You guys stated that you could either tackle his damage or utility, so go for the latter because you don't want a burst mage to 100-20 instead of 100-0. So you nerf his E.
But then also his R's damage? What's the explanation behind this?
Glaveir14 votesI have a question! How does his AP build up faster? I haven't seen the details, but assuming the reasoning is because he can kill 2 minions at once instead of just 1, how exactly does that matter? I mean minion waves won't spawn faster just because you are killing more at once.
kDrakari7 votesIt's more significant earlier because it has reduced rank 1 cooldown as well, and there's no way you could last hit every minion with Q for most of the game so being able to get two from one Q would double it with the same cooldown until you get to the point where he COULD previously last hit every minion with Q... by which point he should be blowing people up instead of AFK farming anyway.
Also, at least in theory, the new Q can get a stack AND harass the enemy laner at the same time, especially with the increased range. That may not be the most common of situations (and it can lead to pushing the lane unintentionally, which Veigar hates because he can't escape a gank at all) but I am told old Veigar did frequently use Q for harass instead of farming so now he's at least sometimes getting stacks from that.
I think someone did the math and, assuming Veigar hits his W somehow, his damage is still well below old DFG burst, but significantly higher than old Veigar with the same build if he gets two minions with Q every now and then. The problem is the "Hits his W somehow" since that's pretty much impossible without landing a stun, and landing a stun is pretty much impossible.
Not saying it was a good change, but I think if they decide that champions should be viable and they improve his stun or think of a better alternative than gutting it then he should still be able to burst people about as well.
ElBoob1 votesIt's more significant earlier because it has reduced rank 1 cooldown as well, and there's no way you could last hit every minion with Q for most of the game so being able to get two from one Q would double it with the same cooldown until you get to the point where he COULD previously last hit every minion with Q... by which point he should be blowing people up instead of AFK farming anyway.
I've been running flat CDR blues and quints which, when combined with the 5% CDR mastery, gave me a starting CDR of 20%, I could totally last-hit every minion from level 3 and on(2nd rank in Q). This lead to me having more gold and AP by the mid-game and helping me to secure enough of an advantage that I could start offing enemy champs with relative ease(if they weren't cautious).
MrBuffington3 votesI've been running flat CDR blues and quints which, when combined with the 5% CDR mastery, gave me a starting CDR of 20%, I could totally last-hit every minion from level 3 and on(2nd rank in Q
How did you have the mana pool to sustain that though?
EDIT: Just looked up his stats; he has roughly 340 mana lvl 1, and his lvl 1 Q costs 60 mana. Taking into account regen, masteries, and his passive, and assuming you're right in that 20% CDR allows you to last hit every single minion, you'd basically go oom after one wave, maybe be able to squeeze in an extra minion or two, since you're talking about his lvl 3 (which I don't think the math changes much, especially since his Q mana cost increases as well)
EDIT2: I forgot to mention the regen from Doran's or if you opt into taking flask or something, but I think the overall problem still remains
ElBoob1 votesFlask and mana potions(one or 2) + his innate. I had mana problems for sure though.
MrBuffington1 votesSo the theory is this:
This is also the given justification for the nerf on his ultimate ratio, because according to some of the internal tests they ran, since it was easier for Veigar to stack AP, his ult would be doing even more damage than before even with the reduced ratio because of the extra AP gained; whether this is actually the case in the live game and actually justified is still debatable, since he did lose DFG. At the same time, DFG's removal was intended to make mages less bursty, so I think it's a mistake to think that compensatory buffs to any champion will give them back the burst they had with DFG.
I don't think I need to give my opinion on his current state since the current statistics seem to speak for themselves. He's going to receive some buffs in the upcoming patches, and I assume people are still getting a feel for him as a whole; I think once people get used to using his new Q, and assuming the upcoming buffs do enough to help him, he'll be pretty powerful.
Sightless663 votesYou don't get to Q every minion. Mana and time constraints prevent it. Would I really spend 20ish seconds last hitting every single minion in a wave with Q when I could be doing something else useful like roaming or fighting opponents. I'd often W a wave to clear it and only last hit 1-2 minions with Q because I just didn't have time. Now, I can get more Q last hits in the same period of time. The AP absolutely builds up faster. It's not enough to make up for the major nerfs to his kit, but you should have more AP with new Veigar than with the old one.
Rivini12 votesVeigar is supposedly able to obtain more AP throughout the match with his new Q, which was the justification for nerfing the AP ratio. That's what they stated.
Curling Veigar29 votesVeigar is supposedly able to obtain more AP throughout the match with his new Q, which was the justification for nerfing the AP ratio. That's what they stated.
More ap doesn't untrashify him.
There's two points to this. One, riot specifically said they weren't reducing his damage.
Two, people need to stop thinking that having more AP means that you're winning. Having more AP from q in most cases means you afk farmed in your lane which will almost certainly fuck your team over because you have no presence on the map.
Rivini15 votes[{quoted}](name=Sadistic Veigar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=olh9V4nU,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-03-01T10:35:43.019+0000)
More ap doesn't untrashify him.
There's two points to this. One, riot specifically said they weren't reducing his damage.
Two, people need to stop thinking that having more AP means that you're winning. Having more AP from q in most cases means you afk farmed in your lane which will almost certainly fuck your team over because you have no presence on the map.
Technically speaking, his overall damage wasn't lessened bearing in mind the Q change. That's what they were going for.
So your logic is the mid laner needs to be a roamer to win the match... then why pick Veigar? There are plenty of mid lane picks who are better at roaming, mainly due to their mobility which includes jumping over walls (Zed, Katarina, LeBlanc, etc.).
While Riot continues to cater to the mobility creep in order to keep the LCS exciting to watch, old fashioned mages like Veigar are just out of place now. Also because of how much he excels at stopping mobility with his stun (like Kalista's hopping) and him lacking much of a "play-making" kit, Riot doesn't want that to continue so they are slowly taking him out of the picture through nerfs. Remember that he was picked a couple times as a support (plus one time mid) and would likely be a replacement for Annie (FIRE AND GIANT TEDDY BEAR OHMAHGAWD!) if Riot didn't intervene. Why do you think Nasus got nerfed after he was picked a few times in the LCS? He makes top lane a bore fest. He's not jumping around the map or consistently making flashy effects happen. All he does is Q minions. That's not exciting LCS material, so they made sure the pros won't want to pick him anymore. The same thing is happening with Veigar and will happen with more "boring" champions. As soon as Malzahar gets picked in the LCS, he'll receive a beating from the nerf bat too, along with Brand, Garen, Gangplank, and so on.
The LCS is all that matters now, and if a champion isn't "LCS viable" and tries to get into the spotlight, there is little to no hesitation in swinging the nerf bat at them. Case in point: Zed, Lee Sin and Thresh. Look at how they "balance" them. Then look at Veigar, Nasus and Sona.
RogueWill2 votesThresh hasn't got a buff in a long time; if i'm not mistaken the last 3 patches to him or so where nerfs. So you statements is half true. Then other immobile champions are gotten buffs (Annie to be precise) and besides a flash+tibbers she has no real flashy moves.
If anything, most of veigar damage is still intact, and you seem to forget Event Horizon was meant as a defensive tool to keep enemies away from veigar and that is still possible if you place it closer to you. It's true that most of the offensive capabilities of event horizon is gone but you have to remember it wasn't intended to be used offensively. I don't main veigar and to be honest I haven't played him much recently other than in ARAM but i believe focusing on CDR now would result beneficial on veigar now as some sort of mid range mage dealing constant (high damage) every 4 sec or so.
chumbler2 votesThresh hasn't got a buff in a long time; if i'm not mistaken the last 3 patches to him or so where nerfs. So you statements is half true. Then other immobile champions are gotten buffs (Annie to be precise) and besides a flash+tibbers she has no real flashy moves.
If anything, most of veigar damage is still intact, and you seem to forget Event Horizon was meant as a defensive tool to keep enemies away from veigar and that is still possible if you place it closer to you. It's true that most of the offensive capabilities of event horizon is gone but you have to remember it wasn't intended to be used offensively. I don't main veigar and to be honest I haven't played him much recently other than in ARAM but i believe focusing on CDR now would result beneficial on veigar now as some sort of mid range mage dealing constant (high damage) every 4 sec or so.
I don't give a shit what Riot's "intent" was because their intent is usually stupid and awful because they're, it turns out, terrible designers!
RogueWill2 votesWow. Really constructive post. And later you wonder why your opinions isn't hear
Curling Veigar3 votesWow. Really constructive post. And later you wonder why your opinions isn't hear
I already posted a constructive post that got 200 upvotes but it was ignored as I expected.
Curling Veigar1 votesThresh hasn't got a buff in a long time; if i'm not mistaken the last 3 patches to him or so where nerfs. So you statements is half true. Then other immobile champions are gotten buffs (Annie to be precise) and besides a flash+tibbers she has no real flashy moves.
If anything, most of veigar damage is still intact, and you seem to forget Event Horizon was meant as a defensive tool to keep enemies away from veigar and that is still possible if you place it closer to you. It's true that most of the offensive capabilities of event horizon is gone but you have to remember it wasn't intended to be used offensively. I don't main veigar and to be honest I haven't played him much recently other than in ARAM but i believe focusing on CDR now would result beneficial on veigar now as some sort of mid range mage dealing constant (high damage) every 4 sec or so.
The thing is, it does a terrible job of keeping you safe right now. Really terrible. Also their intent is to trap people inside the cage.
Rivini3 votesThresh hasn't got a buff in a long time; if i'm not mistaken the last 3 patches to him or so where nerfs. So you statements is half true. Then other immobile champions are gotten buffs (Annie to be precise) and besides a flash+tibbers she has no real flashy moves.
Thresh was broken on release and is still broken to this day. The fact that literally every ability in his kit makes exciting plays happen keeps him safe from proper balancing. Compare him to Sona and Janna's balance histories.
The nerfs Thresh gets?
-Lost 25 range on his basic attacks. WHOOPTY-DO! Thresh can be melee and still be a top tier support. His attack range is irrelevant to the utility he brings.
-Lantern shields only himself and one ally. That's fine for ARAM, but bot lane on SR consists of 2 people. Therefore, the nerf has no meaningful effect and still retains the main reason for using the lantern.
Thresh will never be balanced as long as he remains a major play-maker to make those exciting LCS plays happen. I guarantee you he would be gutted if there was no LCS.
This same principle applies to Zed. No one argued his attack speed was the reason he's too strong, but that's where Riot focused on him just so a nerf could be applied and give us the illusion that they care about what we think, all the while keeping him attractive to the pros so he still gets picked in the LCS. They want us to see the nerf and go "Yay! Finally a nerf! Riot does care!" In reality, we're not that naïve.
Now we've come to Veigar, the yordle who excels at putting mobility creep to a halt. Especially when you consider Veigar can stop Kalista from hopping around by just having the cage surrounding her, Riot didn't want a champion who can effortlessly prevent #LC$bigplays, hence the delay on the stun. Veigar has had that stun since he was released, but Kalista whined to Riot about it so they suddenly jumped on the change.
Annie is full of fiery effects, not just from Tibbers. The ability to control a giant teddy bear is intriguing to people watching, especially those who may consider giving the game a try (the target audience). She received buffs because Janna was beginning to make a return, but of course just buffing an "LCS viable" champion sometimes isn't enough. Why else do you think Janna quickly got nerfed once again, harshly at that?
RogueWill1 votesMay I remind you annie buff were mid based? When was the last time yous saw an Annie mid on LCS? If Veigar was so good at stopping LCS plays why wasn;t he picked on LCS to begin with? and Janna is one champion that can make really flashy plays with her kit, she is definitely LCS material why would nerf her under your reasoning?
Rivini3 votesMay I remind you annie buff were mid based? When was the last time yous saw an Annie mid on LCS? If Veigar was so good at stopping LCS plays why wasn;t he picked on LCS to begin with? and Janna is one champion that can make really flashy plays with her kit, she is definitely LCS material why would nerf her under your reasoning?
How was it mid-based? Are you saying a faster and tankier Tibbers doesn't make support Annie better? If anything, the nerf to her E (on herself) hurts mid Annie more than support. The purpose of Tibbers is to stun an enemy team (with burst damage) at range, apply additional damage over time, and tank objectives. It doesn't matter whether Annie is playing support or mid, aside from damage output. If Tibbers can do those 3 things, he's doing his job.
Veigar didn't see much LCS play because his stun is his only selling point at that elo range and it isn't a guaranteed stun to begin with. His stun isn't targeted like Annie's Q and can't easily stun a team like Tibbers or even Annie's W, nor does he have a pet to tank objectives with. A competent team that works together can handle Veigar and will get MR to counter his burst.
Janna doesn't have a lot of flashiness in her kit. She has the tornado and her high cooldown ult that can sometimes make plays if used at the right moment. That's it. Her W doesn't look much different from her basic attack and her shield is rather plain. Annie, on the other hand, emits pretty fiery effects on all of her abilities and controls a giant, flaming teddy bear. Additionally, being a little girl shows greater diversity in the League roster. It's certainly more welcoming to see than yet another half-naked woman who talks like a slut. All of Thresh's abilities are easy to see and understand from an inexperienced person's perspective (and look presentable on top of it), plus as already stated, every single one of them makes plays happen, not just one normal ability and an ult only if used correctly.
The Ecdysiast1 votesBut his -10% winrate begs to differ.
The Ecdysiast1 votesIf your reasoning is just "pick someone else," then why don't they just do to all the non-mobile mages what they did to Revive and refund them? Would solve the mobility creep because not being able to blink or dash eleven times in a row would not be an option.
aaronconlin3 votesExcept the amount of minions remains unchanged. Many Veigar players are upset about this justifying his nerfs because they could likely last hit most if not all of a minion wave anyway. I guess this gives them more opportunities to harass while farming, but still.
Bolwinkel2 votesVeigar is supposedly able to obtain more AP throughout the match with his new Q, which was the justification for nerfing the AP ratio. That's what they stated.
But that doesn't make sense. Minion waves still spawn at the same times. If veigar didn't miss a single minion with his q before he was changed and didn't miss a single minion with his q after the changes he would still have the exact amount of bonus AP.
LyraSona2 votesThe game isn't balanced around your hypotheticals. Veigar is able to IN PRACTICE gain more AP because the reality is he never just farmed one lane forever. He's able to rack up the AP and go do other things like harass people, the way you Veigar enthusiasts are harassing the forum. It's getting absurd at this point.
chumbler1 votesThe game isn't balanced around your hypotheticals. Veigar is able to IN PRACTICE gain more AP because the reality is he never just farmed one lane forever. He's able to rack up the AP and go do other things like harass people, the way you Veigar enthusiasts are harassing the forum. It's getting absurd at this point.
No, what's absurd is how stupid you are that you believe any of that shit you posted. These changes are complete trash and only morons are defending them.
Kuroi862 votesThe only issue with his changes is that the delay on his stun is too long. The other changes aren't bad, the Q I'd say is a drastic improvement. The fact that you can Q farm more than a DFG worth in AP long before mid game hits now means a lot more damage on his abilities. The only problem is hitting that damn stun so you can actually APPLY all of your damage! The only dang time you actually hit Dark Matter anymore is if your target gets cc locked just as you're putting up your wall so you can actually stun them. :(
Kowe The Ewok12 votesYea. It's hilarious
Longer cooldown on Q Significantly lower damage on R
Riot "we nerfed his E 'cause he deals more damage now"
Curling Veigar3 votes[{quoted}](name=Kowe The Ewok,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=olh9V4nU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-03-01T10:47:09.413+0000)
Yea. It's hilarious
Longer cooldown on Q Significantly lower damage on R
Riot "we nerfed his E 'cause he deals more damage now"
I'm referring to the damage. Q's DAMAGE is the same.
krawkaw1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kowe The Ewok,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=olh9V4nU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-03-01T10:47:09.413+0000)
Yea. It's hilarious
Longer cooldown on Q Significantly lower damage on R
Riot "we nerfed his E 'cause he deals more damage now"
Significantly? It's .2 I know thats still a nerf but its not that bad...
Curling Veigar3 votesSignificantly? It's .2 I know thats still a nerf but its not that bad...
You could use the logic the other way around too you know.
If it wasn't that big of a difference why bother nerfing it?
krawkaw1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sadistic Veigar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=olh9V4nU,comment-id=000200020000,timestamp=2015-03-01T22:40:22.380+0000)
You could use the logic the other way around too you know.
If it wasn't that big of a difference why bother nerfing it?
Because I think that it was needed. He had a 1.2 AP spell that also scaled against mages, had nice base damage, and was point-click. Seems reasonable to have 1.0 instead of 1.2
chumbler2 votesBecause I think that it was needed. He had a 1.2 AP spell that also scaled against mages, had nice base damage, and was point-click. Seems reasonable to have 1.0 instead of 1.2
You might also want to notice that that spell has bad range, a long cooldown, and is on now probably the most defenseless champion in the game with a nonexistent W. But then your opinion isn't any worse than Riot's, though that's not exactly a high bar.
Curling Veigar3 votesBecause I think that it was needed. He had a 1.2 AP spell that also scaled against mages, had nice base damage, and was point-click. Seems reasonable to have 1.0 instead of 1.2
You forgot the fact that it's low range, high cooldown, and a stupidly high mana cost (225 mana max rank).
His damage was already nerfed with dfg removal, so why bother taking more damage away? I understand it's not that much, but it's the fact that they said they wouldn't touch his damage.
j j7 votesIt's funny because you still can't really farm on him vs certain champions.
OJ1913 votes[{quoted}](name=j j,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=olh9V4nU,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-03-01T14:54:40.494+0000)
It's funny because you still can't really farm on him vs any champions.
FTFY
well, maybe vs an evelynn I guess.
Curling Veigar3 votes[{quoted}](name=j j,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=olh9V4nU,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-03-01T14:54:40.494+0000)
It's funny because you still can't really farm on him vs certain champions.
Oh I didn't see this.
Yes, any competent mid laner wouldn't let Veigar farm anyways so he'd be double useless.
Illâoi Evê Siôn6 votesWhat? Veigar can't one-shot my Marksman with only his ult as easily as before anymore? Better flame all hell loose.
This isn't directed toward you Sadistic Veigar, but rather the people commenting here :)
And don't even try to deny that he could one-shot people with only his ult. I've done it before, I've had it happen to me before. It wasn't healthy.
SwapShadows5 votesYea that happens when you build 0 defensive items.
You know just like most AP bursters and AD bursters can do the same to people with no defensive items.
Saminus Maximus9 votesWhat? Veigar can't one-shot my Marksman with only his ult as easily as before anymore? Better flame all hell loose.
This isn't directed toward you Sadistic Veigar, but rather the people commenting here :)
And don't even try to deny that he could one-shot people with only his ult. I've done it before, I've had it happen to me before. It wasn't healthy.
Tryndamere can two shot an adc with auto attacks, Zed can pop an adc with one rotation in a split second and immediately leave, annie can wipe out an entire team with a good ult, Nidalee can one shot an adc from miles away, lee sin can one shot an adc with his ult alone. An adc can two shot veigar with two auto attacks. If you dont build any defence at all dont be surprised that you get deleted by a burst mage. Veigar pays for his damage by being squishy, having short range and 0 mobility.
They didn't consider nerfing R's ratio a damage reduction because they felt the added AP would level it out. In their eyes, leaving the R ratio untouched would have increased his damage.
Veigars ult is weaker now. It only matches up to its old damage after he has 300 ap stacks with a rabadons. A nerf to the enemy ap ratio would have been better in my opinion rather than his own ap.
Curling Veigar3 votes[{quoted}](name=Saminus Maximus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=olh9V4nU,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2015-03-01T16:32:28.026+0000)
Veigars ult is weaker now. It only matches up to its old damage after he has 300 ap stacks with a rabadons. A nerf to the enemy ap ratio would have been better in my opinion rather than his own ap.
YES. PLEASE.
Much rather have his own ratio buffed with the enemy ap ratio reduced because the enemy ratio scaling isn't significant at all. I never even notice it.
Altricad6 votes
Veigar at least has a looong cooldown on his ulti. By no means, could he keep 1 shotting you over and over. And even though it has a high ratio, Veigar would need a LOT of AP to 1 shot you.
And don't YOU deny that a marksman with I.E and P.D couldn't 3 shot veigar when his stun and ulti was down.
And i thought mages were supposed to burst marksman with their combo?
Lstrike1 votesActually, only an extremely fed Veigar can 1-shot you with only his ult.. Even that, you have to have 0 bonus MR.
Kazaashi1 votesWhat? Veigar can't one-shot my Marksman with only his ult as easily as before anymore? Better flame all hell loose.
This isn't directed toward you Sadistic Veigar, but rather the people commenting here :)
And don't even try to deny that he could one-shot people with only his ult. I've done it before, I've had it happen to me before. It wasn't healthy.
That is pretty much why people are upset.
The Ecdysiast5 votesWell the reason is: DFG was providing extra damage, so it was removed. To compensate, they also removed some of Veigar's damage.
Logic intensifies.
Athenes Lulu3 votesBecause he can "farm more with his Q now!"
I mean, wow! 2 minions at once, instead of just one? Better nerf his ult scaling so his ult damage stays the same, people WILL end up farming like crazy... just in case!
(please I hope people here know sarcasm)
EnzoDaBaker5 votesYou can hit 2 minions at once and kill them, that's great but it really won't produce THAT much AP farming increase because chances are you would have killed that 2nd minion with 2 separate Q's anyway. This is a mana reducing upgrade though, I'll give them that, however since your lane opponent isn't a moron he will be coming in to mess up your double farm. You'll probably take 2 pokes for that, and considering you can't poke back because Q is now a skill shot and he stays behind minion lines it really means you're reduced to farming for the first 20 minutes. You can't roam, hell no, cuz you can't get away from anyone anymore. They just step in the center and wait for it to fade and continue to kill you.
"We're compensating veigar since we removed dfg" and then proceed to remove his harass (Q), nerf the hell out of his stun, and reduce his ult dmg? Are you kidding me? COMPENSATION means to offset the loss, not compound the loss. This is a complete joke and the entire community can see this is purely for LCS purposes. You guys can take your LCS highlight reel and stick it, not all of us have 20 hrs a day to relearn new chars because you've decided to remove one.
Lusth3 votesOh look Veigar can get 2 ap per Q! So op xDD!! Oh if only the ap he can get wasnt limited by the number of minions! And lets disregard the fact that his W doesnt exist anymore! But its okay, he gets "more" AP he still deals the same damage xDD. The ult nerfs were totaly justified too! Yay Riot!
TheKingDodo3 voteswe should increase veigar's stacking speed even more, then add spell vamp to his passive.
then force us to build veigar as ap tank with lichbane.
then call him mini 
:3
Duobyte1 votesAll of you people are delusional. Sure these were horrific nerfs but the stun was always broken and you know it. It was simply unfair. Not only was it an aoe stun, but it also worked as a zoning tool in teamfights. It was an instant cast ranged stun which, if you didnt have qqs or if you lost your lane horribly, would mean certain death for any enemy. The main problem is that people are too used to have an on demand stun and a simple farming skill that could work as a harras. Riot made veigar play a bit differently and of course his win rate is low. He is practicly a new champion and all of you are playing him the old way.
This is just like the nidalee rework when riot deliberatly made her AD version bs to play, yet her win rate was also low as sht because people deseratly tried her AP or failed the AD playstyle hard. People cried untill pros showed how broken she truly is. It will take time before people get used to it. They had to gut him all around so they can buff him into FOTM. That is how reworks work in lol. Yasuo was weak on realease, people cried, he got buffed, people cried, he got nerfed. Same with nid only now she is an annoying spear spammer again.
Riot will always overnerf a champion and then buff him back sooner or later. They always fixed their mistakes and Im pretty sure veigar and kass will get some love in the next few patches.
Not related to thread but, you veigar mains diss the cage nerf the most because you KNEW that it was the most broken piece of his kit. Then you act like the victim how he needs it to deal with assassins. You and Riot both know that the cage lacked counterplay. If veigar is ahead he just steamrolls his opponent. Then you say but qqs or zhonya and you completely counter me :( and people agree with you. The same argument could apply to zed but for some fucked up reason people bash on him. Double standards much? I can bet that if veigar was a more popular champ prior to rework he would have just as many QQ posts as Zed.
chumbler1 votesAll of you people are delusional. Sure these were horrific nerfs but the stun was always broken and you know it. It was simply unfair. Not only was it an aoe stun, but it also worked as a zoning tool in teamfights. It was an instant cast ranged stun which, if you didnt have qqs or if you lost your lane horribly, would mean certain death for any enemy. The main problem is that people are too used to have an on demand stun and a simple farming skill that could work as a harras. Riot made veigar play a bit differently and of course his win rate is low. He is practicly a new champion and all of you are playing him the old way.
This is just like the nidalee rework when riot deliberatly made her AD version bs to play, yet her win rate was also low as sht because people deseratly tried her AP or failed the AD playstyle hard. People cried untill pros showed how broken she truly is. It will take time before people get used to it. They had to gut him all around so they can buff him into FOTM. That is how reworks work in lol. Yasuo was weak on realease, people cried, he got buffed, people cried, he got nerfed. Same with nid only now she is an annoying spear spammer again.
Riot will always overnerf a champion and then buff him back sooner or later. They always fixed their mistakes and Im pretty sure veigar and kass will get some love in the next few patches.
Not related to thread but, you veigar mains diss the cage nerf the most because you KNEW that it was the most broken piece of his kit. Then you act like the victim how he needs it to deal with assassins. You and Riot both know that the cage lacked counterplay. If veigar is ahead he just steamrolls his opponent. Then you say but qqs or zhonya and you completely counter me :( and people agree with you. The same argument could apply to zed but for some fucked up reason people bash on him. Double standards much? I can bet that if veigar was a more popular champ prior to rework he would have just as many QQ posts as Zed.
That's a whole lot of words to admit your stupidity. Looks like a Riot post. If you couldn't figure out how to counter old Veigar, the problem is you.
PS There is no "getting used to" a rework when that rework is "Hey everything you do sucks now." If you think Veigar is now a new champion, you're a moron. He's the same champion but worse in practically every way. Also lol that you can't see a difference between Zed and Veigar.
