Why does no one talk about nerfing Alistar?

k wìx·Feb 5, 2018·13 votes·2,919 views

I sometimes feel like the only one that thinks Alistar is completely broken. Am I way off the mark here? Thoughts?

Tired of seeing him in darn near every game.

28 Comments

AmetDeCryptFeb 5, 20184 votes

really? the tank with no poke and no self defensive tools outside of his ultimate is op? I dunno he's stupidly easy to poke down and if he goes in you can just back off and wait for him to peter out and become useless after the first 1.2 seconds of combat to beat at him while he's slowly walking away.

k wìxFeb 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

really? the tank with no poke and no self defensive tools outside of his ultimate is op? I dunno he's stupidly easy to poke down and if he goes in you can just back off and wait for him to peter out and become useless after the first 1.2 seconds of combat to beat at him while he's slowly walking away.

I'll concede that he has very little poke, but he has a TON of healthy sustain, and some of the best CC/Displacement in the game. As a dude that commonly plays a mage support, it can be a big challenge to poke him down, and each time your hunting for some poke against a good Alistar, you are putting yourself at tremendous risk.

If he initiates properly, you cannot simply walk away. That is just straight up false. There is a truckload of CC and displacement coming your way.

AmetDeCryptFeb 6, 20182 votes

well he has one knockback, which he doesn't often to properly combo, a knockup. and a stun that requires him to be standing around for a few seconds and then be in melee range to proc. if he's doing the regular combo he has no knockback because he needs to cancel it into the knockup so that's that lost, and if he does the flash combo to knockup first he'll probably be wanting to walk around behind you and him having no defensive options outside of his ult (I don't really think his passive counts as a combat passive) he's entirely too vulnerable and reliant on his items to be tanky. you can merely stun, slow, knock up, disable, displace, or otherwise entirely prevent his combo because he was made before riot said "you know those big beefy guys flying at you? maybe they should be harder to interrupt with all that weight" so he can't really stop you because his cc begins after he reaches you. compare this to several other engage tanks in the bot lane. leona's e immediately roots you on the spot as she travels over, her w resistances and aftershock are already primed for the massive aoe slow, and her q ready to further disable you. nautilus' hook is very long range and not only pulls him in to engage but also pulls you towards him while stunned for a guaranteed auto stun that he doesn't need to build up at all, and then he can merely spam e while you're running away assuming you survived that long with his monster base damages, shield, and adc behind for even more slows and ult you when you thought you got away. similarly thresh's hook stuns you safely before he closes range and he can either lantern himself and flay you backwards for the shield or drag his adc into the mix for a bot lane rumble. the closest analogue to alistar is shen (I like shen support it's fun) because of a similarly non skillshot engage that is very short ranged, however even shen can merely press w and say "I wish to no longer take most of your lane's damage" and his q makes him a deadly duelist for most of the game and a proper threat to any squishy he manages to catch with its low cooldown and persistent slow if he drags his sword through them, where alistar after his initial damage combo has quite weak slappy auto attacks with no empowers.

TL;DR I think my point is yes alistar has cc, but almost every other tank has more options and self defense tools than he does in a fight, and if his adc is not on point to punish the enemy he's caught out for a second or two then he's just going to get kited by the myriad slows and cc and get poked down on his slow trundling walk back to the safety of the minion wave.

AzadetheFeb 5, 20184 votes

The only nerf I would support is probably an HP nerf. I've seen level 3 Alistar have 1354 HP with just a tier 2 Relic item. No tank should have that much HP at level 3. Adcs can barely dent him at that point, and he can just heal out of it.

hhaavviikkFeb 5, 20182 votes

{quoted}

The only nerf I would support is probably an HP nerf. I've seen level 3 Alistar have 1354 HP with just a tier 2 Relic item. No tank should have that much HP at level 3. Adcs can barely dent him at that point, and he can just heal out of it.

I mean adc's being barely able to dent him isn't a reason to nerf him since ADC's are supposed to be shit early game

DuskDaUmbreonFeb 5, 20182 votes

Yes, but an ADC also needs to be able to still deal some damage to their opponent in lane.

ADCs are supposed to be weak early, yes (With the exceptions of the ADCs which follow unusual traits for their class, such as the ones meant to fall off in late). But someone needs to be able to kill both people in botlane. And the support generally isn't supposed to have the damage for that.

Somebody Love MeFeb 5, 20183 votes

I think he's busted. I'd nerf his base hp How much his passive heals for OR His E damage/stun duration...

That's about it. I hate that this guy has almost 1k health at lv2, and the moment he upgrades to targons, you can barely hurt him. I'd only nerf his heal just because as an all or nothing support, a heal is kinda extra. It should be there, but maybe trim it down a bit. You know, the riot special. Nerfing something that is unrelated to the issue at hand. As for his E stun, I think it does a bit too much damage, or lasts a little too long. One of those should go down.

All I want is for one of these to get addressed, and I'd be okay.

KeepeFeb 5, 20183 votes

I've never really had issues with him. Granted, the moment I see a tank support, I pick Brand. But still.

Lios AshenbladeFeb 5, 20181 votes

Same, I am a support main, and never worry about melee supports, I will just get some extra high range champ, or switch to lulu or something and be fine

InfernapeFeb 5, 20182 votes

Because you can't nerf those.

DivewingFeb 5, 20182 votes

I've given up.

Riot has a love boner for Alistar because he's easy to set up kills with in pro play.

They only nerf him when his strength spills over into solo q, but even then, they refuse to touch headbutt-pulv combo.

S8 WAS TRASHAug 15, 20182 votes

I feel like he has a secret passive that grants him +300 armor.

CrystalyskFeb 5, 20181 votes

People did it, you missed those threads i guess.

k wìxFeb 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

People did it, you missed those threads i guess.

I guess so!

CrystalyskFeb 5, 20183 votes

Well, a daily reminder doesn't hurt anyway.

MagicFlyingLlamaFeb 5, 20181 votes

Poeple play Alistar? What rank and map?

BeatzBoyFTWFeb 5, 20187 votes

League of Legends.

jmp231Feb 5, 20181 votes

How would they even nerf him? Make it so you either couldn’t buffer w -> q combo or just redo his skills. No other way to nerf him

undesirable teamFeb 5, 20183 votes

damage e range e damage base damages base hp/tank stats

jmp231Feb 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=R FLASH EMOTE XD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9GHqHuAq,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-02-05T02:16:36.811+0000)

damage e range e damage base damages base hp/tank stats

I play Alistar and against Alistar. I have no issues with him personally. Maybe it’s becuase I’m trash and I maxed at silver but, as you know all silver players and below are shit

k wìxFeb 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

How would they even nerf him? Make it so you either couldn’t buffer w -> q combo or just redo his skills. No other way to nerf him

1.) Toying with his Sustain in lane would be a great spot to start. I strongly feel like his base health combined with runes make him a bit too durable in the early game. I feel like he has no good, solid counter in the laning phase.

2.) Get creative with animation frames during Pulverize. He needs a slight bit more wind up, so people can react to his knockup. I'd suggest creating a slight delay before the knockup occurs, like .25 or .5 seconds. As a compensation, make the ability hit a SLIGHTLY bigger area. Something like 365 -> 385.

3.) Probably the best solution: Make Tenacity worth a shit by affecting Knockups. This would put Alistar in a great spot and GIVE HIS OPPONENTS A WAY TO COUNTER HIM.

Luxana CrowngardFeb 5, 20181 votes

I feel like the only nerf I would think he should have is stun duration decrease by about maybe .25 seconds. Other than that, he's in a pretty good spot.

He feels broken that is for sure, but that is only because of Aftershock. Still thinking though that the E stun duration could use a small reduction and he'd be damn near perfect.

And A Real HieroFeb 5, 20181 votes

Fuck that noise, his headbutt's skill description is literally "You better back up offa ma boi.".

General Esdeath Feb 5, 20181 votes

I rarely see him anymore but I always felt his base heal was a bit too much for what he is

NymzoFeb 5, 20181 votes

He's great choice if you are first pick since everyone these days counterpick each other.

Athenes LuluFeb 5, 20181 votes

Because he is a support and clearly ADCs are the evil ones.

Seriously though, it's just that people have been complaining over other things so much that no one really bothered to talk about him.

Leaf on BushFeb 5, 20181 votes

He is really nasty.

Initiator supports usually don't give that much sustain, so you get a chance to harass them down when they miss a skillshot or something. Alistar doesn't even have real skillshots, there is very little you can do when he decides to engage you.

That's especially annoying when he is duo with a strong late game adc that you wanna punish early. The sustain makes it really hard and at the same time you have the risk of getting comboed. He doesn't have to do anything. He can zone you by doing nothing and sustain his adc by doing nothing.

This would be less of a problem if adc's nowadays wouldn't play so passive as if they were on cs auto pilot.

So i think he isn't really OP, there are just not enough players with the ncessary dedication to win their lane against him by exploiting weaknesses.

For example: me Soraka + Lucian vs Alistar Vayne

Usually I'd try to abuse our opponents low range and get as much damage on the vayne as possible, make her miss cs and make sure she never has the HP to go all in. But Lucian just stays behind our caster minions and doesn't do anything but farm, refuses to take any damage...etc. Now my options are to do nothing and letting Vayne win by default or risk getting comboed by Ali with a Lucian that is to lame to react or do anything about it. The risk is probably not even worth it because my damage is limited Ali will heal quite a lot and my afk farming Lucian will probably shove the minions under their tower so if Vayne ever gets low she will heal there anyway.

So you see it's not Alistar who is the problem. He is just good at capitalizing on certain scenarios without much effort.

Lios AshenbladeFeb 5, 20181 votes

Make his headbutt a skillshot, problem solved