I honestly feel like Sorcery, resolve and inspiration deserve a 4th Keystone

xxxMadLionxxx·Oct 29, 2018·55 votes·15,223 views

title...

35 Comments

AhpeOct 29, 201834 votes

#Riot:

https://pics.me.me/im-working-on-it-so-please-fuck-off-your-cards-5177009.png

deadlychuckOct 29, 201813 votes

Naw, the Yellow and Red (idk their names) will probably get a 5th before each of those get a 4th.

Riot has a blatant bias towards offense, and more precisely AD, because it's just an easier to work with when they've allowed it to expand to fill the role of basically every other stat in the game.

Sharpest glassesOct 30, 20181 votes

The 4th in domination is useless for most domination user (only Jhin use it iirc).

deadlychuckOct 30, 20181 votes

I'm not saying that they're all going to be useful. Only that riot cares more about making them.

ModKnightsKemplarOct 30, 201810 votes

Someone suggested early on that the new shield bash rune should be a keystone. I agree.

DeathBurstOct 30, 20181 votes

Why? A Keystone must have more impact, so you can expect a bigger CD and bigger damage. I think the rune is fine as a minor.

ModKnightsKemplarOct 30, 20181 votes

so you can expect a bigger CD and bigger damage

That's definitely not the only way to balance it. Klepto has a 2 second cooldown; you don't have to have a long CD on a keystone for it to work. And that's precisely why I think this would be good. It would add variety to the Keystone choices.

I'd rather have it as a keystone so that the effect justifies the mental acuity required to keep track of it. What I don't want is for it to be such a minor effect that it doesn't get noticed. The runes that give invisible power are the least interesting ones, imo. I want to notice Shield Bash when it activates, particularly when you get the damage from an auto on it.

DeathBurstOct 30, 20181 votes

You definitely have what is essentially a long CD on Klepto. It's on getting an item, not on getting a proc, but the point still stands: Keystones give more impactful effects (cool items) with a longer delay.

And you don't need to keep track of it in the current version. Get a shield? Get a proc. Simple as that, there is no condition or CD or anything. So the burden of "keeping track of it" doesn't seem a good justification to move it to the keystone slot.

Last point, a LOT of minor runes are pretty much invisible. Seriously, it'd be faster to list the few that are not. It's a purposeful decision by Riot to limit the mental burden of minor runes, and that's one of the reason they justified the removal of Bone Plating.

So all in all, I'm even more convinced now that you forced me to articulate it clearly ^^' Shield Bash as it is is low burden and fits well among other minor runes. Changing it to a Keystone would need a lot of work to make it significantly different than the current version, and I can't see why that'd be a good thing.

Another entirely unrelated argument is the one made by Critmaster Garen, about the fact that Shield Bash is very conditional. It is NOT "usable by all champs with various degrees of effectiveness", some champs just can't use it at all. I disagree with Critmaster that it's a problem for a minor rune, but if you'd be to swap it for a Keystone, then I'd say it's a much more important issue.

HupsisOct 31, 20182 votes

Disagreed. It's a rune that's supposed to be an option for variety of champions, not just those who pick resolve as primary. For example an ADC who has a shield based support or self shields could pick it but won't if it's stuck in the resolve keystones.

I think the latest iteration which gives bonus armor and mr to shields is a general effect that could benefit anyone and can even promote picking barrier as a summoner spell... but only if it's available as a regular rune. As a keystone it would only be viable on characters that can regularly apply shields to themselves, cause who would pick a keystone that otherwise requires shields from allies.

Warlord RhinarkOct 30, 201810 votes

#DEATHFIRE TOUCH

E

A

T

H

F

I

R

E

T

O

U

C

H

KídáOct 30, 20181 votes

Please yes, cries in

Lovelle IIOct 29, 20187 votes

I just want the old runes/mastery system back. The new runes don't give me everything I need without sacrificing something else important. With the old runes I could have AD and/or AS reds, HP per lvl or armor yellows, 1.5% movespeed and reach 20% CDR through runes alone, letting me easily cap CDR without building a bunch of CDR items by level 18. This was also while being able to get damage, resistances/HP, plus sustain amps from masteries.

The new runes offer far less, especially when it comes to resistances and HP. Instead, nearly every rune just gives you damage instead. It essentially just turns the game into a huge DPS check, where champions that can deal damage the most reliably (in all classes) are the ones that will always be picked. Since no one but overtuned tanks can survive damage output in large fights, the champions with the least amount of front-loaded damage are going to forever struggle.

Nearly all the damage needs to be removed from runes and replaced with something creative. The Inspiration tree is a step in the right direction and most of the runes should be like this, accommodating a champions strengths and/or covering their weaknesses through creative, yet indirect means rather than braindead damage boosts. Inspiration would be good if it didn't have to compete with straight up damage boosts from the other trees. The Resolve tree shouldn't have any damage at all, but instead be full of abilities that help counter damage instead of accommodating it.

Lil Homie bustaOct 29, 20187 votes

Comet nor Aery are Keystones properly made for sustained damage like DFG;

Resolve is ok I guess, except the lack of minor runes that speak up for the tree's objective ("Live Forever", but it's more like "Here, take some more damage")

Inspiration will always be open for more Keystones, since it's the thinking-outside-the-box tree.

Daddy AntsOct 30, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lil Homie busta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pKU4EVrc,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-10-29T23:59:35.171+0000)

Comet nor Aery are Keystones properly made for sustained damage like DFG;

Resolve is ok I guess, except the lack of minor runes that speak up for the tree's objective ("Live Forever", but it's more like "Here, take some more damage")

Inspiration will always be open for more Keystones, since it's the thinking-outside-the-box tree.

Mages are not sustained damage champions though.

The class is built around burst damage.

ApollyonBainerOct 30, 201811 votes

So what should someone lilke fiddle take? Aery? Thunderlords? Grasp? Tanklestick, attacklesticks, crittlesticks, on-hittlesticks, supportlesticks, middlesticks

Flawless FetusOct 30, 20187 votes

Nope. Those are called burst mages. Lol. Azir/Ryze/Cass are more about dps. I'm sure there are more, they just popped into my head instantly. Hell, you can throw teemo in there if you want to. Lol.

HeimerLmaoOct 30, 20181 votes

Vlad, old Swain, not sure who else.

KídáOct 30, 20182 votes

Swain Vladimir Cassiopeia Fiddlesticks Karthus Hear that guys? Your suppose to be burst. Guess its time for a rework...

MrDrBuddOct 30, 20183 votes

If all mages were centered around burst damage then the term "burst mage" wouldn't be necessary.

CIaymanOct 30, 20182 votes

That's odd, because most champions who come to mind when I think of mages are DPS champions

Cassiopeia Malzahar AurelionSol Viktor

LightIsMyPathOct 30, 20184 votes

I would love for inspiration to get a keystone focused on spells. Right now it has a keystone focused on summoner spells and. 2 applied through autoattacks. I love the rest of the tree but as a long range mage who really benefits from 2 summoner spells I feel without a keystone. I would really like some effect applied when hitting my spells (a slow, some cdr, a ms buff, a debuff.. Something)

TormentulaOct 29, 20183 votes

I feel like we need a new domination keystone and hail of blades should be moved to sorcery (would be more beneficial for azir, teemo, kayle,and some marksmen if they don't want to take the percision tree, like what champ would utilize cheap shot and sudden impact with hail of blades well, you might as well just go electrocute and need less autos.)

Question tho is what exactly do we want for those other trees?

PsyrixOct 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I feel like we need a new domination keystone and hail of blades should be moved to sorcery (would be more beneficial for azir, teemo, kayle,and some marksmen if they don't want to take the percision tree, like what champ would utilize cheap shot and sudden impact with hail of blades well, you might as well just go electrocute and need less autos.)

Question tho is what exactly do we want for those other trees?

Kindred, Vayne, quinn, Jax, quite a few more lol

JaspersOct 29, 20183 votes

For Resolve. Move Shield Bash as a Keystone, leave Bone Plating as is (or if Riot don't like it, nerf it a little).

M00ndanc3Oct 30, 20183 votes

Sorcery: being in combat with a champion for longer than 4 seconds cause your next spell to restore % of mana based on the number of spells cast during the 4s build up. Spells do increased damage based on % mana. Resolve: gain %dmg reduction/ hp regen based on the # of champions near you up to % Insperation: Turret care package: every X mins recieve a passive item (like heim kits) that allow you to temporarily increase turret hp regen and attack speed

don't know how good these would work in game (why i didnt put any #) but i feel it would satisfy a lot of things. Non damage focused runes, turrets improvement, and a prevention against the vast amount of pen for tanks (doesnt fix true damage though).

FlemmanOct 30, 20182 votes

even if they do, we all know what kind of keystone they will add, something for ad damage dealer like per usual :p

Get Ogre HereOct 30, 20181 votes

I think they just don't want to swoop in with all those changes to balance too quickly, especially with preseason coming a lot Riot's got a lot on their plate. I'd expect more keystones (and maybe the new dragon they promised so long ago) during Season 9.

IOffMeta GtOvrItOct 30, 20181 votes

I think the one thing that could make the cloud drake more attractive is the out of combat effects. LIke maybe a small attack speed boost for a few seconds? Not sure if that can be balanced properly or not, or an attack based on movespeed like celerity used to do? Just some thoughts.

Get Ogre HereOct 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I think the one thing that could make the cloud drake more attractive is the out of combat effects. LIke maybe a small attack speed boost for a few seconds? Not sure if that can be balanced properly or not, or an attack based on movespeed like celerity used to do? Just some thoughts.

I mean some high elo players as well as LCS casters actually think cloud drake is one of the better dragons, I mean it's good for the utility but unless I have 2 or 3 it's kinda hard to notice a difference. I think Cloud will actually be buffed with the Celerity rework because it'll increase the move speed buff.