Developers for the past couple years to get any work done on her, to be ignored and have other champions brought up. Reav3s is so personally out of the loop with the game and so close minded that he doesn't see the champions that actually need work. Reav3s said 2 years ago that "Karma is fine the way she is", but look at where Karma is today. She is suffering from the same problems that all of us have been telling him and Meddler for the past couple years. Karma's art, thematic and kit is not working. Karma is still sitting at a pretty low winrate and has been since the relaunch 5 years ago. The only time Karma is ever even played and mentioned is when something in her kit is overbuffed or the itemization is incredibly one sided.

If I and so many other players that are attached to specific champions are telling you there are problems with their champions, why is work constantly being prioritized and favored towards popular champions? Ryze has received almost 7 large scale reworks/VGU, Lux has received countless art and kit updates over the years and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you guys are not prioritizing a mini VGU on her right now, Ahri is constantly being worked on, Jinx is constantly in the spotlight and needs work done every year . . . . but you cannot be bothered to work on champions like Karma for the past 5 years, Lissandra for the past couple years, Malzahar for the past year, and so many other champions that are continuing to be neglected and ignored for years . . . for the same type of work that is always done on the same champions every year.


The major problem I have is if the community is telling you they think Veiger, Lee Sin, and Jarvan need a full visual update compared to a champion like Lissandra, Malzahar and Karma (which is a far stretch by the way) . . . . why is Veiger, Lee Sin and Jarvan having their art assets worked on when in a few years you are just going to make that work irrelevant and replace it? I don't understand it. Wouldn't you time and work be better if it was on something that actually mattered and needs the work? News flash . . . . Riot doesn't care anymore.

I don't want to hear the excuses from this community please. Feel free to downvote me if you don't care, but the point of this thread is to bring attention about Meddler and Reav3s constant bias decision making. They are now in charge of certain things in the game and if you think your champions are going to ever get work done on them and make it really matter, unfortunately you are in a for a rude awakening. I have been personally fighting with these two over the years and everything that the majority of us have said about champions like Karma, Liss, Malzahar and so many other champions have all come true and they are still in the same pathetic states they are in.

82 Comments

SnugglePuggle9419 votes

I agree. +1 from me.

It's very frustrating to see how Meddler and Reav3 constantly ignore the champions that actually need work and give it to others who already have had WAY too much. Then when they finally do get to one (Galio, for example), they completely ruin it for the mains who enjoyed the champ.

Why were these people even hired in the first place? I honestly don't get it.

Deathfall6 votes

{quoted}

I agree. +1 from me.

It's very frustrating to see how Meddler and Reav3 constantly ignore the champions that actually need work and give it to others who already have had WAY too much. Then when they finally do get to one (Galio, for example), they completely ruin it for the mains who enjoyed the champ.

Why were these people even hired in the first place? I honestly don't get it.

Yeah, I agree with you. I wish they would work on controversial champions Riot knows the community doesn't like. I mean, they did it with Aatrox for how many years and months? They still didn't get it right because the major problem is that the content creators are changing the champions too much and not keeping what is actually liked about them. Karma's fans and and shield bomb are brought up in mostly ever conversation, yet she still doesn't have either of them and sits in the same pathetic state for 5 years now. The same will probably be the case for Galio and he has it worse because he is modernized in terms of art compared to Karma.

mikemcparty2 votes

{quoted}

I agree. +1 from me.

It's very frustrating to see how Meddler and Reav3 constantly ignore the champions that actually need work and give it to others who already have had WAY too much. Then when they finally do get to one (Galio, for example), they completely ruin it for the mains who enjoyed the champ.

Why were these people even hired in the first place? I honestly don't get it.

I actually enjoy galio though. His previous kit felt much too linear in my opinion. Build a shit ton of MR and succeed. I feel that he has some more options now.

SnugglePuggle942 votes

His MR passive made him unique as the anti-mage. Now he doesn't even have that, and the current anti-mage is Kassadin.

He has less options really. They took out our favorite spells and made him a tank with no identity. Old Galio was way better.

mikemcparty2 votes

{quoted}

His MR passive made him unique as the anti-mage. Now he doesn't even have that, and the current anti-mage is Kassadin.

He has less options really. They took out our favorite spells and made him a tank with no identity. Old Galio was way better.

I wouldn't use blanket statements, like "our favorite spells." His old E was essentially pointless. He was basically a flashing ult. prior to his rework that would be picked in unique situations (countering old dfg LB, Veigar, or any other bursty mage. He currently can be played in more roles than pre-rework and still can serve as a check to mages. Still has his taunt and his new ult is better thematically imo.

SnugglePuggle942 votes

To his mains, and dedicated playerbase, his E was fun and unique.

Annie is a flashing ult. Who cares if he was before. It's what makes him fun and unique just like Annie.

His taunt now is a horrible version of his old ult and barely does any damage. Slows him down and gives him a crap shield.

New ult is horrible. Can only ult allies, and damage reduction is minimal.

He was played in many roles before. Now he's just a boring tank with no identity.

mikemcparty1 votes

{quoted}

To his mains, and dedicated playerbase, his E was fun and unique.

Annie is a flashing ult. Who cares if he was before. It's what makes him fun and unique just like Annie.

His taunt now is a horrible version of his old ult and barely does any damage. Slows him down and gives him a crap shield.

New ult is horrible. Can only ult allies, and damage reduction is minimal.

He was played in many roles before. Now he's just a boring tank with no identity.

I played him almost exclusively through the end of s2 and s3. I would consider myself part of his player base. His E was a joke, imo. If you think he was played in many roles before, then I am under the assumption that you never actually played him. He could not play jg, and was completely situational top lane as most of the top laners were ad at the time. Being a flashing ult is not fun... Especially when the majority of the kit is dull and boring.

Sexy Jack Rabbit10 votes

I don't understand why Lissandra needs Visual Work?

Visually she's fine. She's modern and has good texture and model work. There's nothing wrong with her. She has fully unique animations completely kit wide. She even has a better VO then a big portion of champions.

Kitwise she's already been confirmed for changes too.

Deathfall2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sexy Jack Rabbit,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbAt7AJB,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-09-24T23:43:03.460+0000)

I don't understand why Lissandra needs Visual Work?

Visually she's fine. She's modern and has good texture and model work. There's nothing wrong with her. She has fully unique animations completely kit wide. She even has a better VO then a big portion of champions.

Kitwise she's already been confirmed for changes too.

I wasn't really saying she needed a visual update or anything. She could use more VO to go along with her interactions with Nunu and other champions . . . if they are going to make her such a prominent figure in their stories. Her new passive is getting visual update. We just need to see something because it has been . . . wait a few months now and still nothing?

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

Meddler has already confirmed we'll be seeing the new passive in 8.20

As for VO yeah sure it would always be nice, but VO are amongst the hardest things for Riot to do in the end. I can get wanting more VO for her, but I feel that just applies to every champion

Deathfall2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sexy Jack Rabbit,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbAt7AJB,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-09-24T23:50:43.273+0000)

Meddler has already confirmed we'll be seeing the new passive in 8.20

As for VO yeah sure it would always be nice, but VO are amongst the hardest things for Riot to do in the end. I can get wanting more VO for her, but I feel that just applies to every champion

It's not as hard as you think. There is just no cost gain with doing it if they make no profit off of it. Lissandra will never get a VO until she needs a VGU.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

They need to make a new VO for over 8 langauges.

That's expensive and not simple to do considering the amount of VA's that need to be hired and scripts that need to be written due to each line not landing the same in each language.

You, like a lot of other people, do not understand the process and resources that go into things like VO's. They're not simple to do and never have been. It's not always about profit, if it were, the game would be very different.

atlıkarınca1 votes

When did Meddler confirm this? I don't know why, but he's working very slowly, he's got a pretext! Very boring.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

Gameplay thoughts comment section.

BadPiriPiri3 votes

They didn't wanted to release it before worlds. She could end up too strong.

ZeroAgainst1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sexy Jack Rabbit,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbAt7AJB,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-09-24T23:43:03.460+0000)

I don't understand why Lissandra needs Visual Work?

Visually she's fine. She's modern and has good texture and model work. There's nothing wrong with her. She has fully unique animations completely kit wide. She even has a better VO then a big portion of champions.

Kitwise she's already been confirmed for changes too.

she getting aatroxed fam

IxtaliKing6 votes

Yeah I see where you're coming from. NeuroCat is working closely with Karma mains to get her kit together, but she's limited as to what she can do in terms of art because she's not an artist/animator.

One of the Karma community's biggest complaints that pretty much everyone can agree on is that she needs a full suite of animations:

  • Shield animation - one that won't look awkward when she's moving.
  • Running animation - honestly, "Rito pls..."
  • Improved W cast animation - she puts her hands out and a tether just appears from her torso; it looks lazy as hell.

Of course in the end we have to just live with whatever they decide to do, but this upcoming update would be the perfect opportunity for Riot to actually put some effort into Karma.

Deathfall2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah I see where you're coming from. NeuroCat is working closely with Karma mains to get her kit together, but she's limited as to what she can do in terms of art because she's not an artist/animator.

One of the Karma community's biggest complaints that pretty much everyone can agree on is that she needs a full suite of animations:

  • Shield animation - one that won't look awkward when she's moving.
  • Running animation - honestly, "Rito pls..."
  • Improved W cast animation - she puts her hands out and a tether just appears from her torso; it looks lazy as hell.

Of course in the end we have to just live with whatever they decide to do, but this upcoming update would be the perfect opportunity for Riot to actually put some effort into Karma.

I honestly don't think that is going to happen. Riot NeuroCat said she looked into major changes with Karma and even new abilities, which didn't work out apparently. It's probably the same animations and graphics but the abilities are tweaked slightly. I don't think the work is going to be as good as a lot of you think it is. I hate to be a Debbie Downer but it's just what is it at this point. I bet Meddler said no to a lot of things and NeuroCat is stuck working with what she has on Karma right now. I just don't want people to be blaming her for Meddler's and Reav3s mistakes and choices. The decision to ignore Karma, not communicate about Karma, and work on Karma for the past 5 years falls on Meddler and Reav3s only. Riot NeuroCat did tell us she asked Meddler for a little help, but knowing Meddler he probably said no just because it is Karma.

I just don't want the community to blame one Developer who is actually trying and communicating with us, when the problems with Karma is Meddler and Reav3s fault.

IxtaliKing1 votes

To be honest, my estimations for the rework went down massively when i found out ground targeting RQ was off the table. I doubt they'll even let us set where RQ detonates like Shyvanna's Dragon form E.

NC will probably get support with animations and stuff, but we don't know how much. We can safely assume it won't be enough compared to what most of us think she needs.

I don't think you're a Debbie Downer at all, you're being realistic. The less you expect the less likely you are to be disappointed.

Deathfall1 votes

{quoted}

To be honest, my estimations for the rework went down massively when i found out ground targeting RQ was off the table. I doubt they'll even let us set where RQ detonates like Shyvanna's Dragon form E.

NC will probably get support with animations and stuff, but we don't know how much. We can safely assume it won't be enough compared to what most of us think she needs.

I don't think you're a Debbie Downer at all, you're being realistic. The less you expect the less likely you are to be disappointed.

Oh wow, I didn't even know Ground Targeted RQ was off the table. Did she announce that somewhere? Unless it is a completely new RQ, it's basically going to have nothing done to it.

IxtaliKing1 votes

I asked NC directly and she said she's not a fan of switching inputs. She said Q would need to be ground targeted. Silver Squid and I argued against that of course (as we do lol), but it was just left at that. That was the only thing stated against it. I also suggested that we at least get to place RQ where we want it whilst still being body blockable, but we'll see what happens.

I'm guessing you're not on Discord...? If not, please join, NC is pretty active there.

Hammermancer4 votes

Corki Ivern Karma RekSai Volibear Zilean don't exist, stop trying to make them exist

Deathfall10 votes

[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbAt7AJB,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-09-25T00:41:39.709+0000)

Corki Ivern Karma RekSai Volibear Zilean don't exist, stop trying to make them exist

So you don't think that is a problem? You feel that the players that like these champions and want to play them, should be ignored so champions like Ahri, Lux, Ryze, Ezreal, Jinx, Jhin . . . . and the same champions . . . . . . can get special treatment every single year? You are a smart one. If a champion has a low win and play rate, that is the Developers problem.

Indifferent1 votes

I agree with most of what’s your saying, but I wouldn’t lump ryze in with the others mentioned. Ryze is different from the other mentioned champions because instead of being showered in skins and chromas and buffs he just gets beaten to shit. I understand how you say he gets special treatment because he’s constantly being changed but could you really consider only nerfs and reworks special treatment? All of these champions may be niche to say the least but at least they don’t get gutted every patch because they are Strong in the lowest percentage of the player base!

Sorry if I went off the handle a bit, I just really like ryze and I hate him being lumped into groups with Ezreal and Ahri. In conclusion, yes sure ryze gets a lot of attention, but not because he’s popular or has a demanding fan base, but more along the lines of “riot ruined me and won’t fix me because they already tried and failed.”

Moving back to the conversation I do agree with you, when I saw that Yasuo had a new skin for the oddessey event I groaned. He got a skin in the last versus event which was little over a year ago and didn’t need another one. Whereas my man zilean (ex zilean main, still play him though) hasn’t gotten a new skin since... like blood moon, years ago. I only really have experience with zilean but the way these I think these champs work is that with the right item buff or meta they can rise to dominance (except ivern, tree dudes weird) which I think is why they don’t get gameplay or visual updates. Also they don’t really have the strongest player bases which is an impact on riots urgency to update them. I do think that they need Vgus or something but I wouldn’t really list them As urgent. (Maybe a biased because I think that instead of pandering to fanbases they should instead fix current problems RIOT! Ahem, ahem ryze, irelia, zoe) But then again, what do I know since they just announced an ezreal Vgu. A champion with one of the highest play rates and fairly decent wins rates. Whatever, I’m done.

Deathfall1 votes

{quoted}

I agree with most of what’s your saying, but I wouldn’t lump ryze in with the others mentioned. Ryze is different from the other mentioned champions because instead of being showered in skins and chromas and buffs he just gets beaten to shit. I understand how you say he gets special treatment because he’s constantly being changed but could you really consider only nerfs and reworks special treatment? All of these champions may be niche to say the least but at least they don’t get gutted every patch because they are Strong in the lowest percentage of the player base!

Sorry if I went off the handle a bit, I just really like ryze and I hate him being lumped into groups with Ezreal and Ahri. In conclusion, yes sure ryze gets a lot of attention, but not because he’s popular or has a demanding fan base, but more along the lines of “riot ruined me and won’t fix me because they already tried and failed.”

Moving back to the conversation I do agree with you, when I saw that Yasuo had a new skin for the oddessey event I groaned. He got a skin in the last versus event which was little over a year ago and didn’t need another one. Whereas my man zilean (ex zilean main, still play him though) hasn’t gotten a new skin since... like blood moon, years ago. I only really have experience with zilean but the way these I think these champs work is that with the right item buff or meta they can rise to dominance (except ivern, tree dudes weird) which I think is why they don’t get gameplay or visual updates. Also they don’t really have the strongest player bases which is an impact on riots urgency to update them. I do think that they need Vgus or something but I wouldn’t really list them As urgent. (Maybe a biased because I think that instead of pandering to fanbases they should instead fix current problems RIOT! Ahem, ahem ryze, irelia, zoe) But then again, what do I know since they just announced an ezreal Vgu. A champion with one of the highest play rates and fairly decent wins rates. Whatever, I’m done.

I wouldn't say the community likes him at all. I would say Riot likes him a lot and is constantly trying to make a character, theme and kit work that just isn't working. No matter what they have done to Ryze, it has never been well received. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the higher ups were making them work on him, since on of their names is based off of the character. I mean, they worked on Ryze that many times and did it to correct mistakes but where is that for Skarner, Morde, Karma, Shen, Malzahar, and so many other champions that are constantly ignored by this Development team? It's on champions like Ryze, Ahri, Lux, Jinx, and so many others that are just the apple of this company's eye.

Yordle Xayah4 votes

Even if Meddler isn't the single one individual responsible for the state of the game (and some characters) and I wouldn't put the blame just on him, it's still all happening under his watch. He either doesn't notice, or doesn't care to do some things that go beyond common Boards complaints, but that echo across the entire community.

I lost hope a while ago. It's like riding a train without breaks, and I've resigned.

EasternBladeStar4 votes

but they didn't have the money and resources to ever work on her.

Small indie company btw.

Biscuit Bite1 votes

The thing is, they don't share everything they are working on. You have no idea how many things they have in store. But they try to not leak things since you know, not all goes live.

Deathfall1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Biscuit Bite,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbAt7AJB,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2018-09-25T12:49:29.344+0000)

The thing is, they don't share everything they are working on. You have no idea how many things they have in store. But they try to not leak things since you know, not all goes live.

Nothing noteworthy is being done behind the scenes. Karma isn't getting a skin anytime soon, she isn't getting the work necessary to make her an interesting champion, and the higher-ups like Meddler and Reav3s are not interested in allowing anyone actually work on Karma outside of a kit that hasn't been working for years now. I bet there are actual employees that care about these champions, but because of Game Devs like Meddler and Reav3s they will never get anything.

rtbf360834621 votes

[deleted]

Frosted Tips8 votes

Did you ever play her before her Rework? She was so unique and ahead of her time. She had so many different ways to deal with situations. She had fans. It was lit. But all of it ended when Riot games attack.

rtbf360834624 votes

Old karma:

Passive: Stats

Q: boring ass damage cone. bUt It HeAlS yOu SoMeTiMeS

W: Some weird movement/damage thing

E: Shield. Sometimes does AOE damage. I’m impressed.

R:

Wow. So ahead of the times.

Frosted Tips6 votes

Passive: AP based around your hp so that you would get stronger the lower your health pool got: great risk vs reward abilit, but also the only ability I believe should have been removed.

Q: Short range cone damage that healed when you used mantra. But it could really do alot when you deal damage and heal your team in a close ranged combat.

W: MS buff or a slow and also did one of the highest tick rate damage abilities if someone was caught on the tether animation. Insanely unique ability that would force you to try to position to get use out of the damage.

E: Sheild that had an insane scaling and if mantra was used did a giant Ziggs ult around the shielded target that was instant damage.

Mantra: two charges and made your abilities do some wild stuff.

This champion had so much thought about how she could build and position and now she is just some slow and sheild bot.

rtbf360834624 votes

[deleted]

Frosted Tips5 votes

So you are either a troll , bad at the game, or played her when you were new.

rtbf360834624 votes

Ah no point to make and you instead use nothing but an indistinct insult.

I accept your surrender.

Frosted Tips4 votes

I could make the same "arguments" you made and no one could win because you are dumbing everything down. Name a champion you think is unique and I will do what you just did.

rtbf360834622 votes

Oooh dodging AGAIN. But I’ll indulge you.

Tahm Kench.

Frosted Tips5 votes

Passive: Wow damage and 3 hit passive so original

Q: skill shot single target slow wow sometimes stuns

W: crucible sometimes damage

E: sheild or health regen cool

R: wow a teleport not like we have a summoner for that.

rtbf360834621 votes

Lol, I knew you were too stupid to think critically.

Think about it.

  • A support who can destroy 80% of the champs in the game, but only if he’s in melee range

  • A support who has to CC his own ADC to peel for them. Has almost no real poke.

  • A tank with almost only delayed single target CC

  • No mobility. His ult is useless in combat. He can’t do anything against poke.

So why is this support still viable?

Passive) How do you make it so that this SUPPORT can destroy anyone at melee range without being completely broken? 3 hit passive. If they don’t have 3 stacks, they can still escape. If they do get 3 stacks, they’re going to get permastunned and smashed by a full tank.

Q) Boring, but he’s already complicated enough.

W) Even if TK is getting poked or outrun. He can still do SOMETHING useful, unlike Garen/Illaoi/Skarner. Has special synergies with some champs. Also let’s him destroy anyone if he can get in range. Also has unique counterplay, like slowing him when he tries to get close to/run away with units inside him and forcing him to stay very close to his allies, where you can see him. Trolls enemies and tilts them.

E) The healing lets him troll enemies into thinking he is more hurt than he actually is, which he can use to turn and trap them once they’re close enough. The shield is useless against poke, but once he’s on top of your adc/mid, this spell gives him enough time to destroy them, even if he’s getting focused by their whole team. Also protects him after eating his own adc.

R) Use this to bring an ally to a fight to disrupt the enemy from a weird. Destroy their squishies while they’re too busy dealing with your ally.

What other Champion plays like Tahm Kench? The “Support”

Frosted Tips4 votes

All I got from that is exactly what I said before. He is boring and simple.

Arakadia4 votes

You can break down any kit into something so simple and primitive as your communication skills. Your argument is weak.

rtbf360834622 votes

Lol, care to explain what’s so complex about your precious Karma? I swear there’s like 50 other mobile knockoff characters just like her

Arakadia4 votes

First off, my point was not that Karma was complicated. Quality of champion design is not based off how complicated the champion is. Tagging 100 cluttered complex features to your kit does not make it good.

Second, my point was that you can describe LITERALLY ANY DESIGN the way you did and it will sound boring, simple, or bad.

rtbf360834622 votes

My fucking god

Look at poppy, Taric, ww, ivern, pyke, Darius, xayah, rakan, Braum, urgot, jhin

None of them are that hard to understand.

BUT THEYRE ALL VERY UNIQUE AND HAVE PLAYSTYLES THAT DIFFER FROM OTHER CHAMPS IN THEIR CLASS

Karma on the other hand, with her stale heal/shield, aoe damage, and move speed buff?

I’m sorry, but those qualities can ALL be found in pretty every “supporty mage” in every game ever. Her gameplay design at its core is extremely generic. Depending on her numbers, she nothing but a Janna/Sona knockoff.

Arakadia1 votes

You just argued that complexity is good design but now your listing examples of non-complex champions that are well designed? Are you arguing with me or yourself?

I’m sorry, but those qualities can ALL be found in pretty every “supporty mage” in every game ever. Her gameplay design at its core is extremely generic. Depending on her numbers, she nothing but a Janna/Sona knockoff.

I do agree.

I don't agree with listing out her kit in the most cave-man of ways and using that as an argument.

rtbf360834622 votes

Sigh

These kits all APPEAR simple on the surface, especially so idiots like you won’t cry about league being too complex, but underneath, they have significantly more depth and turn out that while they don’t look very interesting initially, they all turn out to do things that no other champions are capable of doing, since these differences are mechanics based, rather than numbers based (unlike old Karma)

No matter how you look at her, old Karma pretty much plays out like any generic moba support/mage, just with slightly different stats and cooldowns. Other than her w, but even then that was nothing but applying damage/slow/speed up in a a way slightly different than a generic circle aoe

Arakadia2 votes

Your just insulting despite the apparent fact that I agree with what you've been repeating.

You clearly didn't even read my post considering that I recognized Karma's lack of a niche. My criticism is that your original argument was terrible and a design's validity is unrelated to how flashy or complex it is.

If you don't understand that then I guess you have bigger issues then previous suspected.

rtbf360834621 votes

????

Why do you consider not complex, non unique, and unimaginative champs to be “valid”? Do you think that a champ that’s nothing but a vague, inferior clone compared to other champs IN THE SAME GAME is anything “valid”?

Leetri2 votes

No one played Karma before her rework. She's the only champion in the history of the game that I literally never ever saw in game despite playing a ton during early S2. She was ridiculously unpopular outside of the few mains she had.

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