Rate a champion with this system, then explain what you would change to buff or nerf that champion!

k wìx··6 votes·1,813 views

Okay Summoners - Using this system, rate a champion that you think is busted, and then explain what you would change to bring him or her more in line with the other champions on the rift. This keeps things simple and elegant. Rather than saying 'Id nerf Lee Sins Q damage by XXX' ... you can more easily say 'lets take Lee's damage from a 3 down to a 2.' or something like that.

Damage Output (1 to 10) Essentially the relative damage output the champion has. Extremely-burst oriented champions, like assassins would be the highest rated.

Anti-Damage Output (1 to 10) Heals, shielding, anything that stops someone from placing damage on a target should go here.

Crowd Control (1 to 10) Pretty obvious, but anything that disables or slows a champion in some way.

Survivability (1 to 10) The relative tankiness of a given champion. Anyone who is difficult to kill.

Mobility (1 to 10) How much mobility is built into a kit of a champion. Someone like Nidalee or Lee Sin would be pretty high, where as someone like Ashe or Xerath would be very low.

Scaling Potential (1 to 10) How powerful the champion can become at endgame. Champions who taper off or lose impact towards the end of the game would be rated low, where as champions who can get super insane towards endgame would be rated highly.

I'll start: Ashe 7 - Damage Output 1 - Anti-Damage Output 5 - Crowd Control 2 - Survivability 2 - Mobility 8 - Scaling Potential

I think ashe is in a bit of a rough spot in the current meta and gamestate. We have plenty of Mobile ADCs, so I'd bump her survivability up a bit to make her a better duelist.

47 Comments

DropFill5 votes

Riven Damage output- 9.5 Anti-damage output - 7 CC - 6 Survivability - 6 mobility - 9 Scaling potential - 8

I would increase her CD's and nerf her shield ad ratio.

BobbyCarHaterX2 votes

{quoted}

Riven Damage output- 9.5 Anti-damage output - 7 CC - 6 Survivability - 6 mobility - 9 Scaling potential - 8

Well this is the ultimate prove that Riven is broken, lol

Dreadlocks1 votes

CC 6? maybe 7.5 ? XD W stun 3rd Q knock up (ignoring tenacity) both aoe. -Heart Riven- =]

ScreamPaste1 votes

This guy can't even go into threads not about Riven without QQing about Riven.

"I'm going to overrate her damage and mobility and then suggest gutting her, despite having no actual reason to believe she's too strong"

item 3070

DropFill1 votes

{quoted}

This guy can't even go into threads not about Riven without QQing about Riven.

"I'm going to overrate her damage and mobility and then suggest gutting her, despite having no actual reason to believe she's too strong"

item 3070

You just said I have no actual reason. They say about her damage and mobility. Exactly my problem with her. If you want to maintain both, she needs some CD increases.

ScreamPaste2 votes

Except that she doesn't. Particularly early game her CDs are pretty long and she's completely helpless without them, increasing her cool downs would make her worthless, and she's already never picked in professional play.

If there was any actual reason to think Riven is too strong the professional players, whose livelihood is this game, and who make money based on their performance, would use her. She's simply too easy to shut down to be viable outside of solo queue, where she's an average win rate champion. Your problem with her has nothing to do with balance or her strength, I've pointed out where you're wrong about her before, your problem with her seems to be a personal one because even after being corrected you persist with misinformation.

Edit: out for the night. Happy St Patrick's.

DropFill2 votes

{quoted}

Except that she doesn't. Particularly early game her CDs are pretty long and she's completely helpless without them, increasing her cool downs would make her worthless, and she's already never picked in professional play.

If there was any actual reason to think Riven is too strong the professional players, whose livelihood is this game, and who make money based on their performance, would use her. She's simply too easy to shut down to be viable outside of solo queue, where she's an average win rate champion. Your problem with her has nothing to do with balance or her strength, I've pointed out where you're wrong about her before, your problem with her seems to be a personal one because even after being corrected you persist with misinformation.

Edit: out for the night. Happy St Patrick's.

Could say the same thing about fiora, but the community says the is OP and stuff. Fiora has never seen competitive play, and got nerfed. Why not riven so?

ScreamPaste2 votes

{quoted}

Could say the same thing about fiora, but the community says the is OP and stuff. Fiora has never seen competitive play, and got nerfed. Why not riven so?

I've got 15 minutes, so I'll give them to you.

http://lol.gamepedia.com/Riven_-_The_Exile http://lol.gamepedia.com/Fiora_-_The_Grand_Duelist

Fiora actually has seen about the same amount of competitive play as Riven, a bit less, but about the same. Both have abominable professional win rates.

And the answer is simple, Riven has already been nerfed. In the exact same patch as Fiora, in fact, lol. Their most recent nerfs were both in patch 4.20. Both are in a good place right now, and strong solo queue picks that have high risk for good pay off, with Fiora skewing the scale more in the reward pay off due to how her kit works and scales.

My question then, as a Riven player, who is countered by Fiora, why nerf either? If you start messing with checks and balances in a system that mostly works (excluding when people take things like Vayne top, RIP bruisers) you tip the balance.

Without strong checks to her laning phase like Pantheon, Renekton, Darius, Fiora, Morde, Teemo, Garen, Quinn, Irelia, etc, Riven might become too strong in the mid game. Right now, though, that isn't the case.

I'd like to understand what it is about Riven that you think is wrong? I've looked over Zileas list of antipatterns many times to try to figure out the anti-Riven cult that exists, and she follows none of them, the only one that could even apply is burden of knowledge, and that can be sorted out pretty easily.

My best guess honestly, is just that Riven is very popular and that the cult of Riven players and mains has its own hatedom, rather than their being anything mechanically wrong with Riven herself.

Shaco Happy St Patrick's, outtie for real.

TomA3X2 votes

I think a 6 on survivability is quite strong, i'd give her a 4. Sure she has the shield, but thats it, she's very vulnerable to getting poked out of lane.

DoomsdayFo3 votes

Leona DAMAGE OUT PUT: 4 ANTI-DAMAGE OUTPUT: 3 (has shield for herself, about it) CROWD CONTROL: 8 SURVIVABILITY: 7 MOBILITY: 3 SCALING POTENTIAL: 5

I would say to nerf her CC out put to like a 6 but then compensate for that by moving her anti damage output to about a 5 or 6 by making to where maybe the shield offer half of its protection to nearby allies up to 400 units away

AnOstrichWithPMS2 votes

Veigar

damage output-0 anti damage output- 0 cc-0 survivability -1 mobility -1 scaling potential 10

I would remove from game

k wìx1 votes

Haha! The nerfs hit him pretty hard this season, but i've seen him still do alright. I'll be super curious to see what happens with him over the next few months!

HeadHonchkrow1 votes

You have so much hope in riot, i lost all hope 2 patches ago, just saying

ActuallyArrow2 votes

Teemo 10 - Damage Output 10 - Anti-Damage Output 10 - Crowd Control 10 - Survivability 10 - Mobility 10 - Scaling Potential

I would buff him so that he could become the ultimate Super-Saiyan Yordle, and rule all the land!

IcyPepper4 votes

666 - Damage Output 666 - Anti-Damage Output 666 - Crowd Control 666 - Survivability 666 - Mobility 666 - Scaling Potential

.

Fixed it for you.

Drackolus2 votes

Soraka Damage Output: 1 Yeah, she CAN do damage... but not on support income! Since you've only got two spells that deal only a small amount of damage, you need a -ton- of items to get anything out of them... which you probably can't afford if you're bot lane. Anti-Damage Output: 8 It's good. It's not Mundo level to be honest, though she can put it on a lot of people. Crowd Control: 4 A somewhat difficult to land slow, an easy silence (which is meh) followed by a snare that you'll likely only land if you follow up someone else's cc. Probably one of the lowest among supports. Survivability: 2 HAH. Considering her poor cc and spending up to 10% of her max health every 1.2 seconds, she will likely go down if focused. Especially since building health kind of hurts you as much as it helps you. Mobility: 3-4 Sloooow without passive, especially considering she has to get so close to her target. Scaling Potential: 2-6 Really depends. If you can buy a ton of ap, she will use it to great potential. All four of her abilities have a way to increase their effectiveness - q can hit center, w (passive) for being low health/hitting multiple targets, e for landing both the start and end of the spell, and r for hitting allies.

Honestly, the only way to buff her is to buff support income. When you get 2/3 the income of the other four members of your team AND are forced to buy a utility item for gold income and dump 800g on a item that only gives you 150 health, you don't get to scale.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Katarina

10 - Damage Output 3 - Anti-Damage Output 4 - Crowd Control (Arn't you scared? okay crowd = controlled) 7 - Survivability 7 - Mobility 10- Scaling Potential

Cassiopeia 7.5 - Damage Output 3 - Anti-Damage Output 8 - Crowd Control 5 - Survivability 2 - Mobility 10- Scaling Potential

Zed 9.5- Damage Output 2 - Anti-Damage Output 6.5 - Crowd Control 8.5 - Survivability 8.5 - Mobility 9.5 - Scaling Potential

LeeSin 6.5 - Damage Output - 9.5 ||| Left = tanky 8 - Anti-Damage Output - 3 ||| right = full deeps 8 - Crowd Control - 8 8.5 - Survivability - 7 9 - Mobility - 9 7.5 - Scaling Potential - 5

k wìx2 votes

Your Zed and Lee Sin Numbers are a bit high, in my humble opinion - that being said, I Agree that they are probably in a really strong spot right now and may need to be looked at for some very minor nerfs. Also, I don't think Kat has any way to crowd control anyone, she's just all insane burst.

Dreadlocks1 votes

My post was somewhat of a joke :) Lee = my main (luv'em) Zed = 1 of the most hated champs atm and Kat/Cassio are my 2 most hated :)

Orbv1 votes

Gragas

8 - Damage Output 4 - Anti-Damage Output 10 - Crowd Control 8 - Survivability 7 - Mobility 6- Scaling Potential

AoE Stun, AoE Slow, AoE Devastating Knockback, that's a lot. Only downside, how do you build him out? Tanky or AP? Building a little of both makes his Q and R weak. So he is really used for his CC, 10

Pastramka1 votes

dont touch me gragy!

k wìx1 votes

Gragus has some fantastic crowd control, but its finicky and hard to use effectively. I wouldn't call it a 10. More like an 8 or so. I really hope we start to see him in the support role over this season.

Orbv1 votes

I completely agree. I would love to see him support. I've seen Mao'kai and Sejuani do it, when they're much better elsewhere. So it just seems right.

Battleforge4Life1 votes

Annie 8 - Damage Output 3 - Anti-Damage Output 6 - Crowd Control 2 - Survivability 1 - Mobility 8 - Scaling Potential

I guess balanced? I rated CC as a 6 since champs like Riven have 2 disables (some champs have 3).

k wìx1 votes

This feels correct for the most part. I'd also say that Annie is fairly balanced, on the higher end of the scales right now, I feel like she's maybe just the slightest bit too bursty for her own good IF she gets fed. If she pulls ahead even a little bit, it gets oppressive quick.

Meep Man1 votes

Bard 1- Damage Output 9- Anti-Damage Potential 7- Crowd Control 4.5- Survivability 7- Mobility 3- Scaling Potential

Rammus 6.5- Damage Potential 4- Anti-Damage Potential 6.5- Crowd Control 9- Survivability 7.5- Mobility 7- Scaling Potential

Yorick 3.5- Damage Potential 4- Anti-Damage Potential 3- Crowd Control 9.5- Survivability 2.5- Mobility 3.5- Scaling Potential

Basically, YORICK SUCKS, according to this scale. The only thing hes good at is NOT DYING! I would rework him!

Also, IMO, the ultimate for each one is...

Twitch - Damage Potential Some people would say Katarina, but then you realize Twitch can critical strike for over 800 damage about twice every second in a line.

Soraka - Anti-Damage Potential Heal there, silence them, heal heal heal.

Nautilus - Crowd Control 2.5 second stun, 1.5 second root, a pull, and constant AoE slow. Can't ask for more.

Zac - Survivability He has a lot of regeneration and a revive passive. He may not be all that powerful, but DANG a good Zac is hard to kill.

Kassadin - Mobility He's Kassadin.

Nasus and KogMaw - Scaling Potential Infinite damage and the ultimate late game carry.

k wìx1 votes

Good post! The problem with Yorick is that it's very hard to decide what to build on him because he's literally all over the board, and not in a good way. You want mana because he goes oom fast, you want health because yes. You want CDR because of his awesome ult, you want Attack Damage because of his ghouls, you want AP because of his massive AoE Slow ghoul.. you want everything. It's hard to figure out how to build him, and nothing FEELS right because your always sacrificing one of your abilities.

Hard4Hamsters2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ppzEzE8O,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-03-17T15:45:50.283+0000)

Yorick 3.5- Damage Potential

Damn dude you don't give him enough credit. He can deal out much more damage than that, granted you need the items to do it.

goldensilver091 votes

Yorick it's self alone Sucks, but with ghouls... Spooky.

HeadHonchkrow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ppzEzE8O,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-03-17T15:45:50.283+0000) Kassadin - Mobility He's Kassadin.

Not anymore

taleofsonata1 votes

Leblanc Damage output - 10 Anti-damage output - 1 CC - 5 Survivability - 1 Mobility - 10 Scaling potential - 10

k wìx2 votes

Yea, hard to answer if she's balanced or not, but this feels accurate. I feel like If i was going to nerf anything, it'd be either her scaling or damage output. I love her mobility and that feels like the basis of her kit.

M0RDEKA1SER1 votes

Udyr

7 - Damage Output

4 - Anti-Damage Output (was going to put a 3, but the fact that he has a shield and a little bit of lifesteal boosted it a little bit.)

2 - Crowd Control

7 - Survivability

6 - Mobility

9 - Scaling Potential

Udyr is great when (IF) he can close in on his target. He is incredibly susceptible to CC and doesn't have a lot of great CC himself. To put him on par with all the new high mobility champs coming out now, he needs more than a speed boost. He needs either a dash or a passive that works like, and stacks with Tenacity.

k wìx1 votes

He's in a decent spot, I feel like he has a 'high low' problem where if he's fed, he's a bit too oppressive, and if he has a 'poor' game, he becomes completely useless. Needs to be some inbetween fixes.

M0RDEKA1SER1 votes

Hence the 9 on scaling potential. I'd be perfectly okay with dropping that to a 7 if I could just get some resistance to CC. I can always build boots to get better mobility and chase down an ADC, but when I get hit by Ashe once and it's GG... That sucks.

Chaotic Reks1 votes

Xerath Damage output- 9.7 anti-damage output- 1 CC- 4 Survivability- 2 Mobility- 0 Scaling potential- 8.5 Leave him as he his, maybe give him displacement immunity on his ult

k wìx1 votes

I don't think he scales as hard as some of the other ADCs out there, but yea - he's pretty solid right now, I feel like he pays for his poke with the mobility.

Chaotic Reks1 votes

changed the scaling from 10 to 8.5

CrossXxodia1 votes

Gangplank

Damage Output - 5

Really depends on who he's fighting. Even his more tanky builds perform pretty well against squishier targets, but he's one of the last people I'd pick to take down tanks.

Anti-Damage Output - 1

He has none. I thought about giving him a zero here.

Crowd Control - 2

Two weak slows. And I do mean weak. I almost thought about giving him a one here.

Survivability - LANE: 8-10 SMALL FIGHTS: 5-7 FIVE ON FIVE: 2-4

How well Pirate can survive depends on the stage of the game. He should pretty much never die in lane, ever; his W is just too good. He can hold his own in small skirmishes. 5v5 fights do not play to his strengths at all. It should be noted that my ratings are variable depending on how Gangplank builds in any particular instance and who he is fighting.

Mobility - 5

No blinks, but his E lets him run really fast all the time. He can activate it to run even faster, and usually buys items that grant even more movement speed.

Scaling Potential - 10

A GP that actually manages to get fed and get ahead of the other team can be a true terror. His problem is getting to that point. Gangplank is the "all-in" of League of Legends; you play him when you're confident that you can win your matchup and demoralize the enemy team with your rapid power spikes.

How would I change him?

No amount of number tweaks can change the fact that his kit is outdated and... a bit clunky to use. Cast times on every skill, high mana costs, high cooldowns, skills that don't really synergize with each other, extremely binary playstyle, poor teamfighting ability... as much as I love League's resident Pirate, he needs a rework. Badly.

Troy2426211 votes

Shaco

9 -Damage Output; If set up properly, he obliterates. He's also omnipresent and can capitalize on opportunities. 3 - Anti-Damage Output; Clone, Decive, Traps to use as escapes, etc. but has no escape if he uses Q to engage. Too situational to be consistent w/ ambush tactics. 4 - Crowd Control; Traps and slows. Highly situational and an immense amount of counterplay. 9 - Mobility; High mana costs and fairly lengthy cooldowns, but an invisibility flash is hard to argue with. 7 - Scaling Potential; Great scaling but horrible mid game. Still extremely hard to carry with on a losing team.

Remove the stupid RNG from E as a QoL until his inevitable E rework.

Cosmic Warper1 votes

Nautilus

Damage Output-6: With his W shield, E spam, and Cinderhulk he can put out a considerable amount of magic damage, but not enough to really nuke someone. Very good in sustained fights with the new E cooldown.

Anti-Damage-2: Very bulky guy with a shield that scales off of his maximum hp. Other than that he has nothing but high base stats and peeling. Can only negate damage on himself really.

Crowd Control- 10: Do i even need to explain? This guy IS CC.

Survivability- 7: Can survive the jungle easily now with E spam and cinderhulk, and in teamfights he just wont die. Late game he becomes an unkillable monster.

Mobility- 2: Very low base MS (325 wtf....). His dredge line is good but it's only used for mobility when you're escaping. Take MS quints on him.

Scaling potential- 7: Is a bit weak in the early game, but by mid-late game he can duel even bruisers (other than jax and trundle) since their damage starts to fall off. Turns into a monster tank with good damage

What would i change on him? His base movement speed needs an increase to around 335 and his dredge line hitbox. It can be really wonky on champs with small hitboxes a lot of the time. Also maybe some mana cost buffs. His E should be reduced to 70 mana at max rank. 80 is a bit too much considering its CD was lowered and that his other abilities don't have low mana costs.

Narasimha1 votes

Mordekaiser

Damage - 8 Anti-Damage Output - 10 Crowd Control - 0 Survivability - 9 Mobility - 2 Scaling Potential - 6

He's not TOO bad, he's just outclassed by pretty much everyone else. He needs atleast one small form of hard cc, a stun if his Q only hits one target.

SmartHenioRzuk1 votes

Nautilus Damage Output: 6 He can 1v1 adc,mid laner, and sometimes even jungler and top laner Anti-Damage Output: 6 800 HP shield Crowd Control: 10 Passive snare, Hook +gap closer, slow, knock-up+stun Survivability: 8 thanks to his shield and Q Mobility: 3 Q Scaling Potential: 5 due to his max hp scaling shield, and nice damage

i think he doesn't need buffs or nerfs, so just rating him

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Hmmm... I'll try:

Karma Damage Output - 6.5 (all focused into her R+Q) Anti-Damage Output - 9 (self-heal and shield) Crowd Control - 5 (unreliable snare, reliable slow) Survivability - 4 (not as squishy as Anivia, but not tanky) Mobility - 4 (speed boost, but no dashes) Scaling Potential - 5 (scales well as a utility mage, scales poorly as a damage mage)

She's in a good spot, but I would buff her snare by making its leash range slightly longer than its initial cast range (think LB's E, or Morg's ult)

windwolf7771 votes

MasterYi 10 - Damage Output: Usually builds full damage and crit, can deal true damage WITH potentially 100% uptime if he gets kills and if he gets stacks with item 3718 or item 3710 will allow him to do even more damage

(0/3/4) - Anti-Damage Output: While meditate does allow him a bit of survivability in both hp, and damage reduction, he never builds ap to use the scaling (aside from maybe a item 3078) and is more often used to reset the AA timer or a Split Second damage reduction if he either can't get to a target to Q. Plus with his Q he can dodge spells or turret shots. (If that doesn't count then a 3, or if you meant for a team member and not themselves then a 0. Yi is a very selfish champ)

(0/1/10)- Crowd Control: His only natural CC, Death, make them b if he didn't get the kill but did enough damage (0 if you mean legit cc, 1 making them b, 10 for killing them

3 - Survivability: No tankiness to his name at all, however, with Meditate reduction for things like Karthus ult or other burst, Q to dodge, he can be a little survivable

5 - Mobility: No mobility on his own except speed, he is able to turn enemy (instant) mobility into his with his Q (instant mobility as in summoner 4 Ezreal leap, Nidalee leap, and Zed shadow hopping

10 - Scaling Potential: Super insane. High ammounts of item 3710 item 3718 stacks, true damage (potentially 2 sources), crits, armor ignoring, high attack speed synergizing with devourer, anditem 3153

Change: Nothing at all. Either a noob stomp champ, or a champ with a very high skill ceiling as cowsep shows, and fun. However, if forced to nerf or buff here's what I would do: BUFF One of: Double strike now 5/4/3 attacks, reduce mana costs/make resourceless, reduce cooldowns, highlander now restores all cooldowns 100%, bring back AP Yi, Double Strike has no reset timer (meaning he can hold onto his double strike), wuju style now has passive armor penetration, wuju no longer stops giving the passive AD while on cd,

NERF One of: Double strike now every 6/5/4 attacks,double strike atack no longer counts the double strike towards the counter, reduce the % scaling on wuju style, Higlander kills or assissts only extend the duration by 2 seconds instead of 4, reduce attack speed/lv, reduce tankiness making him even more paper

EDIT: Somebody tell me if you agree with the stats.

Insanity 1011 votes

Ahri

Damage output - 7

Honestly when compared to other mages/assassins her damage isn't that good. It's not that it's LOW it's just that it's spread out and takes some time and good positioning for her to be able to deal maximum damage. Her full combo can't really 100-0 someone unless she's horrendously fed and it just pales in comparison to the full combos of guys like Velkoz Veigar Leblanc...

Anti-Damage output - 6

She has a decent passive that gives her nice sustain and building spellvamp just causes her to heal almost as much as Vlad.

Crowd control - 6

Charm is one of the best crowd controls in the game, but it is a linear single target high manacost high cooldown ability, so I'm giving her crowd control a 6.

Survivability 1

She is BEYOND squishy and dies almost instantly even if she tries to build somewhat tanky.

Mobility 10

Easily 10, her spammable Q gives her a HUGE movement speed boost and her ulti just adds to that. This mobility makes up for her not so good damage and makes her one of the best duelists in the game in a similar way that Vayne is one of the best duelists, through insane kiting.

Scaling Potential - 6

Ahri isn't really the best late game champion, but her scaling is good enough for her to be considerably relevant later on.

Conclusion:

I think Ahri is generally balanced but a bit on the strong side right now mostly because of the mobility meta. i feel like she might need a slight nerf because of her safety, but that could just be me...

HeadHonchkrow1 votes

Veigar 0 - Damage Output -5 - Anti-Damage Output 0 - Crowd Control -10 - Survivability -10 - Mobility 1 - Scaling Potential There. (yes, I know someone already posted this before, but he made Veigar seem to stronk compared to live)

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