if you add 1k hp to the base hp pool of every lvl 18 champion, this game might balance

Woook3r·Oct 20, 2016·2 votes·561 views

So I was watching a tank ekko beat on a malzahar today and I noticed that ekko's auto attacks did about as much dmg as the malzahar dot. If Thats just what we are looking at from base dmg, then we need a larger base hp pool.

I thiink that would benefit the squishies more than the tanks, but it would benefit both. You might have to change some of the dmg numbers on certain champs, especially assassins, but I really think that would go a long way towards balancing the tanks.

25 Comments

JbelsOct 20, 20162 votes

lol what? Then Malzahar will do even less damage to Ekko. The amount of damage your resistances mitigate is directly proportional to how much health you have. Giving Ekko another 1k health would mean he takes even less damage from Malz and becomes that much harder to kill

Woook3rOct 20, 20161 votes

I dont think so. If a full tank build has 4.5k hp adding 1k hp would put you at 5.5k. Thats a 25% increase. A glass cannon build has 2k hp and would become 3k hp. Thats a 30% increase. 30% > 25%. Squishies would benefit more.

JbelsOct 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I dont think so. If a full tank build has 4.5k hp adding 1k hp would put you at 5.5k. Thats a 25% increase. A glass cannon build has 2k hp and would become 3k hp. Thats a 30% increase. 30% > 25%. Squishies would benefit more.

You're arguing only for health. If you were looking purely at health, yes, mages and ADCs would get the better deal over all. But what you're ignoring is the fact that Tanks and bruisers are still getting the MOST out of that HP because their defensive stat purchases increase their effective HP over all. ADCs and Mages do not purchase defensive items beyond Maw of Malmortius, Mercurial Scimitar, and maybe the occasional Guardian Angel. Tanks would get harder to kill and ADCs would take relatively the same amount of time to die

Woook3rOct 20, 20161 votes

you are wrong about that but im not going to try to convince you. try to look at it with a fresh mind.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TROct 20, 20162 votes

Because of how armor and magic resistance calculate damage reduction, that 1K hp on a squishy is really closer to 1.5K, whereas on a tank it could be as much as 4K once armor and MR have been factored in. That would be a HUGE buff to tanks, especially if they buy something like GA or get %HP increase items/masteries. Cinderhulk especially would be incredibly broken.

Woook3rOct 20, 20161 votes

ok. If you want to assume that the tank has 4x effective hp:

They currently have about 4k hp pool but when you use effective hp its 16k, according to your calculations. If you add 1k hp that results in an additional 4k effective hp according to your calculations. That changes them to a total of 20k effective hp. Versus 16k effective hp.

If you repeat the calculations with effective hp for squishies they would be found to have a 30% increase.

TLDR; Its still a 25% increase for tanks and a 30% increase for squishies. Even when you look at effective hp.

Cinderhulk interacts with bonus hp. not base hp. So no. And it would actually be weaker overall.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TROct 20, 20162 votes

Items like Cinderhulk and any champions with a % damage reduction would become considerably more powerful though in addition to whatever flat increases there would be. Ultimately it would skew the balance hilariously, and probably isn't the best or easiest way to go about fixing tank Vs squishy matchups, in cases where those are even supposed to favor the squishy at all, which is not all of them.

Woook3rOct 21, 20161 votes

Cinderhulk would not become more powerful. It would become weaker. As would any item which gives HP stats. This is because in a league where base hp is higher, bonus hp becomes devalued. Its just like economic inflation. If there are more US dollars in the system, each individual dollar becomes worth less and less. Stats in leauge work the same way.

ZZ'rot and frozen heart would become more powerful because they only give armor and mr.

Woook3rOct 21, 20161 votes

It probably would help some bruisers out a lot though. Ill give you that. Yasuo would become overpowered, i think. But it would close the gap between squishies and tanks.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TROct 21, 20161 votes

Again, closing the gap isn't necessarily what we want though, at least in a general case. An ADC vs a bruiser should get obliterated if they try and just bash their head against each other 1v1. It would help balance in some cases, but hurt it just as bad in others.

Woook3rOct 26, 20161 votes

Ok. Ill accept that it might help in some an hurt in others. But its not even an idea you hear very often. You perceive that there is a problem when nautilus's base dmg is enough to take 50% of the adc's hp. Im not saying there isnt another way or this is what you should 100% do. But if tank base dmg is this high, maybe carry base hp should be a little higher.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TROct 26, 20161 votes

Frankly, I don't think it is a problem if Nautilus can do 50% of an ADCs hp in damage. If he could burn through tanks that would certainly be an issue, but ADCs are squishy. They're supposed to die in a stiff breeze, which is why others need to protect them.

Woook3rOct 26, 20161 votes

I do. Theres no reason for him to do that dmg.

Im 100% sure he cant do the bullshit i can do with him if played in higher lvls of play. But his dmg isnt that relevant at those lvls either. Its the 0 counterplay engage he brings. So why give him the huge dmg on his r?

Ill explain how it is broken. A tank must be focused by 5 enemies in order to die in a reasonable time. So you have to kill him before he kills one of your teammates. Or else you only have 4. But hes got burst dmg. So you cant do that.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TROct 26, 20161 votes

I'm a Nautilus main, I understand how tanky he gets and how much engage he has. I also understand that he does very little damage compared to the rest of the game. Accrding to ELOphant he does the 95th most damage total (including to minions) of all champions in the game, hardly a considerable amount. His ultimate does damage, but it's not a huge nuke or anything, and it's one of only 2 abilities he has that does non-negligible damage at all. Like I said, everything hurts squishies, and everything should hurt squishies, but Nautilus isn't exactly going around bursting people down.

JbelsOct 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

you are wrong about that but im not going to try to convince you. try to look at it with a fresh mind.

How am I wrong? I've told you exactly how resistances work, and why giving every champion regardless of role 1000 extra HP will do nothing for ADCs and Mages and do everything for Bruisers and Tanks, based simply on how the game is designed. You can say I'm wrong, but why am I wrong? Where is your argument? You can ask any other League veteran if what I have said is true, and they will agree.

Woook3rOct 21, 20161 votes

If you arent smart enough to just think about it, then you arent smart enough to argue. Theres a linear relationship between HP and effective hp. That means if your HP is increased by 25% your effective hp is also increased by 25%. And 25% is still less than 30%.

Your league veteran status failed to help you solve this mystery. Im not even sure why you brought it up.

JbelsOct 21, 20162 votes

{quoted}

If you arent smart enough to just think about it, then you arent smart enough to argue. Theres a linear relationship between HP and effective hp. That means if your HP is increased by 25% your effective hp is also increased by 25%. And 25% is still less than 30%.

Your league veteran status failed to help you solve this mystery. Im not even sure why you brought it up.

Do you even know what effective hp is? It's the amount of essentially extra health you get from mitigating damage through defensive stats. So before you tell me I'm not smart enough to argue, you should study up on what it is exactly you're even arguing about. Something to consider in the future before you look stupid again.

Woook3rOct 26, 20161 votes

Theres a linear relationship between HP and effective hp.

CrazyBear1987Oct 21, 20162 votes

I dont know, wouldn't it be a race to level 18 for some champs if they need the bonus hp from "ascension" to survive fights? mages are meant to be squishy, i think the problem is with Tank Ekko, which Riot has said they will change.

Mr Broken WingsOct 20, 20161 votes

lol no

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 20, 20161 votes

Games drag out to long as it is i dont wanna be stuck in hour long + games

KaiokoOct 20, 20161 votes

This game isn't dota 2 the response time for skills and attacks is quite a bit quicker and that's fine that's how the game is balanced.

Woook3rOct 20, 20161 votes

thats a pretty good point. i made this argument based on the idea that the kill times for tanks on squishy targets are looking a little too fast.

SasogwaOct 26, 20161 votes

It's too much of a buff to carries. They'll have insane defensive base stats and nobody will burst them. You'll see ADC's or melee carries such as Yasuo completely take over the game. Since magic damage is burst-based except rare cases like Cassiopeia ; mages will be weak and DPS AD's will be strong. AD assassins (burst-based too) will be weaker.