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I'm sick and tired of this community's ignorance on Quinn.

Ser Garland··1 votes·1,412 views

Queued In for a quick game of draft this morning. Team mates were complaining that they couldn't adc and wanted top. I had first pick so I wanted to be a nice guy and picked Quinn with Flash and Heal and left to go to the bathroom. I came back and my team had a blitzcrank jungle, and a Vayne because they were "unsure if I was adc". I said of course I am, and they complained that I didn't call it before auto locking. Vayne went top.

So the game starts, me and thresh are doing great, we're 3/0, everyone else is suffering (Don't even know why Blitz went jungle, I guess he just wanted to, so its a tad unrelated.) and we lose in the end because of this. People blame me for the loss cause I went Quinn adc...

...

You know what? Fine, I don't care any more. Buff Quinn, give her all the net buffs that the community wants on her.

  • Give a RANGED ASSASSIN untargetability on an engage/disengage burst proc.
  • Let her auto cancel with harrier and do riven levels of bs.
  • Give her 800 range and allow her Q to go through minions
  • replace her blind with a silence
  • let her freely transform between her ult like the other transforming champs and watch as her Master Yi levels of movement speed utterly dominate the map.

make her so OP that she become pick or bann FotM, and you know what? I GUARANTEE you people will take her top lane and mid lane and introduce a new era of cancer the likes that no Teemo has ever wrought upon your mortal souls.

May you all find despair in the Quinnpocalypse.

And then Riot will gutt my baby...item 3070

32 Comments

Critmaster Garen3 votes

she was designed to be a melee ad assassin. they changed her pretty much last minute.

and the reality is, that she did not work out as a bottom lane adc against most matchups and defaulted into a top laner who counters and bullies melee champs.

if you dont believe me, this was her original concept.

Ser Garland1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-08-02T18:00:40.383+0000)

she was designed to be a melee ad assassin. they changed her pretty much last minute.

and the reality is, that she did not work out as a bottom lane adc against most matchups and defaulted into a top laner who counters and bullies melee champs.

if you dont believe me, this was her original concept.

Riot doesn't give up on champion intent.

This entire Season they've been striving to restore the intent of their released champions. Varus is mid again, I'm seeing more and more Jarvan Solo lanes, Shyvana's in the jungle. Hecarim isn't dominating top lane any more. The list goes on.

Also don't throw me "Early concepts" for champions and tell me they were designed to be this way. Quinn was designed to be a ranged marksman, her early concept had her as a melee assassin foil to Talon. She was later Designed to not be this. The player base exploiting strengths in a champion furthermore is not "Design".

Ekko wasn't originally black. Cool bit of trivia but it doesn't change his final -design-

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-08-02T18:10:03.038+0000)

Riot doesn't give up on champion intent.

This entire Season they've been striving to restore the intent of their released champions. Varus is mid again, I'm seeing more and more Jarvan Solo lanes, Shyvana's in the jungle. Hecarim isn't dominating top lane any more. The list goes on.

Also don't throw me "Early concepts" for champions and tell me they were designed to be this way. No Quinn was designed to be a ranged marksman, her early concept had her as a melee assassin foil to Talon. She was later Designed to not be this. The player base exploiting strengths in a champion furthermore is not "Design".

Ekko wasn't originally black. Cool bit of trivia but it doesn't change his final -design-

what im saying is, they barely changed her kit in the transition to a marksman. you can still see the assassin in her. she has a different playstile than other adc. more burst oriented and short trades and isnt very good at extended fights. i think thats part of the reason why she didnt play out like originally intended.

whatever the actual reason is. quinn defaulted into a top lane position instead of a bottom lane position. you didnt communicate enough and they got confused. next time just take a piss when the loading screen shows up and not when youre still in champ select.

Ser Garland1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-08-02T18:13:49.821+0000)

what im saying is, they barely changed her kit in the transition to a marksman. you can still see the assassin in her. she has a different playstile than other adc. more burst oriented and short trades and isnt very good at extended fights. i think thats part of the reason why she didnt play out like originally intended.

whatever the actual reason is. quinn defaulted into a top lane position instead of a bottom lane position. you didnt communicate enough and they got confused. next time just take a piss when the loading screen shows up and not when youre still in champ select.

No she didn't! She is 58 percent botlane. She is 31 percent top lane. She is 11 percent mid and jungle.

People default to her bot lane, especially with flash and heal.

I wouldn't auto lock Jarvan top with flash and Smite and assume people know I'm going top Skirmisher's Saber with him. If you're playing a minority roll on a champion, and especially if you take minority summoner spells then yes, you should call your damn roll.

But when you're picking a majority roll on a champion with corresponding majority roll summoner spells. I think its pretty safe to assume where you're going.

If you're playing Garen top with ignite, people won't assume you're mid because you took ignite, they'll assume you're top because you went Garen. If you took Garen with TP its even harder to assume you're anywhere else but top.

So why is it that A Quinn with Flash and Heal- A marksman that is played mainly botlane with botlane summoners not assume to be bot lane?

inb4 spamming down votes to my pragmatism

imahunting131 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-08-02T18:00:40.383+0000)

she was designed to be a melee ad assassin. they changed her pretty much last minute.

and the reality is, that she did not work out as a bottom lane adc against most matchups and defaulted into a top laner who counters and bullies melee champs.

if you dont believe me, this was her original concept.

Just to jump in here. You mention that Quinnipiac fails again't most matchallenging ups bot lane, but I man Quinnipiac bot lane and have achieved level 7 mastery. I hate playing her top, and I consider her blind to make her a very strong counter to almost all marksmen that go bot lane. If you can utilize her movement bursrt from her passive great for dodging skill shots, plus her vault is a slow, minor displacement that applies her mark. She is my bestime champ overall and my go to ADC in bot lane.

WarlockLaw1 votes

Why are you reviving a year old thread rather than making a new one

Critmaster Garen2 votes

first of all quinn and vayne are both adc. adc isnt the position on bot lane, but the designation "attack damage carry". in fact, theyre ranged adc as opposed to melee adc like yi, tryn, yasuo and fiora.

and your team was confused, because quinn is usually a shitty bot lane adc who doesnt do well against most matchups against other adc/supports until midgame, where she starts playing like an assassin with valor.

her default lane is top. you pick a champion who usually goes top lane, without telling them you want bot, you gonna get people confused.

Ser Garland1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-02T17:37:55.708+0000)

first of all quinn and vayne are both adc. adc isnt the position on bot lane, but the designation "attack damage carry". in fact, theyre ranged adc as opposed to melee adc like yi, tryn, yasuo and fiora.

and your team was confused, because quinn is usually a shitty bot lane adc who doesnt do well against most matchups against other adc/supports until midgame.

her default lane is top.

Quinn is a marksman. She has no business being top any more than Vayne does. A simple thornmail can shut any marksmen down top lane.

her default lane has always been bot lane. When she came out, the marksmen botlane meta was established. She's not Teemo Era.

Watch her damn champion spotlight.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-02T17:43:37.679+0000)

Quinn is a marksman. She has no business being top any more than Vayne does. A simple thornmail can shut any marksmen down top lane.

her default lane has always been bot lane. When she came out, the marksmen botlane meta was established. She's not Teemo Era.

Watch her damn champion spotlight.

you have to get to the fucking thornmail first. but guess what. both vayne and quinn are counterpicks to certain top lane champions. mostly melee bruisers that get bullied the shit out of them by these two.

i dont know how long youve been playing this game, but champions arent always locked down to specific lane. youll find that bruisers will sometimes go midlane as counterpicks to assassins, and youll even find adc going mid as weve seen with varus recently and tristana before.

ive been playing garen mid myself a couple of times, when i got hard countered in my own lane. i usually have no problems laning with him against mid lane assassins, while my mage lanes against that lyssandra on top.

heck, ive even seen jungle vaynes.

and if you get a good clear going with jungle blitz he can actually be a beast.

Ser Garland2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-02T17:45:17.323+0000)

you have to get to the fucking thornmail first. but guess what. both vayne and quinn are counterpicks to certain top lane champions. mostly melee bruisers that get bullied the shit out of them by these two.

i dont know how long youve been playing this game, but champions arent always locked down to specific lane. youll find that bruisers will sometimes go midlane as counterpicks to assassins, and youll even find adc going mid as weve seen with varus recently and tristana before.

ive been playing garen mid myself a couple of times, when i got hard countered in my own lane. i usually have no problems laning with him against mid lane assassins, while my mage lanes against that lyssandra on top.

heck, ive even seen jungle vaynes.

and if you get a good clear going with jungle blitz he can actually be a beast.

I'm not saying the playing champions outside their preferred roles is something to be scowled at, I'm simply stating that Quinn's preferred location is botlane carry with a support. She was -designed- to be this way. Jarvan was designed to be a top laner but people realized his jungle potential later after release, same goes for Vi. I personally trust Riot's logic and not the player base's logic in champion's roles. So I approve of things like Nerfing Jarvan's jungle clear, or nerfing hecarim's top lane oppression.

Quinn's a special case because she's ranged, and the community has a grim history of abusing the ranged mechanic in melee lanes. They nerfed Kayle top, they nerfed Teemo top. Quinn was balanced so that she needs to be fed to do anything substantial, otherwise she would be more of a nightmare top lane. This is simply why the changes the community wants can't be implemented.

imahunting131 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-02T17:37:55.708+0000)

first of all quinn and vayne are both adc. adc isnt the position on bot lane, but the designation "attack damage carry". in fact, theyre ranged adc as opposed to melee adc like yi, tryn, yasuo and fiora.

and your team was confused, because quinn is usually a shitty bot lane adc who doesnt do well against most matchups against other adc/supports until midgame, where she starts playing like an assassin with valor.

her default lane is top. you pick a champion who usually goes top lane, without telling them you want bot, you gonna get people confused.

Her default is not top. That is new "meta" and she still is RARELY played at all. I main Quinn with a mastery level of 7 and I earned that in bot lane as bot lane ADC. She counters almost all other marksmen in bot lane, anybody who says she sick bot lane just can't utilize her properly. I have been playing her near since release and done GREAT bot lane. It is annoying to be hearing this when I know it's not true. If you can't counter an enemy marksmen bot lane with Quinns ranged blind, her vision pulse, her passive, and her vault then I don't know what to tell you. She has great chase and her blind is PERFECT against enemy marksmen in bot laNE you just have to not suck at playing her and know when to engage and land your abilities. That is all.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

You should tell people where you're going if you use something that goes top almost as often as it does bottom. https://i.gyazo.com/dbd6b3e7d50f5849a3fc63195e2a813d.png

Ser Garland1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-02T17:38:54.846+0000)

You should tell people where you're going if you use something that goes top almost as often as it does bottom. https://i.gyazo.com/dbd6b3e7d50f5849a3fc63195e2a813d.png

20% is a big gap.

and FYI, if you see a marksman with flash and heal in a team who "Didn't want to adc" I think it's fair of them to assume that top lane is open.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

That's a tiny gap. Compare it with every other ADC. Practically 100% bot, 0% anywhere else. There is no confusion with any of them except Quinn. You can't rightfully argue this point, you were wrong and need to call your lane. Taking Flash doesn't make you a bottom laner.

Ravenhale2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-08-02T17:48:58.783+0000)

That's a tiny gap. Compare it with every other ADC. Practically 100% bot, 0% anywhere else. There is no confusion with any of them except Quinn. You can't rightfully argue this point, you were wrong and need to call your lane. Taking Flash doesn't make you a bottom laner.

Heal and Flash are the default bot lane picks. Whereas Teleport is almost standard on every Top Laner. When I see the loading screen, I assume the enemy with Teleport is the Top Laner and the guy with Smite is the jungler. I rarely see a Top lane ever take Heal.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

You know people can change their spells even after locking in, right?

Ravenhale2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-02T17:55:46.725+0000)

You know people can change their spells even after locking in, right?

Oh, I know that. The OP should have waited for the Loading screen to take his bathroom break to clarify his position. I'm just saying I would assume a person that is not saying anything and has locked in a marksmen with Heal/Flash is most likely going to the bottom lane.

Seriously what's the harm with taking a top laner and forcing Quinn to go bot if she actually did want top?

Ser Garland1 votes

{quoted}

Oh, I know that. The OP should have waited for the Loading screen to take his bathroom break to clarify his position. I'm just saying I would assume a person that is not saying anything and has locked in a marksmen with Heal/Flash is most likely going to the bottom lane.

Seriously what's the harm with taking a top laner and forcing Quinn to go bot if she actually did want top?

I didn't want top. I wanted adc. I picked Quinn because no one wanted to adc. I was doing the team a favour. They spat it back at me assuming that Quinn wasn't an adc and was more or less a top laner

Ravenhale2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-02T18:22:21.014+0000)

I didn't want top. I wanted adc. I picked Quinn because no one wanted to adc. I was doing the team a favour. They spat it back at me assuming that Quinn wasn't an adc and was more or less a top laner

It's three letters, man. Bot. That should have been enough. Besides, you should have stuck around to help them pick your support. Having played Support often, I always ask the adc for their preference in my champions I have.

Ser Garland1 votes

{quoted}

It's three letters, man. Bot. That should have been enough. Besides, you should have stuck around to help them pick your support. Having played Support often, I always ask the adc for their preference in my champions I have.

When I left, the blitzcrank had exhaust. I thought all was well and established.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

Heal and Flash are the default bot lane picks. Whereas Teleport is almost standard on every Top Laner. When I see the loading screen, I assume the enemy with Teleport is the Top Laner and the guy with Smite is the jungler. I rarely see a Top lane ever take Heal.

top lane isnt exclusive tp and bottom lane heal.

i rarely ever lane with tp on top and prefer ignite on a lot of champions. i play certain mid laners with heal. i even use cleanse on some champions. the summoner is ridiculously underrated. well timed it can even cancel out knockups like a malphite ult or knockbacks. and it entirely removes ignite.

Ravenhale2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2015-08-02T17:56:51.443+0000)

top lane isnt exclusive tp and bottom lane heal.

i rarely ever lane with tp on top and prefer ignite on a lot of champions. i play certain mid laners with heal. i even use cleanse on some champions. the summoner is ridiculously underrated. well timed it can even cancel out knockups like a malphite ult or knockbacks.

Cleanse is underrated, since it actually is useful at all stages of the game, like Flash. It's basically a QSS you get from the start. I've seen several run Top with Ignite/Flash, though it's easy to distinguish these from the APC that also goes Ignite/Flash.

And I have seen an APC run Heal/Flash, though there's no confusion about which lane they are going to.

I just don't ever see Top with Heal. Like never.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Cleanse is underrated, since it actually is useful at all stages of the game, like Flash. It's basically a QSS you get from the start. I've seen several run Top with Ignite/Flash, though it's easy to distinguish these from the APC that also goes Ignite/Flash.

And I have seen an APC run Heal/Flash, though there's no confusion about which lane they are going to.

I just don't ever see Top with Heal. Like never.

heal is used to counter burst. there is no reason not to take it on top lane against certain matchups and on champions that are otherwise susceptible to burst.

Ser Garland1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-08-02T17:48:58.783+0000)

That's a tiny gap. Compare it with every other ADC. Practically 100% bot, 0% anywhere else. There is no confusion with any of them except Quinn. You can't rightfully argue this point, you were wrong and need to call your lane. Taking Flash doesn't make you a bottom laner.

Quinn just isn't played a lot. I took flash and heal, not even top lane marksmen should take heal in solo lane. Far better to take ignite or TP. Plus THEY DIDNT WANT ADC. the fault should be on the Blitz and Vayne who decided to troll since I wasn't "being communicative"

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-08-02T17:44:48.341+0000)

20% is a big gap.

and FYI, if you see a marksman with flash in a team who "Didn't want to adc" I think it's fair of them to assume that top lane is open.

EVERYONE takes flash.... everyone. 1 or 2 champions in the game can afford not to pick the summoner. its really no indication for anything.

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-08-02T17:50:55.234+0000)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9eVLrcih9s

her champion spotlight is ridiculously outdated. champs dont always play out like theyre intended. riot intended varus as a midlane adc and he never worked out properly up until this season.

leona was actually intended as a top laner. you can even see her being played in her champion spotlight. and it didnt work out.

thresh was intended to be a jungler next to a support. but they quickly realized that he made a shitty jungler because he gave himself away when he was near a lane due to the fact that it causes minions to drop souls.

gaby1best2 votes

The rage is high with this one.

ponkzy1 votes

why even play quinn she has like 500 bugs that render her unplayable

imahunting131 votes

{quoted}

why even play quinn she has like 500 bugs that render her unplayable

Can you name a few of them? I main Quinns and I find her very playable I even hAve mastery level 7 and I got it bot lane as marksman ADC

Ser Garland1 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9eVLrcih9s

Tahyana1 votes

I play Quinn mid every time I choose her, using summoner 4 &summoner 14 . I have no problems with her unless they throw Viktor mid against me. I've bot with her paired with Talon . Of course, i always communicate to the people I play with where I am going and what role.

Salt Miner 49 Er1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8IGooae,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-08-02T17:33:49.362+0000)

Queued In for a quick game of draft this morning. Team mates were complaining that they couldn't adc and wanted top. I had first pick so I wanted to be a nice guy and picked Quinn with Flash and Heal and left to go to the bathroom. I came back and my team had a blitzcrank jungle, and a Vayne because they were "unsure if I was adc". I said of course I am, and they complained that I didn't call it before auto locking. Vayne went top.

So the game starts, me and thresh are doing great, we're 3/0, everyone else is suffering (Don't even know why Blitz went jungle, I guess he just wanted to, so its a tad unrelated.) and we lose in the end because of this. People blame me for the loss cause I went Quinn adc...

...

You know what? Fine, I don't care any more. Buff Quinn, give her all the net buffs that the community wants on her.

  • Give a RANGED ASSASSIN untargetability on an engage/disengage burst proc.
  • Let her auto cancel with harrier and do riven levels of bs.
  • Give her 800 range and allow her Q to go through minions
  • replace her blind with a silence
  • let her freely transform between her ult like the other transforming champs and watch as her Master Yi levels of movement speed utterly dominate the map.

make her so OP that she become pick or bann FotM, and you know what? I GUARANTEE you people will take her top lane and mid lane and introduce a new era of cancer the likes that no Teemo has ever wrought upon your mortal souls.

May you all find despair in the Quinnpocalypse.

And then Riot will gutt my baby...item 3070

You know it's funny when people get all fedora tipping over playing a mediocre assassin and an even worse bot lane carry.

Lugg1 votes

Enough salt in this post to open a mine.

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