I've been critical of Riot's last few choices, but Bard looks good.

killd0zer·Feb 24, 2015·103 votes·33,081 views

Far less straightforward mechanics, less correct decisions, more ambiguous abilities. Less damage, more unique effects.

A little overloaded maybe (Double passive again, and I don't really see why his auto attacks need to get stronger) but it looks like a champion that not only plays differently, but brings something that you can't directly numerically compare to the table.

First bit of strategic diversity I've been pretty impressed with.

167 Comments

junglerboy16Feb 24, 201530 votes

I think they only gave him the Meep passive (yes, that is what it is called guys, look it up) because he only has 1, count it 1, damaging ability in his whole kit. Even a super squishy "no damage" support like Soraka has more damage abilities than him, so they were probably trying to find a simple way to give him at least mediocre damage as the game progresses, so that he doesn't become a non factor when alone.

I am SO excited for this guy though, his kit looks like a combination of a ton of really cool ideas I've seen floating around for ages (like health packs and passing through walls as a team), and I'm really glad they are finally making it into the game.

RiotMeddlerFeb 24, 201543 votes

That's pretty accurate. Meeps damage is there, and scales over the course of the game, in part to offset Bard's lack of other damaging abilities and the way some of his skills (E especially, W and R to a lesser degree) lack immediate combat impact.

Meeps also give a clear, discreet way of providing power from his collection game, adding some different decision making and optimisation into how that power's used (rather than giving raw stats, which can also be an appropriate choice but is something we've already got on offer on other champions).

The Red WardenFeb 24, 20151 votes

So will the meeps work like LuLu's passive and land a little after the auto does?

Father CthulhuFeb 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Red Warden,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pQr7EhKA,comment-id=000900010000,timestamp=2015-02-24T21:43:13.246+0000)

So will the meeps work like LuLu's passive and land a little after the auto does?

Watch the video, it's at the same time as his auto and splash damage behind them.

Duke AnaxFeb 24, 20152 votes

It's a amazing how easily people can miss the obvious (;

You could have slimmed this down and avoided the double passive, by simply having him gather the meeps instead of chimes.

But I guess you had the chimes first and added the meeps later?

KonidiasFeb 24, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pQr7EhKA,comment-id=000900010001,timestamp=2015-02-24T21:52:21.089+0000)

It's a amazing how easily people can miss the obvious (;

You could have slimmed this down and avoided the double passive, by simply having him gather the meeps instead of chimes.

But I guess you had the chimes first and added the meeps later?

Not really... They are two separate things... Meeps come regardless of whether you collect anything or not. Chimes have to be physically picked up. Meeps also appear more frequently as the game progresses... while chimes appear with the same consistency throughout.

If chimes became meeps, that also means you get all the chime buff plus the meeps at the exact same time and maybe that's not the way Riot has intended them to work.

While I like your idea of condensing two things down to one... in this situation it really doesn't work.

Duke AnaxFeb 24, 20151 votes

It could have easily been spun that way. The number of meeps depends on the number of chimes anyway.

Meeps are naturally drawn to him, but he could also go looking for them. They could have different effects dependinjg on whether thwy find Bard, or Bard finds them. The biggest difference would be that he can actively increase the number of available Meeps, which could be adjusted my lowering the number of drawn in meeps.

I can be adjusted to be very little difference in gameplay, but it would be a bit more rounded thematically. That is unless the chimes have a symbolic meaning I'm missing.

RiotMeddlerFeb 24, 201513 votes

We did look at whether Bard should collect Meeps directly. That lead to situations where Bard went through extended periods of no Meeps at all however if unable to roam sufficiently. It also left Bards feeling they had to try for a kill immediately on returning to lane (otherwise he either never auto attacked or would spend his Meeps before he really wanted them). Very boom or bust gameplay and we do want the Meeps to offer a consistent contribution to Bard, given his non combat/non damage tools as above.

junglerboy16Feb 24, 20154 votes

{quoted}

That's pretty accurate. Meeps damage is there, and scales over the course of the game, in part to offset Bard's lack of other damaging abilities and the way some of his skills (E especially, W and R to a lesser degree) lack immediate combat impact.

Meeps also give a clear, discreet way of providing power from his collection game, adding some different decision making and optimisation into how that power's used (rather than giving raw stats, which can also be an appropriate choice but is something we've already got on offer on other champions).

Hey, thanks for the reply Meddler!

I was just wondering, does Bard have any way of seeing his chimes show up on the map at all? or does he actually have to see them directly from within his vision range? If they do show up on the map, that would be awesome for the mini game aspect of roaming around to collect them and then being able to plan routes to "help X lane and then collect this chime before roaming to this lane for this chime" etc.

RiotMeddlerFeb 24, 201516 votes

Bard can indeed see his Chimes on the minimap once they've spawned, regardless of whether that's in fog of war or not.

CrettFeb 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Bard can indeed see his Chimes on the minimap once they've spawned, regardless of whether that's in fog of war or not.

Is Bard infinitely scaling? Is there a limit to his Meep's power potential, or will we be seeing late game meeps of doom?

IcyPepperFeb 25, 20152 votes

Will chimes spawn on the enemy side, or will there be enough on the ally side for Bard to be safe while roaming?

VerandureFeb 25, 20152 votes

From what I see on the PBE, they spawn on both sides, sometimes VERY deep in enemy territory.

VesarixxFeb 25, 201524 votes

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/16800000/Beaker-beaker-16860984-321-351.jpg Meeps

Blue Moon WolfFeb 25, 20156 votes

ha ha ha, agreed Beaker :)

DatPikachuThoFeb 25, 20152 votes

It's a 'shoop.

I can tell from the pixels and having seen a few 'shoops in my time.

KingsgraveFeb 24, 201516 votes

His autos get stronger because he can only deal damage with autos and Q.

The5lackerFeb 24, 201513 votes

Bard's AA steroid serves the exact same role as Sona's AA steroid: Increasing harassment potential. Bard is a harassment support: He doesn't really have the raw defense to protect an ally nor the hard CC to lock them down outside of his ult. His job is to win a war of attrition and wander around providing pressure to lanes: Because he only has the one damaging ability, he needs something to help him out with that goal outside of just cranking up the damage on that one ability. cough cough

I hate the complaints about "Oh man, this champion has two passives, so OP, so complex!" It's the world's dumbest complaint. Do not judge a champion on its parts: Judge a champion on its whole. Does Bard, as a whole, seem OP? Does Bard, as a whole, seem overly complex? No. Not really. So it doesn't matter how many passives he has so long as those two lines aren't crossed. He could have a dozen passives, but as long as they were all simple, minor, and serve his character concept, it doesn't fucking matter. Complain about things that are actually a problem, like the ability to assassinate targets while building tanky, or the ability to escape from every fight, or the fact that an ability ostensibly about displacement and disruption has been reduced to a single target execution due to its stupid scaling.

Yes I am talking about single-passive-having Lee Sin right now.

PokladnicaZlaFeb 24, 20153 votes

He isn't a harras-support,he is a raoming support.

He does have hard CC,his Q(which can be a double stun..)

The5lackerFeb 24, 20157 votes

He has a single, highly situational hard CC and even if he's roaming, he's still going to be harassing while roaming, which is the entire reason he roams.

RiotMeddlerFeb 24, 201518 votes

We're hoping to see some other reasons to roam a bit as well too, whether that's throwing down Shrines in other lanes until needed, helping your jungler bypass walls, warding deeper than you normally would or whatever. Really interested to see what people make of this guy and how his toolkit gets used.

ChimeiTekinaNasuFeb 24, 20154 votes

Wait....so he's another tank support like Braum?? =/

Darn. Day 200: Still waiting on that new tanky melee top laner, not half-tank/half-squish Gnar

Edit: The downvotes are so real. -12 in less than a day. lol. Everyone really hates tanky melee tops, I guess. Seems I'm the only one that still likes tank melee tops.

junglerboy16Feb 25, 20151 votes

He actually looks like he will be a squishy AP utility support. He isn't really comparable to anything else in the game right now, but he looks sort of like a cross between High utility, low damage, and moderate mobility.

ChimeiTekinaNasuFeb 25, 20151 votes

I actually decided to do a match on PBE last night before I went to bed. Ours tried the roaming support thing and fed mid 3 kills. Enemy went legit jungle Bard and it somehow worked. Man, he was so squishy though. I thought he'd be tankier from how he looked.

junglerboy16Feb 25, 20152 votes

I understand what you're saying, but to me, I immediately thought of a giant pillow, and then a giant beard, and then that inflatable robot from that movie a few months ago.

KonidiasFeb 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

We're hoping to see some other reasons to roam a bit as well too, whether that's throwing down Shrines in other lanes until needed, helping your jungler bypass walls, warding deeper than you normally would or whatever. Really interested to see what people make of this guy and how his toolkit gets used.

My big question is whether or not Bard can use the health packs he drops... Is that possible? Also do the health packs have a lifespan or limit?

killd0zerFeb 24, 20152 votes

He can limit: 3 No max duration

AlorasenceFeb 24, 20151 votes

Do you have any worry that he'll be out of lane so often that he'll fall behind in experience? Do you worry that experience loss will hold him back from committing to his roams?

RiotMeddlerFeb 25, 201517 votes

There's experience on Chime pick up in part to avoid that problem, so that spending more time out of lane than normal (up to a limit of course, eventually you run out of Chimes to collect) feels rewarding rather than punishing.

Sp00ky SenpaiFeb 25, 20154 votes

{quoted}

There's experience on Chime pick up in part to avoid that problem, so that spending more time out of lane than normal (up to a limit of course, eventually you run out of Chimes to collect) feels rewarding rather than punishing.

Could you clarify "run out of chimes" please? Specifically is there a limit to them like 10 or 50? Do they spawn randomly around his current location as the game goes on? Or are there spawns at specific locations that they spawn at once and never spawn again?

Im asking because ill be buying him (and probably his alt skin) on release and playing the hell out of him for the next month or year depending on his roaming mechanic. I very much hope that there aren't a limit to say 20 pre set 1 time spawn across both allied and enemy jungles and instead are 20 pre set multiple timed spawns across the map instead throughout the game .

I just cant see you roaming with bard if you can only get chimes in a location once.

RiotMeddlerFeb 25, 20156 votes

Chimes spawn in semi random locations at fairly regular intervals. They'll keep doing so as long as the game lasts. If all you're doing is collecting Chimes however you'll be spending a lot of time waiting and not doing anything (you'll temporarily run out of new ones to collect), which is why we're expecting Bard players to still spend a lot of time doing other stuff.

Father CthulhuFeb 24, 20152 votes

Except he actually does have hard cc... His q can stun both bot laners at the same time.

Ariel the CruelFeb 25, 20154 votes

good luck.

That would mean lining up both laners without hitting a minion before or in between.

BlackSunNocturneFeb 24, 201512 votes

I seriously like Bard.

Still going to ban him a lot though, because that is a Dota2-style "screw over your entire team if you fuck up" ult if I've ever seen one.

Also yeah, the passive of getting more Auto-attack damage is needed since it's his only form of damage outside of his Q

DarkenedSoul420Feb 25, 20157 votes

Yeah prepare for the raging adc's "NO SUPPORT GG" and yes the ult is definitely going to get some people chewed out lol.

However he does look really fun and honestly he seems like a strong support to have without roaming to other lanes. Time will tell but I'm definitely gonna pick him up when he comes out

Oh and the tower dive potential is strong in this one. item 3070 item 3056

junglerboy16Feb 25, 20152 votes

I think Riot finally tipped over the "This is really cool and only a few people will troll with it" edge with Kalista's passive and ult, and they are now fine with putting in champions that have small trolling potential, but allows for even more unique abilities.

ZmuecatFeb 24, 201510 votes

I feel like in a couple of weeks, if not minutes, he will be the most complained about thing.

Granted, that's par for the course, but everyone and their dog will be coming here and complaining that Bard just trolled their team or "I WAS MINDING MY BUSINESS IN THE JUNGLE AND ALL OF A SUDDENT 5 PEOPLE APPEARED OUT OF A WALL, who in the hell decided to give a champion the ability to give (literally, friend or foe) EVERYONE a free escape over any wall?"

I will play him because he looks like a support support, not an all in monster, but I look forward to both the crying and the changes after his release.

Ariel the CruelFeb 24, 201510 votes

Kalista Ha Ha Ha Ha HA HA! I'm the undisputed master of trolling!

[Bard] Not any more!

Trundle There's something wrong here. . .

StephenizgodFeb 25, 20151 votes

Dont forget those Anivia walls... Oh what fun trolls have blocking you off from the rest of your team or from getting farm or under enemy turret....

PartholonianFeb 25, 20155 votes

Can he put a gate in Anivia wall or Jarvan ult? That could be pretty damn funny. "DEMA-- hey, where'd you go?"

PhoenixSlayer13Feb 24, 20157 votes

That passive damage is kinda needed, otherwise his only damage source would be his Q.

OrokiyamFeb 24, 20155 votes

I have a question about the chimes: Do allies and enemies see them or its only Bard? Because I can already see the Teemo putting shrooms on every chimes on the map.

XaviorZeroBlazerFeb 24, 20154 votes

I only have this to say, his skills are such that someone will make a jungler out of him even if it kills them. Someone somewhere will find a way

SociopathFriendFeb 25, 20154 votes

You've got to give Riot credit. I look through the champion concept section and see a lot of stuff very similar to what already exists.

(That doesn't make the ideas bad mind you)

But this? This is brand spanking new, this is what Riot pays their people for. clap clap Well done design team, ggwp.

DrakzulFeb 24, 20153 votes

Am I the only one that sees his potential at duo Jungling? With a little coordination he could be a monster support jungler. Especially with his bonus exp to keep him from falling behind while giving the majority of buffs to the main jungle... His ganks alone will be terrifying, all of the sudden two people appear out of a wall to obliterate you. Scary stuff.

Ariel the CruelFeb 25, 20152 votes

I don't see him becoming a dedicated "jungler support".

I do see him committing to a double gank.

The Ideal scenario I see coming out of this:

Get a strong roaming mid.
Bard and jungler camp mid till it's non-existant.
???
profit.

Don't forget, Bard's roaming will give the ADC a level advantage. As long as they can survive the 2v1 lane.

Now that's scary. Especially if you're helping mid Zed. Now everybody is screwed.

The Aqua SnakeFeb 25, 20152 votes

That Windrunner ShackleShot on Bard's Q though!

Riot has been playing alot of Windrunner in Dota 2 I see.

Was she inspiration?

the Anarchit3chtFeb 25, 20152 votes

Probably not. I think it's funny how someone see's similar abilities and always assumed someone ripped it off. I assure you there were similar abilities that existed in games long before Dota 2 was even a thought.