10 bans on the horizon, lets bid farewell to Lee Sin and Yasuo

Danny DeVito·Apr 24, 2017·289 votes·8,826 views

Good fucking riddance

263 Comments

Truly PridefulApr 24, 201750 votes

Hopefully Graves joins them on the 100% banrate list. I mean I don't mind Yasuo personally, but Lee Sin being gone is welcome.

WiseFrozenNinjaApr 24, 201715 votes

I think the whole idea of perma ban is dying out. What i mean by that is, If i have someone on my team that pre picks yasuo as their champion, you have at least 1 team already deciding (except for the rare outliers that actually troll you), that they aren't going to ban him, that leaves only 5 players to ban him, and of those 5 players (3 aren't going to be in lane with him). So you now have 2 players who could focus out the yasuo, but the mid laner is afraid of LB because shes really toxic right now, and the top laner got camped by Rengar last game, so now you have nobody that really cares to ban the yasuo. And for the enemy bot lane banning him out, lets be real they care more about banning a jungler who could camp them, or a utility support that directly impacts their lane more than the occasional Yasuo roam. Most people aren't going to pick one champion every single game to stop it from being played. If they do they open the doors to other champions filling the void left behind.

Even if the argument is for Lee, you are always going to have players with different opinions and therefor different targets to ban, some bans are more or less selfish than others. If the ban pool was 20 deep you could pose an actual argument for "perma baning" a strong champion. All the fears of a 10 ban being to much is irrational.

Fed by Snu SnuApr 24, 201714 votes

About damn time.

PapaGreg21Apr 25, 201714 votes

People are going to start thinking they are playing a different game. There will be all these strange characters walking out of the jungle that nobody has ever seen before.

FooDangApr 24, 201710 votes

This is why I was against 10 bans. the perma ban list will be real. I feel bad for dem jungler mains.

What's really going to be called "meta" ? The ones on the permaban list or the ones that are picked because the meta got banned?

KeevalroyApr 24, 2017127 votes

If they're permabanned for an extended period of time, it forces Riot's hand to peel away the favoritism shield and actually look at their toxic children to try and understand what's wrong with them or why people don't want them in their games. Who knows? Maybe Yasuo will finally be reworked. Maybe Lee will finally lose his wardhopping? Maybe other overloaded champions will float to 100% so Riot understands people hate it when they cram so much shit inside of a champion and at the very least give them all partial reworks so they're less cancerous to face.

ErrastasApr 24, 201729 votes

Even if they're reworked the boards will find something else in their kit to whine about, it's a never ending cycle.

KeevalroyApr 24, 201731 votes

If they're reworked correctly, then it shouldn't be an issue. However, if they don't touch the problem and hit everything else, accentuate the problem, turn them into a brand new champion with no similarities to the old, or solve a kit issue by introducing 3 more, then we have every right to be upset.

AnidanApr 25, 20176 votes

Think about their identity and the character fantasy Yasuo and Lee are meant to fill: They will never be healthy in the eyes of the Boards. Some element of their kit will always be complained about. No assassin will ever really be healthy in the eyes of the boards, no ADC will ever be healthy in the eyes of the boards, no support will be truly healthy in the eyes of the boards, no mage will be truly healthy in the eyes of the boards. Why? Because some part of almost every kit is going to be frustrating to go against, and the boards have conflated "frustrating" with unhealthiness and bad design.

MorticianjohnApr 25, 201716 votes

Every champion gets complained about by the boards at some point, however, when you look at what is actually happening then you'll see yasuo is actually banned at a much higher rate than other champions. Zed is a good example of a champion that was the most banned champion at one point but was nerfed until he is banned at a much lower rate simply because it frequently isn't worth it to ban him now. Lee Sin is also banned at a much higher rate than other champions. Simply put, the power level of a champion has a correlation to how frequently it gets banned. Another example of this was a few patches ago they overtuned Sona for one or two patches which was a champion I played frequently and I felt it because she was seeing a lot of bans for those patches. Once they nerfed her accordingly she stopped being banned.

It's true that Zed is still seeing a lot of bans because of how frustrating he can be even though he isn't particularly strong, however, you can't say that Lee Sin is "healthy" with such a high pick/ban rate.

AnidanApr 25, 20173 votes

I feel I have to ask what "healthy" even is at this point. It's such a broad term at this point that it's become nebulous.

Worth noting I'm not defending Lee, but nerfing numbers and touching his kit likely won't change the fact that the boards will most likely still call him unhealthy and toxic as soon as numbers dictate that he's strong. I'm pretty sure we need a better term than "healthy" for that, because even a champion that has a decent design can be overtuned and thus "unhealthy."

MorticianjohnApr 25, 20174 votes

I think that variety is good for the game and having one champion played in 1/3 and banned in almost 1/5 of every game played probably indicates that something should change, even if he's perfectly balanced to a 50% win rate.

In a game with 130+ champions, not every champ will be viable, and not every champ will have that "fun" playstyle but some effort should be made to bring in the outliers, otherwise why even have Urgot exist as a champion. I play Urgot and enjoy him but apparently I'm the only one.

Sp33d Zer0Apr 25, 201713 votes

I never hear whining about Warwick right now, just as an example.

KeevalroyApr 25, 201714 votes

Because Warwick, even though CertainlyT was behind him, was somehow a success.

UnvictusApr 25, 201711 votes

I agree warwicks rework came out really well. He was intentionally kept an accessible champion. Hence why he wasn't overloaded like most of his champs end up being.

Chill VibezApr 25, 20172 votes

like who

TheorcheroApr 25, 201713 votes

{quoted}

like who

Kalista Yasuo Zyra Thresh Darius

All of whom were/are balance nightmares, and usually overloaded.

Sexy Jack RabbitApr 25, 20175 votes

I mean it didn't really happen with Warwick or Galio? I think very briefly post-release there were some complaints about Galio Q doing like 50% of a Squishies HP, but otherwise they've been very quiet and successful reworks.

Reworks can be done well, and when they are, people don't really have many issues with them.

jama655Apr 25, 20174 votes

I think yasuo just needs his scaling fixed its always been to easy for him to get 100% crit

WyrmbladeApr 25, 20178 votes

Riot will revert ten bans before they remove Lee Sin from the meta for more than a year.

Quote me on this, I really want to be wrong.

Phyuq YiuApr 25, 20173 votes

Or they will just make more than 10 champs grossly OP.

HyperiönApr 24, 201714 votes

But you have to think about this.

The jungler is probably the most important team mate in this current meta.

I was watching Dyrus the other day, he literally said almost all of his games are decided by the jungler. The team with the better one wins.

WalkingInACircleApr 24, 201711 votes

That has been true for a long time. The facts are that the early game is more important than the late game and that the jungler gets to decide which lanes win and which lose. There is nothing a camped laner can do unless their own jungler helps them. Sadly, this fact is also what keeps lane bullies from being over dominant - because they are typically very vulnerable to being camped.

MunchCrunchLunchApr 24, 20179 votes

fiora for me. sorry forumers but yasuo and lee sin aren't nearly as good in my elo as fioras. in which that is platinum

TotalJerkApr 24, 201712 votes

The way Fiora scales is genuinely toxic IMO. Past a certain point no one can deal with her.

AtanchanApr 25, 20178 votes

That's why you get two people to deal with her, instead of trying to duel the champion designed to be the best duelist in the game.

TotalJerkApr 25, 20171 votes

She's like Tryndamere, but she can actually teamfight.

Faceroll TacticsApr 25, 20174 votes

She has pretty bad team fighting, she's a melee champion with situational cc and good luck hitting a target on 4 sides before you get targeted and blown up.

Her riposte can only save her once, after that she is extremely vulnerable

invisiblecat1Apr 25, 20177 votes

Bye bye Graves you melee ranged tank bruiser juggernaut burst assassin mage killer skirmisher

ShahamutApr 24, 20176 votes

Just got 2 new champs, tank update coming. I am willing to bet you won't see them both banned every game :-/

ShahamutApr 24, 201712 votes

Personally, only reason I ban yasuo is because if the other team picks him, I can't guarantee I'll be fighting him in top lane.

CannabisOverlordApr 25, 20175 votes

Same, As Mordekaiser I destroy him, but cant rely on mid being able too.

Support PositionApr 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Just got 2 new champs, tank update coming. I am willing to bet you won't see them both banned every game :-/

Maokai sucks. Sejuani and Zac will be in that ban list. No other tanks are getting changed. Xayah Rakan will probably be in it as well since they're broken. (More than Camille on launch hands down.)

ShahamutApr 25, 20173 votes

Im going to bet Maokai is way stronger than people will give credit for. Zac will remain about the same, depending on how easy it is to use his new ultimate. Sej is going to be a low Elo stomper/people are going to cry about her a lot.

Xayah is not near broken, just has good aoe dmg for an adc, decent kite and terrible chase. Rakan is a bit on the broken side I suspect. And i respectfully disagree on your assessment with Camile. She was way stronger on launch than either of these two.

KarfussApr 25, 20176 votes

Thank god.

Time to start reworking these overloaded champions. They've proved with Taric and Warwick that they are capable of making balanced reworks, that are fun to play and to play against, and not overloaded to the extent they're broken and impossible to balance.

AninLegions777Apr 25, 20175 votes

Ofc this affects only Plat and below. It amazes me the trash champs you guys complain about. Lee and Yasuo get dumpstered by any competent player with enough game knowledge to know how to counter pick and use shut down strategies. All I see are some whiny kids here, nothing else. Oh and now I wonder what excuse you'll use to justify being stuck in low elo. Pfft.

deltemp951512Apr 25, 20176 votes

Lee Sin is even being called unhealthy all the way up to LCS levels. You're saying you are better than the LCS players when you are only level 20? Gtfo here. xD

GorgiolioApr 25, 20175 votes

Why would he post on his main account? He obviously doesn't wanna get his obvious high elo that he attained filthy /s

AninLegions777Apr 25, 20171 votes

Ah gold players. Always feel like they can talk to smurfs simply because they left Silver. I'll wait for you to be better. Camille

GorgiolioApr 25, 20174 votes

Yeah man, I got all the time in the world to just grind my way up through ranked with my one to two games a day. You got me. I'm sure you're living it up in that challenger scene.

AninLegions777Apr 25, 20171 votes

Well if you can't put in work, then do not complain about a champ. How can I listen to you when you can't spend time learning how to counter a champ? It's like me saying "OMG I CAN NEVER LEARN HOW TO CODE!!!" while spending only 1-2 hours a day trying to do so. Any logical human being will know I'm not serious enough.

Liquid DarioApr 24, 20174 votes

Graves LeeSin Yasuo Ryze Malzahar Kassadin Camille Ekko Ivern Leblanc

AirKingNeoApr 24, 201719 votes

Why would you ban Ekko, Kassadin, Ryze, or Malz?

Malz is Deid Mann. Ekko isn't even worth the ban when other cancer exists. Ryze is also Deid Mann. Kassadin? This isn't season 3/4.

Chromatic EagleApr 25, 20171 votes

Who would you ban?

AirKingNeoApr 25, 20175 votes

Lucian - Too strong right now. I'd like to play the game. Graves - Best jungler, too much damage, safety, and tankiness. Lulu - 2.5 second stun. Camille - Hey look, still overpowered. Fiora - Literally no counterbuild. Ahri - Impossible to catch, too much sustain and waveclear. Orianna - Too much poke. Akali - Right now she just has too much sustain in her laning phase with too much base damage. Only thing that beats her is top lane bullies and some assassins, and that's pre 6. Yasuo - Negates a lot of fighting power of an ADC with windwall. Pain in lane and a pain to play around mid-late game. Leblanc or LeeSin - Both have too much escape power. Leblanc brings insane damage and way too much mobility while Lee brings still a lot of mobility and the early game.

EDIT: I can deal with Ivern if people ward my buffs and he doesn't have a 2.5 second stun.

CanastusApr 24, 20173 votes

Sadly there's still the chance of them getting through the initial banphase since the last 4 bans are done after the first set of picks. In that case only dodging can stop them from getting picked at all.

mrgiraffeweevilApr 24, 20178 votes

I thought it was supposed to be 10 bans instantaneously at the start.

WinBoatApr 24, 201711 votes

Yeah I think it's 10 bans instantly. Riot has said in the patch or whatever the 10 ban system will work just a little bit different than the LCS version.

Fuh QueueApr 24, 20171 votes

Is the draft going to be the same as the one that the pros are using? It looks like the regular 6 bans come out first, then 6 picks are made and then 4 bans come out before the final picks. I imagine that time there will allow for these champions to get play.