Nasus has a bit too much sustain now

Moody P··26 votes·11,199 views

He's doing quite well and I'm glad to see him again but I couldn't help but notice after the game that he has an insane amount of sustain options now.

Thanks to Conqueror and the buffed Bloodline Rune, Nasus scales up to 36% lifesteal with an additional 10% of all damage he does. With a red elixir it's another 15% of all physical damage. And of course this is all amped by 30% when he has Spirit Visage, a core item. I've played it, and the healing is quite insane.

If Nasus does need a nerf, and I expect he will soon since he's performing so well in soloQ and his few meta counters are seeing both indirect and direct nerfs, I think the best thing to hit would be his passive lifesteal bonus, just to address it in the light of how much sustain he is stacking right now.

53 Comments

Barso556 votes

yeah reduce level 1 lifesteal to 6%. Give him 12% by like level 9

Ravenous Howls4 votes

Nasus is 50% WR and 3% pick rate. I think he's fine where he is. They just gave him the buffs he needed to be relevant and his numbers are certainly not showing him as oppressive or broken.

Besides grevious wounds and ignite still shut down healing pretty hard and are more than effective against any sustain champ Nasus included. If anything Riot could revert his passive scaling up as quickly and go back to the, iirc, 10%, 16%, 20% at levels 9, 12, 16.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Except the sustain is an issue in the early game when you don't have GW and Ignite is for all ins. You can't lane bully him because he just heals up.

Ravenous Howls1 votes

{quoted}

Except the sustain is an issue in the early game when you don't have GW and Ignite is for all ins. You can't lane bully him because he just heals up.

Not when Nasus doesn't have the base/scaling AD nor stacks to make use of it...?! Most sustain for a good Nasus, early, will come only from last hits with Q and the rest will come from pots and biscuits just so he can survive. Those last hits until he has north of 100 stacks and a sheen will barely heal him for 20-50 HP per hit.

You are over exaggerating his sustain potential a lot.

rayzo4 votes

Of course let's ignore the fact he's a juggernaut and can be kited by 99% of the champions in the game, and that his early game is dogshit.

Player3424 votes

Yeah so you want to make him completely useless in high elo just because you can't deal with him, makes perfect sense. High elo nasus mains (literally 10 of them xD) approve this !

Like please, he is sitting at 50% win rate with 3% pick rate (majority of them are probably nasus mains), let's not be ridiculous

Daddy Ants3 votes

So does Sylas

wolvius2 votes

{quoted}

So does Sylas

Look at 1.20 https://youtu.be/yOVIvDUYo5w Even with a bug that's bullshit healing

DeathBurst3 votes

"Even with a bug, that's bullshit".... I don't think you understand the concept of a bug, buddy. A bug can do anything. It can crash the client. It can make you insta-win. With a bug, that's perfectly reasonable healing. Remember when Urgot would heal for literally 10K HP with Gunblade when he R'ed? Or when Corky dealt 500% damage? This is nothing compared to previous bugs.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Urgot never healed for 10k HP. That was a troll post that convinced tons of people, apparently you included. Feelsoofman.

I'll explain:

The video showcased was in the practice tool against a target dummy. Urgot heals for ((spellvamp + omnivamp) * (target's remaining health + (9,999 if target doesn't die) * (infinity))). The "+9,999 * infinity" part never comes into play since the true damage will always execute the target. But since target dummies have literally infinite health, his ultimate deals infinite damage, resulting in infinite healing. It would never heal like that in an actual game except for literally only Tryndamere but who cares, fuck Tryndamere.

Edit: Nvm Riot fixed the interaction with Tryndamere, probably the target dummy too then.

DeathBurst1 votes

Yeah, so there was a bug, and it was fixed. Thanks for your participation.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Oh okay let me fix that for you then:

{quoted}

Remember when Urgot would heal for literally 10K HP with Gunblade when he R'ed a Tryndamere ulting?

ChasmOfTrossm1 votes

{quoted}

"Even with a bug, that's bullshit".... I don't think you understand the concept of a bug, buddy. A bug can do anything. It can crash the client. It can make you insta-win. With a bug, that's perfectly reasonable healing. Remember when Urgot would heal for literally 10K HP with Gunblade when he R'ed? Or when Corky dealt 500% damage? This is nothing compared to previous bugs.

Bugs are bad no matter what form they take, so I suggest you not turn this into a competition to see which bug is the baddest bug.

DeathBurst1 votes

That's exactly the opposite of what am I doing. I'm saying that all bugs are infinitely bad, and that absolutely anything can happen with a bug.

Saying, as wolvius did, "even if there was a bug, that should never happen" is stupid. Anything can happen.

wolvius2 votes

{quoted}

"Even with a bug, that's bullshit".... I don't think you understand the concept of a bug, buddy. A bug can do anything. It can crash the client. It can make you insta-win. With a bug, that's perfectly reasonable healing. Remember when Urgot would heal for literally 10K HP with Gunblade when he R'ed? Or when Corky dealt 500% damage? This is nothing compared to previous bugs.

Oops meant to say 'even without bug its bullshit healing'. I really should check the posts I make on mobile, autocorrect will kill me one day. Kinda left the post after couldn't get vidoe to start at timestamp on mobile.

DeathBurst2 votes

Fair enough.

Illabethe1 votes

Sylas is a one time use. Then he's dead.

DeathBurst3 votes

Hey, a moderate and argue view. Long time to no see!

As it happens, I also agree with your analysis. I'm fine with Nasus late game power, but the sustain he has, especially early in the game, makes his laning phase far too soft for an infinitely scaling champ.

Warlord Rhinark2 votes

I'd change the Lifesteal on his passive from it's current 12 / 18 / 24% (at levels 1, 7, and 13) to 5 / 10 / 15 / 20% (at levels 1, 6, 11, and 16).

This should cut down nicely on his sustain and enforce him as a late-game scaling champion with a weak early game.

Minimac20001 votes

Wait it doesn't start at 10% anymore?

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

{quoted}

Wait it doesn't start at 10% anymore?

Not according to https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Nasus

Z3Sleeper1 votes

It's jumped all over the place over the years lol.

Vyntrius10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pgOEV1ct,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-28T14:38:19.723+0000)

I'd change the Lifesteal on his passive from it's current 12 / 18 / 24% (at levels 1, 7, and 13) to 5 / 10 / 15 / 20% (at levels 1, 6, 11, and 16).

This should cut down nicely on his sustain and enforce him as a late-game scaling champion with a weak early game.

This change would delete Nasus from the game, or at least in higher elos. Against meta top laners and competent players, you can't expect Nasus to ever survive the early game and actually reach the late-game if you cut his early game lifesteal in half.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

{quoted}

This change would delete Nasus from the game, or at least in higher elos. Against meta top laners and competent players, you can't expect Nasus to ever survive the early game and actually reach the late-game if you cut his early game lifesteal in half.

How come?

5% Lifesteal is nothing to scoff at, it's 167% of that which is on a Doran's Blade.

Especially not with his Q, where Lifesteal is applied to the total amount of damage it deals.

Picking up a Doran's Shield + Second Wind in the Resolve tree is also going to be more than enough to make up for the less Lifesteal.

Keep in mind the recent buff Nasus got to how quickly he builds up stacks now. Cutting down on his sustain would compensate for the increased speed in which Nasus now scales.

Fondling Gems3 votes

Exactly, and you suggested cutting away 7%. That is a huge nerf. Especially since he already takes Doran's Shield anyways. Suggesting that someone takes what they are already taking to make up for a nerf is meaningless.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pgOEV1ct,comment-id=0003000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-01T00:23:15.025+0000)

Exactly, and you suggested cutting away 7%. That is a huge nerf.

What do you mean "exactly"?

When I said that 5% Lifesteal was nothing to scoff at, I didn't refer to the Lifesteal that was removed, I was referring to the Lifesteal he would have after the change.

Having 5% Lifesteal already from the start of the game is still a big advantage over your lane opponent, which will have 3% at best if they buy a Doran's Blade.

Especially, like I said, with the massive amounts of (potential) healing Nasus gets from his Q's, which has Lifesteal applying to the total amount of damage dealt.

Especially since he already takes Doran's Shield anyways. Suggesting that someone takes what they are already taking to make up for a nerf is meaningless.

Not really, when that combo is already immensely strong.

It's nigh impossible to bully a Nasus with the current 12% Lifesteal, a Doran's Shield, and Second Wind in the Resolve tree, out of lane, which is odd considering he's supposed to have a "weak" early game to compensate for his greater mid-to-late game.

Fondling Gems2 votes

You are trying to compare power that is allocated as part of a kit to power from a starting item.

"Olaf gets up to 99% attack speed from his passive but players can only start with a dagger which gives 12%, so Olaf's attack speed should be reduced to 40%."

It doesn't take into account that a champion's kits/stats give up other things in return for that. Giving Nasus lifesteal means that he can have lower base defensive values because otherwise he would need more of other stats to make him able to even walk into lane. By move a chunk of his defensive ability into lifesteal it promotes interaction with him, and makes things like CC chaining (Which is one of the big strats against Nasus, especially late game) more effective against him.

Nasus isn't strong level 1-5 and can get bullied out quite easily. He also hardly gets any more stacks now than he used to; if anything he gets less because games are so much shorter now that he doesn't have the time to farm as much before laning phase is over. His stacking is perfectly reasonable; his current power comes from his ult change giving him a massive powerspike compared to before.

If you are having trouble kicking a Nasus out of lane pre 6 that implies more about the champions you are using, your ability to bully effectively, and your wave control.

In either case his lifesteal isn't the thing to target because his lifesteal promotes interaction and forces him to actually come up to the wave if he wants sustain compared to flat defensive stats/health regen. The effectiveness of lifesteal is also based on how many stacks he has and sheen, which reinforces the entire scaling idea naturally and again promotes interaction and having him buy an item that gives no defensive stats.

Also in reply to your earlier comment:

Keep in mind the recent buff Nasus got to how quickly he builds up stacks now.

If Nasus gets every single cannon minion up until the 15 minute mark he gets just over 50 more stacks than before. Considering this gives a clear target to try and bully him off of 50 stacks really isn't that much. These days I see Nasi moving around the map and grouping etc. at around 400 stacks, where in previous seasons leaving laning phase with 400 was considered bare minimum. Ideally you wanted 500 by end oh laning phase, and while difficult higher was possible.

When compared to game length Nasus is slower at stacking than before, it is only when compared to raw time in a free farming situation that he is faster. His build path doesn't even have more CDR in it than before, so he isn't getting it from that. His power isn't coming from stacking speed or lifesteal, it is coming from his Ult change a while back, the 12 stack buff just brought more attention to it.

Top laners also tend to be going for squishier builds than a couple seasons ago, which makes it look like he does more damage when it is really the same or even less since he doesn't get bonus AD from ult anymore.

Warlord Rhinark3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pgOEV1ct,comment-id=000300010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-01T09:08:37.657+0000)

You are trying to compare power that is allocated as part of a kit to power from a starting item.

"Olaf gets up to 99% attack speed from his passive but players can only start with a dagger which gives 12%, so Olaf's attack speed should be reduced to 40%."

It doesn't take into account that a champion's kits/stats give up other things in return for that. Giving Nasus lifesteal means that he can have lower base defensive values because otherwise he would need more of other stats to make him able to even walk into lane. By move a chunk of his defensive ability into lifesteal it promotes interaction with him, and makes things like CC chaining (Which is one of the big strats against Nasus, especially late game) more effective against him.

Nasus isn't strong level 1-5 and can get bullied out quite easily. He also hardly gets any more stacks now than he used to; if anything he gets less because games are so much shorter now that he doesn't have the time to farm as much before laning phase is over. His stacking is perfectly reasonable; his current power comes from his ult change giving him a massive powerspike compared to before.

If you are having trouble kicking a Nasus out of lane pre 6 that implies more about the champions you are using, your ability to bully effectively, and your wave control.

In either case his lifesteal isn't the thing to target because his lifesteal promotes interaction and forces him to actually come up to the wave if he wants sustain compared to flat defensive stats/health regen. The effectiveness of lifesteal is also based on how many stacks he has and sheen, which reinforces the entire scaling idea naturally and again promotes interaction and having him buy an item that gives no defensive stats.

Also in reply to your earlier comment:

If Nasus gets every single cannon minion up until the 15 minute mark he gets just over 50 more stacks than before. Considering this gives a clear target to try and bully him off of 50 stacks really isn't that much. These days I see Nasi moving around the map and grouping etc. at around 400 stacks, where in previous seasons leaving laning phase with 400 was considered bare minimum. Ideally you wanted 500 by end oh laning phase, and while difficult higher was possible.

When compared to game length Nasus is slower at stacking than before, it is only when compared to raw time in a free farming situation that he is faster. His build path doesn't even have more CDR in it than before, so he isn't getting it from that. His power isn't coming from stacking speed or lifesteal, it is coming from his Ult change a while back, the 12 stack buff just brought more attention to it.

Top laners also tend to be going for squishier builds than a couple seasons ago, which makes it look like he does more damage when it is really the same or even less since he doesn't get bonus AD from ult anymore.

I mean, reading through this, you present a pretty convincing argument.

However, I am still of the opinion that Nasus' Lifesteal should be reduced by at least a small bit.

Something like 10 / 15 / 20% (at levels 1, 7, and 13) compared to the current 12 / 18 / 24% (at levels 1, 7, and 13).

Fondling Gems2 votes

I do agree that 10/15/20% does seem more than reasonable (Though personally I would like to see his ult either have a shorter duration at earlier levels or have the Q cdr during ult change from 50% at all ranks to 30/40/50% since I feel that smooths his powerspike and helps handle that they tend to spend their ult time rapidly stacking after having killed their opponent.)

I would also like to take the time to thank you for keeping an open mind while discussing things. (Not saying this simply because you agreed with my point) I really appreciate people seeing discussions as a place to actually discuss and not just blindly state their point. Thank you.

Ravenous Howls1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pgOEV1ct,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-02-28T19:00:01.073+0000)

How come?

5% Lifesteal is nothing to scoff at, it's 167% of that which is on a Doran's Blade.

Especially not with his Q, where Lifesteal is applied to the total amount of damage it deals.

Picking up a Doran's Shield + Second Wind in the Resolve tree is also going to be more than enough to make up for the less Lifesteal.

Keep in mind the recent buff Nasus got to how quickly he builds up stacks now. Cutting down on his sustain would compensate for the increased speed in which Nasus now scales.

But Nasus does not see a return on his life steal if he is zoned off waves and can not stack. He scales poorly with AD items, has no target access via in built mobility, no longer range abilities that scale with AD. He needs better than mediocre sustain to survive his brutal early game.

So 5% for starting life steal would dumpster him into trash tier. Nasus's win rate and pick rate are perfect right now. He's balanced and your anecdotal opinions do not apply in gauging if he needs a nerf. He has 50% WR and 3% pick rate.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Are your hands heavy?

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

{quoted}

Are your hands heavy?

Pardon?

Strawberrycocoa2 votes

I agree with this idea for early game so he can't as easily hobo-squat in a lane with impuity, but not for his late game values. In late game he needs that sustain to stay alive in a fight since he can't dodge or phase out or otherwise evade damage.

5StackUltOneShot2 votes

Yah, I take conqueror bloodline and thirster + visage on him. The healing on his Q late game is honestly one of the funniest fucking things Ive ever seen in my life.

Slade252 votes

I think his lifesteal on champions should be higher than his lifesteal against minions. Whenever a Nasus needs health, he just pushes waves with Q's and gets all his health back. It's really frustrating, and grievous wounds does nothing if youre not attacking him or he's not attacking you. But yeah, I am happy to see him back in the toplane rotation

Beacon Academy2 votes

This seems to be an unused account, so I can't even check the match history to see:

a. Whether or not item 3123 item 3033 item 3165 item 3075 were bought.

b. Whether or not your team or the enemy team had a good amount of CC.

c. Whether or not Nasus got camped or left alone to farm early game.

d. Whether or not your team or the enemy team was even ahead or strong enough to force Nasus to stay with his team instead of split pushing.

I'm not a Nasus main, but at least provide the game where you felt Nasus was a monster because personally, I don't have an issue with him unless we literally let him do what he wants.

[Note: Currently in the Japan server due to work location, so I haven't attempted to swap servers to search via the client. Its a pain to switch to English text after switching back to Japan so... Yea.

Didn't see it on opgg, match history on this site refused to search for anyone, and I found out lolking shut down lol]

Z3Sleeper3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beacon Academy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pgOEV1ct,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-02-28T20:28:14.718+0000)

a. Whether or not item 3123 item 3033 item 3165 item 3075 were bought.

There's just no point in buying Executioner or Bramble vs Nasus in lane. Nasus wants you to push.

If you're attacking him with basic attacks or single target spells, his minions are now attacking you instead of your minions, causing a push towards him where he will just lifesteal at the safety of his tower and safety/threat of a jungle gank on a now overextended laner.

If you're attacking him with an AoE ability, you're hitting minions which ofc causes them to push.

The way to beat Nasus is to deny him or outright kill him. Taking those items and shoving into him is counterproductive.

Also Nasus is never gonna be attacking you during laning phase so Bramble/Thorn is useless.

Level 6 sure you're reducing his all-in healing, but we're talking about lane sustain here. Those items simply do nothing to stop that.


If you weren't talking about laning at all then yea, ignore the above haha. Your points are valid for post-lane Susan.

Beacon Academy1 votes

Yea Yea for post-laning

To beat him, all you have to do is:

  1. Bully and zone him from CS while you freeze

  2. Crush his team, because if his team can't hold 4v4 or 4v5, then his split pushing won't mean shit.

  3. When he can't split push, just cc and kill him. He'll be weak because he doesn't have the time to stack

Thats just based off my experience with him at least.

KidSpectre2 votes

item 3123 item 3165 item 3076 ?

Bears Dont Care2 votes

No. He is perfectly fine with his current design.

If you want to be as t nasus you let him push, then freeze the rest lane by your tower and gank him.

Anchorit Wracaj2 votes

As nasus main. Can I see any of your account op.gg where ure atleast at diamond-master by playing Nasus? Nasus is at https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/nasus/diamond 50% win rate,with 5% pick rate,and 5% ban rate. Theres 50 champions better than him.Darius,Riven,Renekton,Yorick,Jax,olaf,Jayce. Sylas is at 50.7% win rate,17.4% pick rate,and 40% ban rate,and getting buffs. But yeah...its not even a strange thing that nobody gives a fk about boards,cause everytime somonoe get deleted by some champs they want to GUT the champion cause they dont like it. And ofcourse low elo people believed that Akali/Irelia needed heavy buffs while they were broken AF.LMAO.

ŠρìΚσ2 votes

yeh nasus have quit a bot sustain , i just went vs a riven top as nasus , i was 60 CS and her 180 , guess why ? cause i'm bad ?

hell nooo cause that sht just jumpe and take 70 % of my hp every tiem i try to get a CS who is not under my turret -_- yeeh clearly nasus have lot of sustain you talk abt a champ that have 51 % winrat and only playable in low elo , and you let a sht champ with 54 % winrat with more then 12% pick rat .

what really need a nerf is that sht called riven and the other sht called jax and also minions waves need a fixe cause simply when you play bad early champ any good player will make you farm 100 in 30 min cause its too easy to controle them vs a bad early champ.

General Matty2 votes

The one time Nasus gets strong people want him nerfed. I cri

Anchorit Wracaj2 votes

[{quoted}](name=General Matty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pgOEV1ct,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2019-03-01T12:56:11.782+0000)

The one time Nasus gets strong people want him nerfed. I cri

Sad point is he is not even strong,pretty weak.Especially above D2..literally unplayable. But lol,boards will never get into consideration.Look how much topics there is about yasuo/Riven etc..Zed got buffed while at 51% win rate in diamond+20% ban rate and 20% pick rate.They're just buffing and nerfing what they want.Nasus is not on their sight so they don't care much. Its time for Sylas to get buffed,and some nice skins to come so they can sell it well.Then its time for nerf.

Saianna1 votes

It's not nasus problem but every ADs in the game.

Lifesteal should have been locked at 10% max per game no matter what items you buy. The fact some champs can lifesteal for more than mage can dish out damage with whole combo is fucking nuts.

Strawberrycocoa3 votes

I agree with this. Marksmen get far too high of a return on their Lifesteal. It needs heavier caps, they should be using it just to keep topped off, not completely facetank everything.

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

I don't think his sustain is a problem at all. The issue is that huge Q CDR they put on his ult last year. It allows him to 1v1 most champs as soon as he hits level 6, which is something he could never do before. They should move that CDR reduction to the second rank of his ult.

5050BS1 votes

You dont say :/

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