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I just lose the game if I gank anything other than bot lane.

option paralysis··61 votes·3,643 views

Good game riot, so much fun. I just lost 7/8 games cuz I was retarded enough to try and gank mid or top. Fuck me for being a retard amirite. I should just evolve into a secondary slave for bot lane and just forget my farm, forget getting 2 infernals, and just gank bot lane, cuz lord knows adcs are my overlords and I'm just a petty slave for them. Jesus christ, is it so hard to up the price on these ridiculous 2600g items ? item 3087 item 3046 item 3094 Like holy fuck. And Lulu paired with any adc is actually so cancer, I wanna uninstall league right now, I'm so tilted out of my mind. Had a 65% win rate with udyr, and now I lost 7 games in a row, because I just couldn't get to that kog lulu, kalista lulu, vayne with whoever the fuck. I just got right clicked to death without even reaching them. Never been this tilted. This is even worse than the dynamic q year, check your LCS, games are 60 mins long because everyone is so scared to give 1 kill, because they know what's gonna happen after that. Whole year of enduring the adc slave meta. I was d2 last season and then dropped to d5 cuz bot lanes decided the game in 5 mins. d4 right now and I don't enjoy the game AT ALL. WAKE UP RIOT. Same thing happening again, just before I reached d2. You can try giving us "we're working on adcs not being mandatory in bot lane" crap, when it's coming in like 4 months. Watch any stream, nobody likes the game, everyone is so tilted and they just play cuz thats how they make money. And what are you doing about it ? Kog is 53% win rate 15% pick rate, tristana fed in every game, vayne still right clicking everyone to death, at least you're gutting kalista thank god, xayah right clicking me for 700 crits per auto. Combine that with lulu/janna and just... I don't have any words anymore. I wanna jungle and help all of my team, but when you gank top or mid and get a kill and you hear "enemy double kill", you know the game is over. I'm really just so sad, cuz I still like the game, but I just don't understand why am I being FORCED to camp bot lane and why are adcs dominating this game for over a year... ?

ahhh, whatever rant over, lets q up for another game and lets get rightclicked by whichever adc with 80% crit.

69 Comments

SoundChaosDebug13 votes

I'm right-click rick

https://i.imgur.com/iv1r4NZ.png

ModWulf Helhammer10 votes

It’s math. If bot lane gets fed, then that’s 2 members ahead on fed team, two members behind on the other. Compared to every other lane, with only a 1:1 conversion.

And as others have said, when you have a lane that’s constantly pushing and not being warded, it’s an easy gank. And then you add in a guaranteed damage source and more lockdown, it becomes even easier.

EssenceOfPoo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Wolf King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pE4V1H4F,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-01-28T15:42:31.128+0000)

It’s math. If bot lane gets fed, then that’s 2 members ahead on fed team, two members behind on the other. Compared to every other lane, with only a 1:1 conversion.

And as others have said, when you have a lane that’s constantly pushing and not being warded, it’s an easy gank. And then you add in a guaranteed damage source and more lockdown, it becomes even easier.

^ this

everyone complains about how snowbally the game is. but no one acknowledges that 2 bot ahead (on one side) and 2 bot behind (on the other side) equals a "difference of 4" in other words. (obligatory 2+2 is 4 minus 1 that's 3. quick math) [slayer-jinx-wink]

and a "difference of 4" is HUGE. essentially, you have a 6 v 4 or 7 v 3 to put it simply.

Lauchmelder6 votes

This would then mean that if your top and midlane are ahead it's essentially a 6v4 for you. That's not the case.

EssenceOfPoo1 votes

if your top and midlane are ahead it's essentially a 6v4 for you

well, like you said, top AND midlane. (not top OR midlane). sort of like marksman AND support.

SlampieceHawke1 votes

However, there is more math to be added to this equation. That being a duo lane splits exp. Add in other factors to this equation such as team fight composition, ward coverage, and playing the map. With every number or factor put into the equation, repeatedly ganking bot lane is not always going to be the answer. It can even put you behind if you keep repeatedly striking the same lane while the enemy adapts to it... resulting in wasted time or death. War and battles are won through deception thus in order to win, you can't just keep predictably going bot.

mrnm9 votes

What the fuck is this? diamond op stating what is wrong with the game and million silver players come in stating "that's not how it works" "you must be low elo". Seriously

SociopathFriend7 votes

Not saying either of that is right or wrong but I will point out one of his complaints is he cannot reach an ADC as Udyr- which comes across as not very shocking at all.

Executioner2 votes

Agreed.

Kokua8 votes

One of my most balanced games recently was almost exclusively gank top/mid. Their jungle tried to gank us bot several times, but we were smart enough to have vision, and knew when to pull back down at bot.

Ratpie2 votes

{quoted}

One of my most balanced games recently was almost exclusively gank top/mid. Their jungle tried to gank us bot several times, but we were smart enough to have vision, and knew when to pull back down at bot.

If only people would take this to heart. When bot is pushing hard the whole time and then gets easy ganked, and then whines that I need to gank bot more when they have the enemy under tower every time...... Warding and freezing lane kills a lot of gank possibilities, and you can limit CS if you have some pressure from jungler and you have some harass.

T I L T B O I7 votes

sounds like you're in silver/low gold

that's how everyone plays the game in that elo because

  1. Junglers don't know what to do and bot lane are easy kills because;
  2. Bot laners don't ward enough and constantly push, even more than mid laners.

which makes it extremely easy to win as a smurf adc because you can just sit back and collect triples all day and hard carry

Xion The XIV1 votes

I wish I had your silver and gold players. My enemy bot lane constantly had everything warded. While my bot lane never destroys wards. I want the easy kills, but thankfully the ADC's are still stupid once both bot towers are gone they go and free farm. So that is a plus.

T I L T B O I2 votes

{quoted}

I wish I had your silver and gold players. My enemy bot lane constantly had everything warded. While my bot lane never destroys wards. I want the easy kills, but thankfully the ADC's are still stupid once both bot towers are gone they go and free farm. So that is a plus.

i mean, silver and gold players are not equal, it's like 90% of the player base, and every one of them is good at something and terrible at something else, with a few exceptions where people are just bad at everything and swept in the current, or good at everything and just tilt easy, are smurfing, get perma'd a lot, etc

karolmo2 votes

{quoted}

I wish I had your silver and gold players. My enemy bot lane constantly had everything warded. While my bot lane never destroys wards. I want the easy kills, but thankfully the ADC's are still stupid once both bot towers are gone they go and free farm. So that is a plus.

I'm platinum, main adc.

We towerdive bot at level 6 4v2 not giving a fuck about wards, just all in towerdive, if they run back we get tower then drake then roam to mid and get kill + tower while their bot is still coming back from base. When we don't, we get towerdived at 7 when the wave pushes back.

Whoever gets the double first stomps botlane, gets drake, roams to mid, gets mid tower, then switches lanes with top, gets herald and top tower.

I wish i had your games.

Xion The XIV1 votes

sadly when i tried that it just feels aweful. I help bot stomp top feeds and mid is either feeding or never fallows the enemy mid on ganks. If I help top bot loses and mid is the same as before. I don't it just seems what ever lane I help the lane on the opposite side decided to face tank under tower.

option paralysis13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dank Rat Memes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pE4V1H4F,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-28T12:25:36.689+0000)

  1. Junglers don't know what to do and bot lane are easy kills because;

Idk what do you mean by that. If they camp bot and win the game. They don't know what else to do but win the game ? If I try to countergank we just lose 3v3 if I didn't gank it before, meaning I have to camp bot too.

T I L T B O I4 votes

[{quoted}](name=d5 is my legacy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pE4V1H4F,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-01-28T13:03:16.954+0000)

Idk what do you mean by that. If they camp bot and win the game. They don't know what else to do but win the game ? If I try to countergank we just lose 3v3 if I didn't gank it before, meaning I have to camp bot too.

what i mean is, low elo junglers lack the ability to win the game by doing anything other than camping the easiest lane and exploiting a weak point, they don't counter jungle well, they don't counter gank at all, often aren't very good at securing objectives, or picking the right lane to help, so you'll see both junglers constantly camping bot, or at least one, and the bot lane that's better will often win the team the game because you've got 6 of 10 players in that one spot with mid and top doing god knows what, obviously top and mid carry sometimes, obviously there are junglers that camp other lanes more than bot, but majority of the time until mid to high plat you're gonna see the same shit over and over again

Pumping Iron12 votes

[deleted]

Ratpie9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pumping Iron,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pE4V1H4F,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-01-28T14:58:05.413+0000)

Man, i think you are overrating your iq. Just stop commenting please, you dumb af. Stop making this comment section so awkward.

Or maybe humble yourself and learn. He is spot on.

If your bot lane is smart, wards and freezes lane, not only do you have a better chance at ganking, but the other jungler can hang out bot all day and be useless and fall behind in cs and level. A lot of jg do not counter the other jungler, or rotate with their ganks in a smart way. Just had a game where bot had a decent matchup, and the other team had aggressive jungler so we communicated and they froze lane and kept wards up. They had a Vayne top vs our melee which could have ended with a fed Vayne, so I kept wards in enemy jungle so I could see when their jungler would go top and stop him, and also eat Vayne when possible. Vayne could not get anything done with our pressure. Bot held fine and their jungler got behind because he spent quite some time at bot trying to get a gank that didnt work out, and we got some nice kills because they had their lane froze I could come in from behind and their team could not get away fast enough. In lower ranked games junglers and ADCs both struggle with these ideas, hell even quite a few higher elo champs don't do it all that well.

GelsominoKiller6 votes

I don't understand, you're silver 5 and talk about what high elo players do, depite having a Diamond jungle OP stating clearly an issue. From my experience I can tell you I feel the same as him.

The only time it's profitable to gank anything but bot is:

  • bot is ungankable for any reason, and it's too risky to dive, and you have no information to predict a countergank

  • giving an early lead to your solo laners, if they are against a matchup they can abuse and you can reasonably expect your botlane to be safe and not die to an early fight or gank

Ratpie2 votes

I have played this game long enough to have played many different skill levels and from my experience I agree with Dank as to what is going on at bronze/silver levels. I just started doing ranked after not doing it last season so I am playing through it right now and it feels like EZ mode because they do exactly what he said. No wards, too much pushing. I am in no way countering OP just rather countering Pumping's attack on another poster. There is a problem with the way people play as the OP describes it, but there are also ways to counter it without spending your life at bot, BUT it requires your bot lane to adhere to certain strategies when you are ganking other lanes. It also takes good communication, which if you are not a 5 man group, you lack some and you never know what skill level you will really play with as a lot of people are at levels they should not be. I think part of the problem is that with a fed ADC right now you can climb pretty fast in ranked, so you have a lot of people thinking they can do the same and not playing the roles properly and feeding. I think that is what the OP is partially frustrated with. A good bot lane duo is not going to get double killed that easyjust because their top lane is ganking top. if they have the wards in place and are playing smart. If they are being aggressive AF when their JG is on the other side of the map then they are going to get ganked every time.

Lil Homie busta7 votes

Obvious troll is obvious.

Either that or you're a man-child.

PePsiLemoNN4 votes

So perma gank bot and go to challenger with 100% winrate right?

HavinABadTiem4 votes

{quoted}

So perma gank bot and go to challenger with 100% winrate right?

Let me find some lighter fluid so I can set that straw man ablaze.

Pinkaj4 votes

Game needs to just not be so focused on bot lane in general. A double kill on bot lane = snowball/ff@15

SlampieceHawke5 votes

Not at all the case. That's not how it always turns out. Also, bot lane has to split exp. Your bot lane could be popping off while your solo laners are getting crushed and your jungler is getting crushed. This thought process that bot lane is the most important is a complete and utter fallacy. Not to mention team compositions and map play outside of the bot lane also exist.

Pinkaj1 votes

{quoted}

Not at all the case. That's not how it always turns out. Also, bot lane has to split exp. Your bot lane could be popping off while your solo laners are getting crushed and your jungler is getting crushed. This thought process that bot lane is the most important is a complete and utter fallacy. Not to mention team compositions and map play outside of the bot lane also exist.

I know, but teammates are more likely to get toxic when bot lane gets a double kill, then when top and jg die for a double kill. I don't mean to start another argument, I'm really just saying what I've been hearing often. [sg-soraka]

Mister Modesty1 votes

You sound like the Ezreal I just reported for saying GG 2 minutes in then spammed surrender every chance he got.

Pinkaj1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mister Modesty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pE4V1H4F,comment-id=000c0001,timestamp=2018-01-29T06:48:29.822+0000)

You sound like the Ezreal I just reported for saying GG 2 minutes in then spammed surrender every chance he got.

That's...upsetting.

  1. I never start a surrender vote
  2. I main support
  3. I've never played Ezreal But please, I don't intend to start an argument, or to make people upset. I'll leave gameplay now, I know I'm not meant to be here. [sg-soraka]
Stranger Teams4 votes

Kek. That's why when a friend of mine camps me mid while I'm playing a snowbally champ, I usually destroy the game, no matter how fed the ennemy botlane is. The game is no such thing as black & white. Each game is different, each game will eventually get carried by either a leader (any laner / the jungler) or the whole team. Sometimes I destroy a game while playing mid, sometimes my top does it, sometimes my jungler, sometimes my bot. And sometimes it's just the team with the greatest cohesion and spirit, making the plays, who will win. But w/e, the hate train on ADCs nowadays ¯_(ツ)_/¯

DoktorKaiser1 votes

If you play braindead assassins you can carry, good luck being useful with any mage in the game, even fucking Malzahar

Stranger Teams1 votes

So you just made my point :) The game is not "gank botlane or lose" :) I can play midlane assassins and carry my games, with my jungler by my side. Meanwhile our botlane can be hard feeding and it doesnt have to be a problem everytime. Btw you can carry with mages aswell.

DoktorKaiser1 votes

I meant that they carry by abusing domination tree to burst you at level 2-3 and then they push hard and roam bot thus snowballing their ADC who carries. I never meant to say that they themselves carry. The game is in a very sad state.

Stranger Teams1 votes

Alright, yeah of course, so if they win their midlane, invade the ennemy jungle with their jungler, roam to top and bot in order to help everyone out, deal insane AoE dammages in teamfights, then I guess they are not carrying, right ? They are just waiting for the Almighty ADC to carry ? How narrow-minded can you guys just be ? That's at the same time so lame and so fun. Proud to be part of that community ! Thanksfully there are still great people doing fun or smart threads or comments, but seems like the memes on the "gameplay" section are damn right.

PopcornBunni4 votes

I don't know what you're talking about

what's wrong with ranged mixed damage item 3087 burst item 3031 AoE item 3085 sustained item 3036 draintanks item 3072 ?

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

I don't know what you're talking about

what's wrong with ranged mixed damage item 3087 burst item 3031 AoE item 3085 sustained item 3036 draintanks item 3072 ?

10/10

Nymzo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=d5 is my legacy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pE4V1H4F,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-01-28T12:18:44.428+0000)

Had a 65% win rate with udyr, and now I lost 7 games in a row

There's your problem.

While we all know the issues that we have right now but picking Udyr is asking to lose.

If people struggle to play Darius despite him having a pull, I cannot imagine how difficult it is to play a champ who can only run at someone and auto them to death with no ranged attacks or spells.

Any decent support can deny you as long as they have one cc, some cdr and maybe a few items active. That's not mentionning their adc if they have self-peel themselves.

jmp2313 votes

I don’t see why people complain about “all adc do is right click to win.” Umm what’s else are they suppose to do? Just use spells and that’s it? They’re not mages. But I do agree they are stupid strong right now. Things like kogmaw melting people with 2 items is ridiculous

Wimbledofy1 votes

It's the supports making them unkillable that's the real problem. Kog'maw by himself isn't really busted, it's the kog'maw + lulu/janna that is busted. I don't mind adc's being able to destroy our team as long as we can destroy him just as easily.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

It's the supports making them unkillable that's the real problem. Kog'maw by himself isn't really busted, it's the kog'maw + lulu/janna that is busted. I don't mind adc's being able to destroy our team as long as we can destroy him just as easily.

lets blame EVERYTHING ELSE in the game instead of the common issue between all the scenarios.

Wimbledofy1 votes

Supports aren't a common issue? They are in every game.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Supports aren't a common issue? They are in every game.

Supports are only an issue because they currently protect the most broken class in the the game.

Wimbledofy1 votes

There are a few broken adc's, the class itself isn't broken. It can be said this way too; the adcs are only an issue because they are protected by the most broken class in the game.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

There are a few broken adc's, the class itself isn't broken. It can be said this way too; the adcs are only an issue because they are protected by the most broken class in the game.

oh please. It isn't even a specific subclass of ADCs running rampant. ADCs across the board are problematic atm. Crit , on hit, atk speed, Lethality abusers, it doesn't matter. they are all causing shit right now.

The ones that are weak are the exception to the rule, not the other way around. And they are the exception to the rule because they were already generally weak compared to the meta ADCs.

The class ass a whole is broken and OP, plain and simple.

Altonius Amakiir3 votes

I'm not sure you are as good at jungle as you think you might be. But before we get to that, lets hit up all your other statements:

farming isn't as important as ganking - that may be a problem

just because you can get a drake doesn't mean its the best thing to do

Sure those items are 2600 gold, but they only offer attack speed and crit (and some movement speed), they don't offer as much damage as you think they do. The energize abilities are strong, but they usually won't proc more than once or twice in a fight.

Lulu is actually balanced right now, if anything her shield might be a bit much right now, but part of that is a shield/heal stacking issue that Riot is currently working on. As for Vayne, she got nerfed, she isn't that strong anymore.

Try not to write a post while tilted if you want it to be taken seriously by anyone. All this post is doing is upvote farming from other tilted people. You haven't made much of any factual claims. All you have done is point out winrates, which by themselves means nothing. The winrate data we have available to us is also unreliable.

Also how many sweeping generalizations and assumptions are you going to make?

53% winrate is fairly balanced for a low skill champion like Kog'maw. He might need a small hit to bring him down to 52%, but by no means is he vastly out of place. And again, this winrate is unreliable. Riot has the only reliable winrate data, and they don't share it publicly.

As for your losing streak: 1 game you lost before 10 minutes, it looks like your bot lane trolled you and opened bot lane. Don't go blaming that on the state of the game.

As for the rest of the games I would at least partially contribute that to you. My opinion is the biggest factor was you, but that is an assumption, take with a grain of salt. First off, Udyr has very limited ways to gank, he is not always the right choice. You can't go blaming a Lulu (with an 80% slow and polymorph) as being the reason you lost when you chose Udyr into that, THEN decided to try to gank them. Same with Vayne and Janna. Sure flash can help with the slows, but they have a hard CC too. It is hard for Udyr to gank bot lane without considerable setup from the laners. Try communicating with them that it's hard and you can't gank unless they are pushed up far, or whatever it is you need and that you will need them to set it up a bit (which depending on how bad the lane is going, might not happen at all). Farming also isn't as important as ganking. You need to gank, and gank often. Farming becomes important mid-late game by itself, otherwise you just need to make sure you aren't wasting time inbetween ganks and that your jungle path is optimal (my meager opinion on optimal pathing as an example is Red Buff> Blue Buff> Gromp> Top> Scuttle> Wolf> Mid> Raptors> Krugs> Bot> Scuttle or invade).

LordGeovanni2 votes

inb4 adcs are fine its supports and item 3504 are the problem lel. - by 4 people on the boards.

ChaddyFantome2 votes

{quoted}

inb4 adcs are fine its supports and item 3504 are the problem lel. - by 4 people on the boards.

I've heard people claim "adc's are fine" and then blame the support, then blame the jungler for having too much impact, then blame Mid and top for not being important enough.

says alot about the state of ADC players egos.

Beerstein1 votes

My first goal is to get 1 gank on top where top laner gets the kill, generally that's enough to put my top laner ahead and safe for the entire game where he dominates. I worry about the rest of the map after that. People may call top laner weak, but at least in Silver if you do that much he'll generally jump so far ahead he can make a massive impact on the outcome.

HavinABadTiem3 votes

{quoted}

My first goal is to get 1 gank on top where top laner gets the kill, generally that's enough to put my top laner ahead and safe for the entire game where he dominates. I worry about the rest of the map after that. People may call top laner weak, but at least in Silver if you do that much he'll generally jump so far ahead he can make a massive impact on the outcome.

Assuming that the top laner will have an impact is funny right now. Unless they are a god tier split-pusher, you're wasting resources. XD

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