Season 6 does 3 things to make teleport worse mid and top.

MealReadytoEat··19 votes·20,679 views

They are -

The Rift Herald - There's a new Jungle mob that spawns at four minutes in the baron pit, and respawns 5 minutes after being killed. It disappears at 19:45 to make room for baron, or 19:55 if it was in combat. It’s a tanky, high dps (much higher than dragon) mutated scuttle crab, with an eye on its back that opens on occasion. The eye can’t be hit by the person tanking, but someone else can hit it for 15% of its max hp in true damage - more than smite. This allows two people to take it quite quickly, while it is nearly impossible to take one on one. When killed, it gives everyone on the killers team 50 gold, and the killer itself a mini-baron buff. The buff grants 10% increased damage, but not true damage, 40 movespeed, a 40% buff to nearby minion attack speeds, and the 4 second recall of baron buff. While not as important as dragon, this objective gives top lane a strategic objective beyond just turrets, which in turn makes ignite or exhaust taken for lane dominance stronger relative to TP, and gives junglers and mid laners more incentive to gank or pressure either lane - top lane to take the herald (and top tower with the minion buff), or bot lane to distract the other team while top and the other take it. Overall, it’s a great strategic addition that will make top lane less of an island while lowering the dominance of TP, as TP is no longer necessary for top laners to influence the rest of the game pre-20 minutes in, as well as bringing reason for influence to come to them.


Lowered XP and higher gold from jungle mobs for non-junglers - The jungle items were shifted from giving bonus gold on monsters kills to bonus experience, while monsters XP was shifted down and their gold shifted up to compensate. This is almost entirely due to the dominance of top lane either double jungling, were they tank two camps for the jungler, leaching xp and killing the small monsters, so that they both get level two with the jungler at full health, or the top lanner taking a camp for themselfs level one, then in either case recalling and teleporting top with extra potions and level 2. Once a again, this is a nerf to TP.


_ And of course, a straight nerf to Teleport_ - TP no longer gets a 60 second lower CD for teleporting to towers. In all honesty, I would've kept that and instead just increased its CD by 30 seconds in both cases. The real issues are the jungling issues above, that TP is the best summoner mid asides from flash, TP being even better than flash top, and frequent teleports to lane wards bot lane to capitalize on overextension/aggression. This has really made bot lane much more passive than it used to. TP’s high usage is largely symptomatic of top lane being so strategically non-optimal for junglers and mid to roam to (In high tier play, a jungler or mid being spotted top, at least without TP, means the that the other team takes drag) TP is the only way top laners can see any action before 25 minutes, of ignite being use-impaired top and mid lane thanks to barrier, the meta, it’s low range, common shielding items, and current support picks (caugh caugh Tahm) countering the bursty playstyle that traditionally got ignite. This nerf however, is largely negated by the 15% cdr reduction on summoner spells early on in the defensive tree, and therefore quite accessible to any top or mid that wants it. Boots of lucidity now grant another 10% cdr on summoner spells, and are cheaper, while the distortion upgrade is much more viable thanks to a replacement of the near mandatory (or at least, the most noticeable and fun) homeguard upgrade with a buff enabled on everyone at the 20 minute mark, although this isn’t shipping with 5.22. Still, the CDR works with all summoners, so while it adds the lost power back to TP, it adds power to non-nerfed summoners as well.

This is from my section from my mega post dealing with all the systemic changes on PBE, The State of Marksmen, part 3 (What, Why, and How the Preseason Changes the Game.) (Megapost)

29 Comments

Only Play Darius7 votes

I'm opposed to the Teleport nerfs too. If they absolutely must nerf teleport, make it so that minions being teleported to have increased resistances but can be killed to deny the teleport, or make it so that the channel can be interrupted if a certain amount of damage is taken, something along those lines. But we all know Riot is going to continue with the nerf despite the new objective top lane (Nasus being my main, having enemies coming top lane even earlier is already unwelcome enough).

Oh well, thanks to how much double TP was abused during worlds, there is no chance that Riot is going to undo the cooldown nerfs.

**TLDR; **Welcome to the world of double-nerfing. Sejuani

Level 69 meme3 votes

The cooldown part is basically negated by all the reduction you can stack, you can get 35% reduction on both flash and tp, at this point tp needs a really hard nerf, or to be removed completely.

Texamus2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cry me a Rívén,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ooEwVAUz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-07T00:51:20.535+0000)

The cooldown part is basically negated by all the reduction you can stack, you can get 35% reduction on both flash and tp, at this point tp needs a really hard nerf, or to be removed completely.

Pretty much, all it does is promote not interacting with your lane. Why risk fighting your laner when you can just wait and then 3v2 when bot lane tries to fight, then take dragon.

It makes snowballing top hard because it with the amount of sustain top laners can take is obnoxious. Flask 3 anything with teleport isn't going to be dying in lane no matter how hard they lose trades unless they make a huge mistake.

ZESIUL4 votes

You will only be able to carry one type of potion next season, Refill potion or Health potion.

MealReadytoEat2 votes

You can't look at that CDR in a vacuum. Yes, it makes TP stronger, but of that CDR (lucidity and masteries) affects every summoner, and distortion boots cost enough that it can't affect early game, so the power it gives TP is fairly marginal compared to anything else.

The largest issue isn't the strength of TP in and of itself, but that no other summoners are worthwhile.

YumaS2Astral3 votes

If Ignite starts to being way more used due to TP nerfs, do you think that lane bullies like Gnar Renekton Darius Riven Yasuo Tryndamere Irelia (Tryndamere and Irelia are not lane bullies, but I mentioned them because their snowball potential with Ignite is enormous) will become the new meta top lane? Will they need nerfs?

Renekton, for example, is a very strong champion. In the past he was considered the king of top lane. If a champion was countered by Renekton, then it was considered an unviable option for top lane. Renekton was never nerfed; he was actually heavily buffed with many changes over the course of time. However, because the meta changed and due to Teleport becoming more popular, he is actually no longer one of the strongest picks anymore. If Renekton was able to use Ignite more often to win and snowball his lanes, he could be more popular because he could fill his niche better.

Riven is also another champion that is a lane bully against many champions. Also, her snowball potential is ridiculous, even more so than Tryndamere, and if she was able to use Ignite I am sure that she would be considered broken (as if she isn't considered broken already).

Dank Meme Irelia2 votes

These champs are already the meta tops and renekton most certainly did get nerfed, after several patches they decided to buff his ult late game and nerf it early game

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Good post. I hadn't considered how the jungle EXP nerfs would affect TP in that way.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Nothing wrong with people trying not to feed top. I'm actually very much of the "top laners focus on not losing more than winning" scenario, because ganking top is usually pointless.

Retillin1 votes

Not sure I agree with Rift Herald being a reason _against _ teleport top/mid. In fact I would say it increases the reason for TP top/mid. Having it means you can contest/rush Rift Herald. At best I would say the addition of RH is a net neutral on teleport. (Not sure I agree on the jungle camps yet, still have to see how much less xp/gold you get)

But I do agree the actual nerf to TP does hurt it.

Zlysium1 votes

{quoted}

Not sure I agree with Rift Herald being a reason _against _ teleport top/mid. In fact I would say it increases the reason for TP top/mid. Having it means you can contest/rush Rift Herald. At best I would say the addition of RH is a net neutral on teleport. (Not sure I agree on the jungle camps yet, still have to see how much less xp/gold you get)

You're looking at the addition in the wrong way. This practically negates teleport being used on top laners to go bot lane, or mid laners to go bot lane. Because doing that gives up Rift Herald. Of course, You can also just teleport when bot lane is getting GANKED by the enemy jungler, then you definitely won't lose Rift Herald over it. But for the most part i think it's definitely a deterrent. And at the same time a new problem. Now top lane is more of an island. If top laners won't be using teleport for their team, they'll be solo top for much much longer. Which at FACE VALUE. Even if people still take teleport over ignite. Is a buff to all lane bullies top. They'll be able to abuse the enemy top laner longer. And the top laner won't even have the opportunity to roam without giving up an objective. If mid lane/bot lane roamed before they'd still be close enough to dragon to contest it. Because they'd never go top. But a top laner really won't be able to gank middle effectively. At almost any stage in the game. That's why teleporting on a ward behind bot laners was so good. There's now only one way for top laners against lane bullies have to win lane. And it's ganks. Which means giving up dragon still. Unless the junglers start taking teleport every game. Interesting to think about yeah? No matter how good Rift Herald is, it's still not comparable to Dragon Buff for the whole team. We've seen its damage, who ever tanks it is recalling after. Which i think really equals a loss of map pressure for a short time. If the top/jungle take herald they won't take top tower. And if the herald goes to the jungler, before 20 minutes obviously. Everyone is going to play safer under tower. With a nice stack of dragon buff for when that herald buff ends.

Almost no way to fix a problem without causing another, eh?

Penta Penguin1 votes

"We're nerfing TP but don't worry, you can still reduce it's cooldown by 50%"

WTF?

Also fuck double-jungling, I hope it dies instantly and everyone gets banned for it

Yesterday I fought a Riven that TP'd into lane with DORAN'S BLADE AND 5 HEALTH POTIONS

I thought the idea of Doran's Blade was that you don't get a lot of hard-sustain with it.

Senior Penguin1 votes

Well, it's not like the option wasn't available to you to either double jungle or take the raptor or wolf camp. It's a strategy that has been well known for ages now so there's not really anything to complain about in terms of "suprise! I have more potions now!." I like double jungling because it makes life bearable for junglers who are weak to early invades when the enemy picks someone like Lee Sin (like 50% of games it seems) or Vi.

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

"We're nerfing TP but don't worry, you can still reduce it's cooldown by 50%"

WTF?

Also fuck double-jungling, I hope it dies instantly and everyone gets banned for it

Yesterday I fought a Riven that TP'd into lane with DORAN'S BLADE AND 5 HEALTH POTIONS

I thought the idea of Doran's Blade was that you don't get a lot of hard-sustain with it.

She could get that just by soloing wolves.

Penta Penguin1 votes

Remove wolves

junglerboy161 votes

She could get that by soloing any small camp genius.

Penta Penguin1 votes

REMOVE JUNGLE

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

She could get that by getting a Level 1 kill on an invade.

junglerboy161 votes

Screw it, we should just remove levels, that way nobody can get one before anyone else!

We should also remove gold and items too, since those make the game unfair for people who don't have them.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

We should remove champions, too, because it's unfair for someone who dies to someone else.

junglerboy161 votes

But that doesn't solve the fact that winions will take over the world on their own.

Champions should still exist, but they should all deal 100% max health true damage to minions, and no damage to anything else.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

But then when someone has a skin, the other person would feel left out. We need to remove all differences of champions, and just make a standard champion with no differences from each other.

junglerboy161 votes

In that case, Red side would feel like blue side would have an advantage, so the map should be totally flat with no terrain. And no colors either.

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

Remove wolves

You do realize that potions are going to be more expensive next season, right? Riven only gets about 53 + 15 + 15 gold from wolves right now, which is 83 gold, so you can have Doran's and 4 potions that way. Wolves no longer give level 2 by themselves though, and potions will cost 50 next season, meaning doing the wolf camp will only get you one extra potion unless you're willing to wait for the 17 extra gold, which is then only 2 extra. I'm not even sure where Riven will be with all of the item changes coming, but there's a sustain nerf to her right there

BasedJarvan4201 votes

If I gank top I just give the rift herald buff to my top laner who will then gank bot with it and then we get dragon after. That's essentially game over.

I'm guessing nobody will take ignite top anymore after a certain point simply because of easy you can snowball the game from herald buff. If I'm the jungler, of course I'm gonna gank top nonstop now. Also, why wouldn't all midlaners take tp now too? You can snowball the game even more if you have 2 teleports. Now the only lanes being ganked at all are top and bot and mid laners are just waveclear bots with cc.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

Rift herald is worse than dragon, especially the first one. It makes top ganks less worse than bot ganks, but doesn't make them superior, that's for sure.

BladeSteel1 votes

Im pretty sure that they "withdrew" the homeguard effect. It's back to how it is live now, you don't get the speed boost from 20 min on. At least thats the latest i've heard about it/

MealReadytoEat1 votes

I said it's not shipping with 5.22. They still plan on it, but they wanted to see its effect on the game, which requires them to NOT release it with a ton of other changes at the same time.

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