Oh look, a 60% win rate Ivern is getting nerfed in the new patch!

option paralysis·Apr 18, 2017·153 votes·5,698 views

A single brush no longer blocks vision of epic monsters.

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

100 Comments

Ozzie StormApr 18, 201715 votes

Yeah not the biggest of nerfs, and it's safe to assume that it's not what people wanted. But honest question, does this mena that he need 2 bushes instead of 1 or all 3 to hide an epic monster?

SirΤeemοApr 18, 201736 votes

it's like when riot nerfed katarina's E by reducing its damage by 0.25 lol

MelledoneusApr 18, 201720 votes

3 AD.

Pale PirateApr 19, 20171 votes

I mean, people keep making fun of that, but it did have a noticeable impact to vayne's winrate according to websites.

GelsominoKillerApr 19, 20179 votes

I belive its because it fucked up people's ability to cs, more than anything XD

Whip it goodApr 18, 20172 votes

Well she can use her E more than 3 times in a 1 vs 1 so it was not insignificant.

RiverWind0407Apr 20, 20172 votes

I love your name <3

AzteryzApr 18, 20171 votes

remember its only the beginning of the pbe cycle they might add more (hopefully)

SqkergApr 18, 20173 votes

It's in the patch notes

AzteryzApr 19, 20172 votes

i meant there probably will be more nerfs in the next patch dude

Lux TizerApr 19, 201717 votes

How funny would it be if this TANKED his winrate? Like Sub-45%?

Pale PirateApr 19, 20172 votes

I would believe that if everyone played like the LCS.

AnastaeciaApr 18, 20174 votes

Neither. Brush cannot hide epic monsters directly...you need to use a wall of bushes between the monster and enemies

Ozzie StormApr 18, 20171 votes

Ty for the info ^^

AnastaeciaApr 18, 20172 votes

at least that's what i gather from the actual tooltip. i see where their little flavor description can be confusing

TheHappyReaperzApr 18, 20171 votes

So if you have wards in Baron or Dragon pit, you can still see the monster.

5000000000000000Apr 18, 20172 votes

Given that there are no bushes in between the monster and the ward, that is. That'd be difficult, though.

EvilMerodachApr 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Neither. Brush cannot hide epic monsters directly...you need to use a wall of bushes between the monster and enemies

Yeh, this seems more of a bugfix than a nerf. (Though it is a nerf in the form of a bug fix.) Just seems weird that he could plant brush on top of dragon/baron anyway. Wards can't be planted there. Should probably do the same knockback thing when you try to place a unit too close to them. But that might look pretty weird with brush flying 20 feet in some random direction.

Ale non è maleApr 18, 201714 votes

It is going to be a pretty big nerf It means no more free objectives like drake/baron by denying enemy vision even if they have succesfully tried to set it wards in the pit, which was a massive Ivern strength, especially for the players aware of this mechanic

RocketRelmApr 19, 20171 votes

While I agree, this may be hindered depending on if it means "cannot be hidden" or "I just need to expend 2 charges now".

SoryInAdvanceApr 19, 20172 votes

Probably gonna need three since you have to wrap the bushes around the thing

Ivern and IreliaApr 18, 20177 votes

As an avid Ivern main, i think that some acceptable changes would be to;

-increase the Q cd at early ranks.

-decrease the time window to dash to his rooted target.

-nerf the base dmg on his E, while increasing the ap ratio back to 80%

-increase R cd, while increasing Daisy's Base armor and dmg.

Any other constructive change ideas? Im happy to discuss

Ale non è maleApr 18, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ivern and Irelia,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EzfbP0mj,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-04-18T22:34:04.016+0000)

As an avid Ivern main, i think that some acceptable changes would be to;

-increase the Q cd at early ranks.

Q is needed for Ivern clear speed jumping from one camp to the other since you have to wait the passive to kick in and so you effectively need to set up as much camps as possible to not lose any time

Ivern early is yet weak and overall the champ is kinda weak until level 6 spike (Daiys + the ability to donate buff that usually you are going to use around that time + the smite enchantment received), nerf Q early means to gut Ivern.

Ivern excessive power is on other things, and one relevant thing was the one just nerfed

Ivern and IreliaApr 18, 20172 votes

I have to disagree with you there. His Q isnt very important at all for early clearing (unless youre invading). Ivern on his own is a pretty weak champ, even with daisy. He excels at good Macro play and securing kills/burning flashes. So i feel that increasing his Q cd at early ranks would punish Ivern players who have bad aim. And nerfing the dash window of his Q would punish those who hesitate, teammates who arent paying attention/dont notice they can dash, and actually allow the enemy to disengage from ivern after he uses Q. Because for those who dont know, if ivern hits a vayne with Q, he still has time to dash to her after she uses condemn on him. Or after Lee kicks him away, or after an ali knocks him back. So reducing the dash window would allow for more disengage potential

Handin Out NapsApr 18, 20176 votes

The best part about Ivern is that not only do you get a free loss, but playing against him also makes you want to kys :D!

Big Black CrocApr 19, 20171 votes

The best part about zed is that not only do you get a free lose,but playing against him also makes you want to kys :D!

Handin Out NapsApr 19, 20172 votes

● Ivern 60% wr ● Zed 47% wr Free loss :thinking:

●Every high elo player calls Ivern incredibly frustrating. ●Only low elo players complain about Zed :thinking:

Avarosa Guide MeApr 18, 20175 votes

I mean, seems like a logical change. How can one hide a void worm in a single brush? Ya gotta put a full gilly suit on it

KingnewgameplusApr 18, 201712 votes

Chogath

BlazeCloud13Apr 19, 20171 votes

By the logic bushes don't work for RekSai

Velzard of KozApr 19, 20174 votes

By the logic Talyah in ARAM should be demolishing the bridge with every Q cast.

SolarisCorvusApr 20, 20172 votes

By that logic Aurelion should win every game due to his sheer size.

MelledoneusApr 20, 20171 votes

He has camouflage, duh.

Mech0pApr 18, 20171 votes

his stun is what needs to be nerfed not his fuckin brushes... I personally think either the distance getting nerfed of his q, the speed of it, or making it to where only he can transport to them would fix a lot because if you get hit by his q and 1-2 other teammates of his are around you might as well just take the death...

INoble KnightIApr 18, 20176 votes

He doesn't have a stun.

SqkergApr 18, 20171 votes

His ult stun I suppose?

Blackstone01Apr 19, 20174 votes

That's a knock up.

HarrisonOwnsApr 19, 20174 votes

Knockups are pure cancer because tenacity doesn't mitigate.

TotalJerkApr 19, 20173 votes

His Q is slow as fuck. If you get hit by that thing you deserve whatever is coming. He's broken for totally different reasons.

INoble KnightIApr 19, 20172 votes

Nobody ever mentions just HOW he is broken just claim he is.

Civet10Apr 19, 20171 votes

Vision denial/objective control, daisy knockups with e slow to get it off easily, huge shield, fast clears, and safe counterjungling

INoble KnightIApr 19, 20171 votes

I wouldn't say huge shield but it is annoying, his counterjungling is meh cause he needs time to do it, Daisy can be annoying but not much damage, and his clears early take a little time but yeah can be fast compared to others. If you focus him in a fight he dies fast thus removing the threat he poses.

Civet10Apr 19, 20171 votes

The counterjungling is mostly with smite, which is channel for a second or two and smite immediately for an instant buff clear

INoble KnightIApr 20, 20171 votes

That's if he has smite up.

Arsenic SulfurApr 19, 20171 votes

Well, most of the threat. Remember the guy builds Redemption.

MelledoneusApr 20, 20171 votes

He basically has the safest and fastest counterjungling, creating a huge gold disparity between him and the other jungler. He then uses his utility to enable and strengthen his teammates, acting as a support with low gold-income and bringing in power from the mid-game much earlier than should exist.

That's why Ivern is broken.

INoble KnightIApr 20, 20171 votes

he can only counter jungle with smite so that's 2 camps while you can gank or take his camps. Easy counter right there which reduces the disparity. Yeah he is a support Jungler, that's what he was designed to be, a support who happens to jungle. Daisy can be easily killed/smited down while the tree man himself bursted before moving on. Because the enemy team will be 2-3 damage dealers and 2 supports versus 2-4 damage dealers and a support. His team needs to have the skill and ability to carry him while he supports them.

MelledoneusApr 20, 20171 votes

His shield is also a guaranteed AoE slow paired up with his root. And the brush he makes can screw over the enemy team harder than a wind wall.

INoble KnightIApr 20, 20171 votes

Except in combat the bush is useless cause of minions or ward but on the rare occasions sure. Yeah the slow can be annoying but the root can still be dodged. He can be bursted and killed easily. I have never thought an Ivern was a reason a teamfight ended wrong for us because we took care of the problem in fight.