Why not just give the support Sightstone to start the game?

RookPusher··4 votes·507 views

Don't tell me it's game breaking.

19 Comments

Mysticman897 votes

They don't necessarily know who the support is at the start of the game, or even that there is a support.

Not all modes have roles at champ select, and players are free to swap roles amongst themselves in champ select just like the old days. Also, teams communicating with each other (e.g. premade 5s) could even agree to some other situation that didn't have a traditional support.

Also why should supports get a 800 gold item for free at the start of the game? Adcs don't get to start with a pickaxe, mages don't get to start with a blasting wand, etc.

Theres also various tactical choices in deciding what to rush, and in try to force backs, the impact of both which would be mitigated somewhat. Theres also some amount of skill involved in playing around the limited vision provided by trinkets in early game, with lots of risk/reward opportunities for junglers looking for those cheeky early ganks.

RookPusher1 votes

I did consider the problem of swapping, which could be resolved by doing the same thing as the junglers - if you take Summoner X then you get a 0g SightStone.

Overall, my suggestion attempts to reduce the problems supports face with currency, exp, and general usefulness. It's a cultural imperative that supports ward. I won't argue that, as a supporter I like it even if I think the current warding system is bad. But the current system doesn't work and we need to come up with solutions.

The main problem with GD is their happy to shoot down suggestions to problems without offering alternative solutions.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Who IS the support to begin with?

In Blind Pick, the client will not recognize on who actually picked support, as I doubt it can actually read call-outs or read the player's mind when he doesn't call shit.

In Draft Pick, this can either be faulty or heavily abused. There can either be someone who got autofilled to Support and got agreed to switch with Mid lane, or some guy who wants to Jungle but then intentionally picks Support so that he gets an early Sightstone as Lee Sin jungle.

It's not that we're that "selfish" to listen to opinions. It's just that your opinion just lacks a lot of details to support it.

Don't tell me it's game breaking.

I mean, is THIS all you can come up with?

which could be resolved by doing the same thing as the junglers - if you take Summoner X then you get a 0g SightStone.

Exhaust/Flash or Ignite/Flash can be used in mid or top. Not good enough.

Mysticman891 votes

The most common summoners on supports are flash/exh and flash/ignite, both combinations that are taken by solo laners sometimes. It would very quickly become meta to ensure non-supports had that summoner, because a free sightstone is going to be super useful for everyone until they hit 5-6 items as it'd provide pretty much complete gank immunity from all but the most sneaky junglers.

Having an early sightstone doesn't do anything to help with experience, and if anything it might make it slightly worse. Supports tend to fall behind their adcs because they're expected to go ward, but in the first 10 minutes or so before they have a sightstone they generally keep pace. If they suddenly have a sightstone out of the gate, then they probably should be out warding.

I also feel like supports are at one of the most useful points they've ever been, with items like redemption and locket being relatively cheap and potentially able to turn around teamfights. (Granted, theres been a patch or two recently where everyone dies almost instantly with all the lethality and stuff around, but thats not supports being weak, thats everyone else being too strong.)

There are certainly problems surrounding the support role to be solved, but they're not easy problems, so people don't necessarily have solutions. Someone pointing out flaws with a proposed solution, without having any alternatives themselves, is still useful so people trying to solve the problems can go back to the drawing board and try to address those things. Repeat until an ideal solution is found. It's somewhat human nature for people to feel like people pointing out flaws with their idea(s) is akin to people pointing out flaws with them, but it's important to draw the distinction, since thats how problem solving produces good solutions in the end.

While some amount of the sightstones 800 pricetag is the hp on it, theres still value in having a pile of wards that refreshes whenever you back (after all, green wards weren't free in previous seasons), so simply removing the hp stats wouldn't change that you'd be giving supports some amount of value for free and not other roles. Sure, vision is imperative to the support role, but doing ad damage is imperative to the adc role and you're not giving them an extra free long sword.

First back items are pretty much set in stone for almost every champ (based on their gold at first back), and they all help their usefulness. It just happens that for supports that first back item oftens ends up being a sightstone, which is honestly probably more useful than the adc getting a pickaxe in terms of how it changes the lane dynamics.

Luxana Crowngard2 votes

How about making sightstone a summoner spell to make way for 1 additional slot for either damage or utility

Linna Excel2 votes

Why not set sightstone to 0HP given and let everyone start with one?

Dynikus2 votes

Actually everyone starts with a weaker version of sight stone item 3340

PureSilvrr1 votes

Its game breaking KAppa

boo9101 votes

so basically screw people that play off meta supports

RookPusher1 votes

Make it sellable for 0g

You need to think outside the box.

boo9101 votes

my point was that lots of off meta supports then cant get sightstone.

can you explain how your point helps?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo4 votes

off meta or meta or traditional supports ALL NEED TO GET SIGHTSTONE

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

boo9101 votes

what you said was that sightstone should be given to supports.

but many champions can play support

I'm not saying supports shouldn't get sightstone. I'm saying it would make only traditional supports be able to support.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

i never said GIVEN i said all supports need to get sighstone

RookPusher1 votes

I said given, so I guess I'll take it from here. You queue up for a role at the start of the game. I'm not saying it should be given to the support champs, I'm saying it ought to be given to the person slotted to support.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

it dont need to be given...

if you cant get a SS on 1st back or at worse 2nd back then you are doing something wrong as support.

fyi im a support main have been since season 3

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Because the game can't tell who is the support and it would make botlane pretty much ungankable early.

RookPusher2 votes

Take sweeper, play around it.

Seems reasonable.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

How do I start sweeper at level 1? And sweeper does allow you to kill wards, but it also alerts your location.

Your idea is simply way too busted.

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