Let's get straight to the point

Ahristocats·Jan 22, 2018·25 votes·2,013 views

when can we finally expect nerfs?

no counterplay rightclicking high range hypercarries that dominate since ardent meta,

legit since 8 months we didn't get any changes to stop them from dominating bot lane

66 Comments

redniwediSJan 22, 20185 votes

Besides Tristana's jump the two of them are pretty low on mobility. Riot had a recent video saying they want to look into bot lanes that don't have marksmen, and I don't expect it to be fun for them when they face Ziggs, Azir, and other high damage AP champs that would love the lane.

They might not get nerfs, but they are going to get a meta shift that very well might trash them.

AhristocatsJan 22, 201813 votes

yea

and beside zac's E he's fairly immobile

redniwediSJan 22, 20189 votes

Yes, actually.

Maybe I should have worded it better. Someone with high mobility like Lucian can easily dodge skillshots and stuff, where as someone like Tristana or Zac, even though they can cover a lot of distance with their jumps, cannot use their mobility as a dodging tool.

I thought it was pretty obvious based on context, but hopefully this cleared it up.

AhristocatsJan 22, 20185 votes

it was obvious, but irrelevant

tristana being immobile without W doesn't mean shit because W is here and exists

redniwediSJan 22, 20187 votes

That's not the point I was making and you should know it if it's so obvious. Tristana W is not a mobility tool designed for dodging skillshots. That is the reason I didn't count it, because I was talking about champions going bot lane who do well against champs that can't easily dodge skillshots.

AhristocatsJan 22, 20183 votes

you don't need to dodge skillshots

you're a mother hellish adc, in front of you you have a frontline that eats skillshots

unless you're talking about 1v1, but that's a terrible logic because this game is 5v5 and everyone in high elo knows it and group 5v5 to let them adcs destroy everyone

redniwediSJan 22, 20185 votes

Again I think it's pretty obvious I was talking about a 2v2 bot lane in the lane phase. No need to guess, just look at my previous posts for context.

Riot had a recent video saying they want to look into bot lanes that don't have marksmen, and I don't expect it to be fun for them when they face Ziggs, Azir, and other high damage AP champs that would love the lane.

Right here is the context you need. Early game for a front line support is hell against mage supports already, so having a mage in the carry role won't be much better for them, so eating all the skillshots for your ADC is a horrible idea.

AhristocatsJan 22, 20183 votes

wait so you legit think that skillshot pokes is what tristana going to have a problem with?

and who the fuck has a 5 sec cd dash in laning phase to escape skillshots that are spammed every seconds?

you legit think that tristana will be balanced, because mages are going to go bot?

what about other marksmen? how are you going to make it so tristana doesn't dominate every single champion of her class?

redniwediSJan 22, 20185 votes

This is going nowhere. You're forcing me into a loop of constantly defending things I said, instead of making any attempt to have a dialogue to see why I think what I think, and then criticize it by offering your own point of view.

I'm out.

AirKingNeoJan 23, 20181 votes

Because if you don't defend anything you say, you lose. You refuse to prove your point, so you lose.

No one is forcing you to not say what you want. Just type it out in the next paragraph.

redniwediSJan 23, 20185 votes

I've been in too many threads where that second paragraph is ignored to want to even bother anymore.

If I write something that is unclear I'm more than happy to explain it in another way to get the point across, but when I have to defend myself from this sort of nonsense it's just not worth the time, particularly when parts of my posts are ignored.

AirKingNeoJan 24, 20181 votes

Now you're playing victim. You're saying you're being forced to not to type something because no one will listen.

You didn't have much credibility in my eyes, but now you're negative.

redniwediSJan 24, 20182 votes

Do you know what playing the victim card means? It doesn't look like you know what it means.

redniwediSJan 24, 20182 votes

No, it's not. It's a realistic assessment of how the conversation was going. There was no room to get back to the original conversation because the point of confusion was not being cleared up, after multiple attempts. The OP was thinking one thing, I was trying to explain another, and it just wasn't working.

I said I was out, the OP stopped replying, and we ended on what is hopefully good terms.

Speaking of which, why did you jump in exactly? You didn't really add anything, you just took things up where the OP left off. Don't jump into arguments you shouldn't be a part of, it's just poor style.

Plastic 5 ADCJan 23, 20181 votes

Jezus christ, every comment i go down i lose more braincells.

AhristocatsJan 23, 20182 votes

that's a shame for your braincells then

bbQsauçeJan 23, 20182 votes

[deleted]

redniwediSJan 23, 20181 votes

CC sure, but you can't dodge the damage. That's what I was getting at. It's not like Lucian's dash or Vayne's tumble where you can just rapidly get out of the way if you were not going to dodge it by walking.

paisyJan 22, 20186 votes

Besides Kat's E, she's fairly immobile

redniwediSJan 22, 20181 votes

Kat's E is instant, and doesn't have an animation that is still likely to get hit by what you're jumping away from.

ChaosThiefJan 23, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Kat's E is instant, and doesn't have an animation that is still likely to get hit by what you're jumping away from.

Actually... it has a short delay before blinking. Not completely instantaneous, but something close.

redniwediSJan 23, 20182 votes

Fair, but hopefully my point is clear enough.

AirKingNeoJan 24, 20181 votes

No, you just contradicted your own point.

redniwediSJan 24, 20181 votes

Read slower before posting please.

NyarlathοtepJan 23, 20181 votes

How can you compare tristana's dash with kata's blink? Like how please tell me.

paisyJan 23, 20182 votes

They both take you somewhere and reset

Infernal IronicJan 23, 20181 votes

As an ADC yasuo and both azir main

The ammount of drastic changes Azir would have to go through to become viable at bot issss ughh how shall we put it...immense

And ziggs is only Decent at best because Botlane first tower gimmick is to gimmick. There shouldnt be so high Gold diff between FB bot tower and other towers. 100 Gold diff would be enough to prevent laneswaps

redniwediSJan 23, 20181 votes

The only reason I mentioned it is because of two things:

On the PBE people are already playing both of these champions bot lane alongside Nunu support, due to the blood boil changes (not saying it's good, only that it was the first thing experimented with).
Riot has just recently said they want non-marksmen carries in bot lane.

Infernal IronicJan 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The only reason I mentioned it is because of two things:

On the PBE people are already playing both of these champions bot lane alongside Nunu support, due to the blood boil changes (not saying it's good, only that it was the first thing experimented with).

Riot has just recently said they want non-marksmen carries in bot lane.

I am aware of that

I already tried Azir bot. I tried Orianna bot. I tried bunch of mages bot nothing works

I dont think riot ll succeed with their goal without causing even more issues

redniwediSJan 23, 20181 votes

without causing even more issues

Well, that part I'll agree with at least.

hoganftwJan 22, 20185 votes

Kog is my favorite juggernaut, kills enemy from 800 range and doesnt fraid of anything

Dorans PantsJan 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Kog is my favorite juggernaut.. [sg-miss-fortune]

Master NoctJan 23, 20185 votes

People forget MF which is just really abused in this meta, lol. Literally if you don't ban her, you see her. Same with Vayne. I'm actually surprised Ez hardly gets banned and subsequently picked, as opposed to MF, Vayne, or Trist, hell, even Twitch I haven't seen much anymore.

MF's Q damage seems to really punish people, which I get, but sometimes her Q bounce angle is incredibly long/stupid, and deals 150-200 dmg early + Aery/Comet since adc's seem to love taking that now along with relic shield. Her ult is like an immobile Lucian ult, but much wider and goes through everything BUT Braum shield and Yasuo Windwall, as opposed to getting stopped by that minion that wants to be the hero of the day, then the next one, and the next one, lol. She gets bloody 100 movement speed free just for either not getting hit, or pressing W, which is a LOT considering people usually run around 350-500 tops, she's hitting 550-600 easily, making it already hard to catch up to her, or escape her.

BlåbæretJan 23, 20181 votes

In low elo Ez isn't worth banning because people pick him into an enemy tank comp while he builds IB and deals 0 damage. People also don't know how to play him or how to make a comp around him, so ya.

Trist, Xayah, Vayne, MF etc. are all better bans. The difference is that MF is one of the easier ADCs to lock down compared to the others. Kog tends to just get Lulu and becomes unkillable anyway.

LongtowelJan 24, 20181 votes

MF can be really strong against an incompetent enemy lane.

But as someone who played MF a fair bit, I don't have as much trouble dealing with an enemy MF. She might cause me to lose a few CS here and there, but only because I give them up to dodge the Q. You need to be able to see every minion and the area which the MF Q will hit you.

Follow the basic rules of laning, and avoid as much harass as possible.

In a straight up all in, she actually has less advantages compared to other ADCs early game, because her Q is basically an auto reset without the bounce, and she has very little in terms of her ability to dodge skill shots in a fight. She also has relatively low attack speed, as she doesn't build AS and her W early on doesn't give that much.

Her ultimate is also less useful in a 2v2 compared to say Vayne ult unless it's set up perfectly, and can be easily dodged/interrupted if you know what you're doing.

However, at the end of the day, she is really strong. Knowledge, experience, and skill is needed to deal with her properly.

TheProfezzorJan 22, 20183 votes

I rarely ever see Kog maw

WeedbroJan 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I rarely ever see Kog maw

KogMaw

Who is TaliyahJan 23, 20181 votes

He is super dominant in dia+ with 58% winrate last week and basically pick and ban here. Not picking kogmaw when he is open is even considered trolling right now.

HudnofskiBlehJan 23, 20183 votes

Tbh, they should just nerf crit items. Tristana hasn't really been changed and she was kinda low tier before crit items were so powerful.

AirKingNeoJan 23, 20182 votes

Xayah and Kalista too.

AhristocatsJan 23, 20182 votes

kalista is already receiving nerfs on her ult

AirKingNeoJan 23, 20181 votes

like that fixes the passive being broken issue.

AhristocatsJan 23, 20181 votes

it does, wanna know why?

because the passive isn't broken in the first place

any slow reduces kalista's dash speed which means her attack speed because she needs to finish her jump to attack again if you apply any slow, she literally becomes a free kill and u can by slows with items

the reason kalista is pick/ban in competition is because never an ult has been so broken until kalista's release

it saves a support for free, literally unable to do anything to prevent kalista from saving a support and then it turns into a counter engage by throwing the support to get an AOE 2 sec knock up

Akali is SO HOTJan 23, 20182 votes

Twitch Increase stealth radius thx

Bob the ToastrJan 23, 20182 votes

Was expecting Twitch Vayne Was disappointed

PennsJan 22, 20181 votes

I remember when Jhin MissFortune Draven were opie around preseason but everything changed when the cancer nation attacked KogMaw Vayne Tristana item 3302 https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/4/46/Fleet_Footwork_rune.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/55?cb=20171126182047 xd

AhristocatsJan 22, 20185 votes

jhin wasn't op

ezreal was op the entire preseason

PennsJan 22, 20181 votes

both were opie tho Comet lethality Jhin (and Varus and MF) + some other Comet dude like Xerath or an all in tank was the shit in preseason until double Relic became a thing and ezreal + kalista as per usual lel

AhristocatsJan 22, 20182 votes

jhin had 48% win rate please stop

tho u were right and u got downvoted sorry for ya friend

PennsJan 22, 20181 votes

Ryze and Azir still have a lower win rate than that tho [sg-poppy]