Why do tanks HAVE to be unrelaible?

Bouncemaster Zac··2 votes·353 views

For a good long while now (more than a season by this point) Riot has been heavily focused on making tanks, as a class, significantly weaker by hitting their ability to do anything consistently. At first it was removing their ability to dish out reliable damage, which makes sense; tanks aren't supposed to be the main damage threat so dialing back on that gives room to make them better at the things they are meant to do: soak damage and apply cc.

Except Riot evidently thinks they shouldn't be able to do that reliably either. Shields on tanks have gotten weaker, while shields on supports and support items have gotten stronger. Waveclearing and sustain abilities on many tanks got weaker as did the items that give those stats (rip item 3068 ). Worst of all is the recent Tank update where they just generally hit the effectiveness of tanks at doing pretty much anything. Tank items as a whole lost hp in favor of more resists... during a point where penetration is the most readily available it's ever been and hp is an objectively more useful stat than resists past 160~ Ar/Mr. Goodbye effective damage soaking. "But tanks still put out a lot of cc!" Nope, they hit that too. All 3 of the tanks that got reworked were changed so that _even their cc had to be "unreliable" _ with long delays, easily avoidable visual tells, or just simply being slow.

Carries do tanks' job better, they're more durable despite building less resists because they get reliable damage reduction item 3046 item 3812 , reliable sustain from lifesteal, deal loads of reliable damage by rightclicking you, and many of them have strong, effective cc to boot. Plus the fat shields and bonus stats they get from supports/support item actives. They're all strengths with no tradeoffs. If you're thinking about picking Maokai (aka Teemo 2.0) quit trolling and pick Draven instead, he's more useful in every way.

At this point there's no reason to pick any tank that isn't Galio , and you know why he's strong? He still has the things they stripped off every other tank. He has poke/waveclear, is actually durable, and is actually able to consistently land cc. And he's slated for nerfs. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Why should I ever play tanks, again?

10 Comments

Paroe3 votes

@thread A reliable tank is one which is relevant even in the late game. Riot does NOT want tanks to relevant past the mid game, and any tank who is needs to be nerfed heavily ASAP.

What riot needs to do is, as a class, make tank itemization have thresholds with HP and then increase tank base HP to meet those thresholds while lowering bruiser, fighter, assassin, and marksman HP so that they DONT meet those thresholds. Tanks will never be balancable as long as theyre "i got ahead and am now unkillable while dishing out lots of good CC and peel" and "Im behind because i went even in lane and am now a CC bot who can do nothing but engage and facetank for my god the marksman".

Bouncemaster Zac2 votes

{quoted}

@thread A reliable tank is one which is relevant even in the late game. Riot does NOT want tanks to relevant past the mid game, and any tank who is needs to be nerfed heavily ASAP.

What riot needs to do is, as a class, make tank itemization have thresholds with HP and then increase tank base HP to meet those thresholds while lowering bruiser, fighter, assassin, and marksman HP so that they DONT meet those thresholds. Tanks will never be balancable as long as theyre "i got ahead and am now unkillable while dishing out lots of good CC and peel" and "Im behind because i went even in lane and am now a CC bot who can do nothing but engage and facetank for my god the marksman".

Yeah, Riot don't want tanks to be relevant, which means they don't want them playable. That's the point of the thread. I'm not sure I follow that last part though. How is a class centered around durability and peel being played for their durability and peel a bad thing?

Paroe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bouncemaster Zac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p5O2TBvN,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-06-24T00:49:40.979+0000)

Yeah, Riot don't want tanks to be relevant, which means they don't want them playable. That's the point of the thread. I'm not sure I follow that last part though. How is a class centered around durability and peel being played for their durability and peel a bad thing?

A tank either feels immortal to play against (A tank which got ahead and was able to STAY ahead) or theyre a CCbot who gets blown up in three seconds whose only real job is to engage, peel for the marksman, and die. There is no middle ground for tanks, and thats a failing on riots part by making anti-tank itemization so available and so strong.

The only way to fix tanks is to make damage oriented classes have LESS BASE HP and buff tanks to have MORE BASE HP and then give their items an HP requirement to get the full effect. Like..... Say you gave every "designated tank" 2200 base HP. Say you gave every mage, assassin, and marksman 1600 base HP Say you gave every fighter 1800 base HP You could then, using level increments and "intended level purchases" make it so TANK SPECIFIC items had 50% effectiveness if you dont have the designated base HP.

At level 18, make it so fighters (lee sin, renekton, volibear, etc) can only really use item 3156,item 3026 item 3071 item 3083 item 3025 item 3110 and item 1409 because they would get full effectiveness, but if they bought item 3742 item 3001 item 3194 the HP/resistances would be reduced unless they ran HP runes and masteries to meet the higher base HP requirements.

Because a lot of problems with tanks and tank itemization is that "tank" is a nonspecific general term for "any champion who purchases HP/resistance items". ANY champion can be a tank if they purchase tank items, which means that ACTUAL tanks will never be allowed the itemization they need to scale properly because there will ALWAYS be a non-tank champion who can do a tanks job better.

Ok sure but why2 votes

????????????? you're kidding right

Bouncemaster Zac1 votes

[{quoted}](name=JZ Jora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p5O2TBvN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-24T00:32:58.158+0000)

????????????? you're kidding right

Please, tell me where I said anything that isn't objectively true.

Penns1 votes

"Carries do tanks' job better" kappa

This Is Your Dad1 votes

From my experience, the more tanks you have on your team, the more all of them shine in teamplay. 1 tank is kinda meh, but if you have 2-3 it really makes a difference.

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anti Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p5O2TBvN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-24T00:31:52.038+0000)

From my experience, the more tanks you have on your team, the more all of them shine in teamplay. 1 tank is kinda meh, but if you have 2-3 it really makes a difference.

but then you lose if your damage dealers die

Ralanr1 votes

The more reliable your CC is on a tank, the less skill is presented.

Bouncemaster Zac1 votes

{quoted}

The more reliable your CC is on a tank, the less skill is presented.

Implying carries need skill to rightclick you once and watch you melt.

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