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Tenacity needs to effect Knockups and Pushes. Like Yesterday.

k wìx·2/25/2018, 7:41:21 PM·99 votes·4,734 views

Why is this not a thing? We need to tools to deal with the likes of Alistar.

It doesn't need to be stupid good, but if I'm rocking a lot of Tenacity, I shouldn't be able to just be pushed around.

This offers tremendous opportunity to overhaul knockup and pushback mechanics in league.

Do it.

Edit Getting tons of people asking how it would work, this is what I'd like to see: 1.) Tenacity works on a percentage between 0% and 75% (That's a hard cap. Reducing all CC by 75% should be about as high as you can go ever. Worth noting that league currently does NOT have this cap) 2.) All Tenacity effects should stack multiplicatively. (They currently DO NOT - this would be to help balance extreme scenarios, and make hitting the cap very difficult/impossible.) 2.) All Champions start @ 0% and the percentage goes up based on abilities and items. 3.) In addition to Tenacities current effects, it should impact the duration of Knockups and Pushes. This ratio would be something like 1/3rd of your current Tenacity (so if your Tenacity is @ 50%, Knockups and Displacements would 'move' you 16.6% less.)

Now. To get a scale of how things would work, lets look an extreme circumstance. Mundo stacking as much Tenacity as possible.

Burning Agony (His Flame Aura) gives 30% Tenacity @ max rank Merc Treads give 30% Tenacity Unflinching in resolve gives 20% Tenacity. Legend: Tenacity ALSO gives 20% Tenacity. .7 * .7 * .8 * .8 = .31 or 69% (Just under our cap!)

This means that Mundo would be moved 23% less by Hooks and Displacement effects.

To those of you that would suggest that champions like Blitzcrank or Thresh would be ruined by this change, check this out:

Ever since Ornn came into the game, we have 'Brittle' coded into the system which applies a Tenacity DEBUFF to the target. We could easily apply the same logic to something like Blitzcranks hook to ensure that the target always gets pulled to him. We'd have to come up with a name for the effect, but basically, the INSTANT you get hit by his hook, your Tenacity would be reduced by say..30% for one second.

Thoughts?

69 Comments

Ok sure but why2/25/2018, 9:56:14 PM23 votes

I'm cool with the knock-up part staying unaffected

I just hate how you're still stunned AFTER you land again; especially with Cho'Gath's cancerous Q

Vapor Wave Vibes2/25/2018, 7:54:17 PM20 votes

Don't think you should be able to qss or cleanse it since its supposed to be different from stuns but for knock ups at least tenacity should reduce the duration.

Onotori2/25/2018, 9:50:20 PM19 votes

What we need is diminishing returns. There's a reason every MMO has it.

Ifneth2/25/2018, 9:25:11 PM7 votes

It would break mechanics and animations.

Rakan’s signature ability is a knock up that can affect multiple champions. We can’t just have Garen fall out the bottom.

Chogath knocks enemies up with his rupture and uses the knock-up to time his combos and chain CC.

Taliyah needs consistent knock-ups to push enemies across her unraveled earth or else Mercury’s Treads would just make her irrelevant.

k wìx2/25/2018, 8:31:31 PM7 votes

I can definitely agree with that - qss/cleanse should not be able to stop knockups or knockbacks.

That being said, I still have yet to see anyone against Tenacity affecting them.

Tails90162/25/2018, 9:24:07 PM6 votes

We need Iron boots, like in Legend of Zelda, where it reduces knock backs/ups

Jerry SeinfeId2/25/2018, 11:25:59 PM5 votes

i don't think it's a good idea on displacement, should be on knockups tho.

kurnubego2/26/2018, 3:50:28 PM4 votes

And you base that idea on what exactly? as it appears knock ups are knock ups exactly for the reason that it's different type of cc not being effected by tenacity. Airborne mechanics were added later.

in other words it's not a bug it's a feature.

TyroneWatermelon2/26/2018, 6:20:46 AM4 votes

But then there won’t be a point to have knockup except for the purposes of Yasuo’s ult. It can be replaced with a stun if it will be affected by cc

GrReaper962/26/2018, 1:34:34 AM3 votes

Here's a thought: make displacements only for ult skills. Some special cases do apply (Blitzcrank Q or Alistar W for example) but normal skills like Jayce E or shouldn't be displacements.

Tychusfindlay9182/25/2018, 8:55:23 PM3 votes

I feel like youll completely fuck hooks if this takes effect.

imagine darius pull only nudging people slightly towards him...

Colgate Gator2/26/2018, 6:09:08 PM2 votes

It was fine back in S2 when knockup was a niche CC, but right now a looot of Champions seem to have some form of knock up/back CC, to the point that picking Mercs isn't just "How much CC do they have?" kind of reasoning, but "How much of their CC can Mercs actually affect?" kind of decision. Specially because, unlike Tabi, resistance is a secondary reason to pick Merc boots.

Chembaron Yamada2/25/2018, 10:39:43 PM2 votes

It would require alot of rebalancing. Right now, there are alot of really short knockups and knockbacks in the game and these skills are basically balanced around the fact that they can't get reduced.

They would have to increase the duration of these to not make them completely useless if the enemy has tenacity.

Violet Fields2/25/2018, 10:59:24 PM2 votes

How are you suppose to reduce the duration of a Blitzcrank pull? Do you like, only get pulled half way? If so, there's absolutely no reason to play Blitzcrank then.

Ariel the Cruel2/26/2018, 12:13:00 AM2 votes

I don't think displacement mitigation is the answer. Some champions/abilities rely on the timing consistency.

A better solution would be to reduce the number of unnecessary displacements. A lot of abilities could be changed to stuns with relatively little impact. Aatrox dive bomb Alistar Knock-up (Not knock-back) Blitzcrank Knock-up Braum Ult Chogath Knock-up etc.

Basically anything that doesn't force movement (or context sensitive on the case of Yas ult). Some abilities could justify the knock-up by virtue of power budget (Malphite ult), but it should be made clear that knock-ups come at a cost. I don't blame Riot for leaning on Displacements. It makes balance easier by removing tenacity as a factor. But if a change like this causes Tenacity to break the game, then we have to ask what Tenacity's true roll should be in the modern LoL environment.

warpenguin5552/26/2018, 1:16:01 AM2 votes

It makes no sense for it not to. Tenacity should probably work on everything besides hooks due to how reliant on that ability hook champions can be

AmenPerson2/26/2018, 2:38:40 PM2 votes

Okay, pushbacks, I'd say tenacity should reduce how far pushed back you are.

Knocks up though, tenacity I can't really see affecting. It makes no sense at all.

MujinTengu2/26/2018, 7:39:42 AM1 votes

As I see it, Knockups & Knockbacks should have a lesser effect, logically, on Giant/Big/Beefy Champions.(Alistar/Cho'Gath/Maokai/Malphite etc....) As such, I think that a formula that benefit more tanky champions should have its take, and rightly so.

Another way is to put it as a Mastery in Resolve, something like this:

Non-Ultimate Knockups (Duration) & Knockbacks (Distance) are reduced by 1% (+1% Bonus Health) (+10% Bonus Armor) (+10% Bonus Magic Resist) up to a maximum of 50% Reduction.

Acheron162/25/2018, 11:47:50 PM1 votes

Pulls and pushes shouldnt be affected, but basic knockup effects should be reduced by Tenacity.

These types of CC were given out like candy in order to make each individual champ that has it "have meaningful CC". The problem with that is that if everyone has "meaningful" CC then it simply loses its value, only making those without it weaker.

meowwow72/26/2018, 1:44:54 AM1 votes

and speaking of cc if we ever have item 3222 break displacements and knock ups it should come with a little animation of a grapple hook coming from the caster to pull you back down

Meep Man2/26/2018, 2:40:01 AM1 votes

How would Blitzcrank work with it?