Cassiopeia Passive Idea Thread

Electro522··8 votes·2,452 views

http://th05.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2013/001/5/d/cassiopeia__the_serpent_s_embrace_by_senryuji-d5q0lr0.jpg

So, the Cassiopeia discussion (or, should I say, argument?) is still going on after only God knows how many months. I've been keeping a close eye on it, and I have noticed that everyone crying out for Cass has been begging for a new passive.

Just recently, people have started asking for a thread on ideas for a new passive on Cass, however, Stashu is a little hesitant on making the thread. I can certainly understand why, out of all the hate that has been directed towards him as of late. So, I thought it would be a good idea for a neutral entity to post the thread.

Just as a disclaimer, I am by no means a Riot employee, and any ideas posted in this thread have no guarantee that it will show up on live. In fact, any ideas posted may have a chance of never being seen. Just keep that in mind when you post an idea.

Rioters, you do not have to come into this thread if you do not want to. However, you can use it just as something to brainstorm off of if you feel the need to.

As for all of the ragers out there, I BEG of you to keep the raging out of this thread. PLEASE keep it informative and productive. If someone is to just simply rage in this thread, then I ask the rest of you to downvote that comment into oblivion. Raging only makes situations worse, no matter what format they are in, and thus, we do not need it here.


To start things off, I will post my own idea for a new passive.

(Please remember that all numbers are just for show. If used, they will more then likely need to be tweaked)

Aspect of the Serpent

For each second an enemy unit is poisoned by Cassiopeia, they gain a permanent stacking debuff. For each stack of Aspect of the Serpent, Cassiopeia deals 5% more damage to the target (max 30 stacks, or 150% more damage).

All stacks are lost if the target OR Cassiopeia dies.

My reasoning behind this new passive basically ties into snakes themselves. Most snakes that are venomous obviously use their venom to kill their prey or whomever they feel is threatening them. The more venom you have in your system, the less likely you are to survive.

Gameplay wise, this not only helps her in lane when farming, but also helps in trades. The longer the fight goes, the more damage she will deal. If she happens to lose a trade, she can come back and more then likely win the next trade. In teamfights, Cass would want them to drag out; pretty much the opposite of how assassins want them to go: as fast as fricken possible. If she is able to get some reliable stacks on the enemy team, it could negate an entire initiation, and even force some recalls. If someone happens to be carrying the enemy team, then Cass will want to focus that carry even more so then her allies, for if she can take down their carry, or at least push them out of the fight, it not only becomes a 4v5, it could become a very one sided 4v5.

If she kills her target, then they can come back and get some revenge on her, since her damage on them specifically would have dropped through the floor. Also, death for Cass hurts ALOT more for her then other champs. She has to work to get those stacks, and when the entire enemy team loses their stacks, all that work lost is sure to make somebody wince. This should make Cass players far more hesitant and force them to make a decision to go all in or not. "Is it worth the risk to lose all of my stacks on the enemy team?" It also keeps the stacks from sticking to all of the champs all throughout the game (pretty sure no one wants a debuff on them when they respawn).

So, tell me what you guys think. Feel free to post your own ideas, but, like I said, PLEASE keep it informative and productive!

4 Comments

Serpents Embrace6 votes

Honest?

Revert the rework. Give her Deadly Cadence back. Nerf Q in a way that hurts early game and not end game (lower base damage at low ranks, current at high ranks and put the scaling AP ratio on this ability instead, perhaps) give E and R the QOL improvements (the E reset works great now that it isn't "bugged", and the R is a lot more reliable).

Test that and balance accordingly.

She doesn't need a fancy passive. She was already a high skill cap, complex character. That kind of character needs a simple passive that enables them to focus on their ability use and their positioning. Jinx is a good example, she has a lot of things going on in her kit - a lot of ranges to keep in mind and manage. Her passive doesn't make you think about it, it just gives you an enabling boost when you do something that the kit wants you to do. For Jinx, it's secure a kill or objective - for Cassiopeia it was merely using her abilities.

LoL Cow1 votes

Huh. A thread doing exactly what I was going to do, slightly earlier than when I did it, that I didn't know about until now. . . Well, one thread is better than two. I'll just copy + paste my thread in here and get rid of the old one. Aleyoop.

Greetings.

As those of you who've been active in this discussion have probably deduced, this post is going to be my take on arguably the most widely loathed champion rework in recent history, and what might be able to be done in order to give Cassiopeia back her identity, as a threatening DoT stacking tankmelter.

So, without further adieu, let's dive into the meat of the issue.

Since her recent rework, there have been myriad threads expressing disdain at the apparent apathy with which it was handled, and the lack of regard that seemed to be given to preserving her uniqueness and identity, moving forward.

The biggest and most controversial fish on the cutting board today, is her passive, Aspect of the Serpent.

The growth curve, the effects, the milestones, all of these snicker aspects, have earned it a good deal of condemnation.

Some say it takes far too long to become useful. Others find it to be a non-sequitur of a skill, which makes no sense in regards to the character it belongs to.

I am not without suggestions as to how this can be remedied, and it so happens I'm inclined to share my ideas as to what the Lux can be done, about Cassiopeia.

Note: Unless otherwise specified, stats on passive scale up at levels 6, 11 and 16, as is the standard.

Suggested Passive: Diabolical Ambition.

Effect: Exacerbates the effects of individual skills, when used together with E: Twin Fang.

Q: Increases skill damage by ( 10%, 15%, 25% ) per stack and refreshes poison duration. Stacks 3 times.

This change will give her Q a good bit of reliability and discourage counter-play that revolves around jumping down her throat and ripping her in half, while encouraging counter-play that involves feinting, so champions like Katarina can't just win their lanes pre-6, by diving headfirst into Cassiopeia's boobs and rolling their faces on their keyboards for a few seconds.

The stacking effect will also give those quick and savvy enough to land a few Es after dropping their Q a good deal of ranged poke, and will reduce the effectiveness of potion camping as a counter to her DoTs, giving laning opponents no excuse to stand in her damage.

W: Increases slow effect by ( 10%, 20%, 30% ) per stack, stacking up to 3 times and applying a ( 1, 1.5, 2 ) second stun with the third stack.

This change addresses Cassiopeia's biggest weakness: Her inability to seal the deal. Cassiopeia in her current form, struggles when it comes to reaping the fruits of her labors.

Landing a rotation on a target successfully may drain their HP by a decent amount in pretty short order, but the very moment they start walking in the other direction, Cassiopeia's dreams of enjoying a hot meal are shattered by her lack of ability to make her damage count towards her own kill count.

Most opponents will simply walk away from her and return at a later time with back-up. The sheer amount of time it takes Cassiopeia to make her damage count for anything, makes her extremely easy to ambush, and a prime target for early ganking, as well as an extremely needy component of any team fight, requiring a good deal of time and freedom to make her presence felt when the poro droppings hit the fan.

Laning opponents needn't fear meaningful retaliation when rushing Cassiopeia down, and are free to make plays that otherwise would put them at risk of feeding, due to her inability to reliably prevent their escape.

Q+W: Heals Cassiopeia by ( 150+75% AP, 200+75%AP, 300+75% AP ) upon casting E: Twin Fang on the target champion ( max 2 uses ) and regenerates MP by ( 10, 20, 40 )% of poison damage dealt by both skills.

Think of this as a replacement for her current MP/HP regeneration mechanic. Cassiopeia's CS is really the only thing OP about her at the moment, with her E allowing her free reign to last hit a vast majority of the minions she poisons, while simultaneously keeping the MP flowing.

This has effectively tied her to the opposing team's creeps and made trading poke with her opponent detrimental to her progress in lane.

This change will give her more incentive to pressurize her lane as well as an answer to brutal, dream-crushing mid-lane wrecking balls like Zed, Katarina and Talon, who crap all over her plodding early game damage rate with little to no effort.

E: When E: Twin Fang is cast upon a poisoned or petrified target, its cooldown is reduced to 0.5 seconds.

Nothing much to say. It's the same as before, although I'd suggest a heavy nerf to its overall damage and a moderate one to its MP cost.

This will provide her with both the incentive and the ability, to use her passive to its utmost capacity.

R: Upon casting E: Twin Fang, Cassiopeia tackles and bites the target, dealing ( 150+100% AP, 250+100% AP, 400+100% AP, scaling with R level ) and granting Cassiopeia ( 10%, 15%, 30% ) bonus movement speed for each target struck, for 5 seconds. Can be used up to 3 times. Cannot be used on the same target twice.

Bitten targets are afflicted with Insidious Toxin, which drains the target's HP by ( 5%, 10%, 20% ) of the current amount and the target's MP by ( 10%, 20%, 30% ) of the maximum over 3 seconds.

This right here, is the creme de la creme of my suggested changes.

Her ult at the moment, is to put it lightly, polarizing.

It doesn't do much damage, its crowd control is powerful but short lived and extremely conditional, its casting time telegraphs it, allowing opponents to dodge it with almost no effort and it becomes practically useless when the target isn't facing Cassiopeia, allowing opponents to almost completely ignore it, by simply walking back and forth.

This change gives it purpose and potential, even in situations where the target isn't facing Cassiopeia. Now, while I'm not suggesting that her R should stun targets regardless of their direction, I DO think you shouldn't be able to waste it completely by simply moving the way most people do naturally in lane anyway.

Even when using it upon an advancing target, the casting time is still so massive that most assassins and even a few slower champs, have more than enough time to move through the damage range and to Cassiopeia, before it hits them, making it less useful as a counter and narrowing its utility to the point where it's almost useless in many situations.

This will improve her ability to fight back against her pursuers, who currently merely have to close the gap between themselves and Cassiopeia ( a simple task ) in order to dispatch her with a high degree of success.

The follow-up E augment, will make her opponents feel like her ult is something to be wary of, rather than simply something to be ignored, as they press forward into her bosom and open a can of Kratos brand whupass, as well as giving her more avenues for escape.

You'd figure a snake would be slipperier then she presently is, wouldn't you?

That about does it for her passive.

Moving onto her Q, I don't have much to interject here.

With the suggested changes to her passive allowing a skilled Cassiopeia to keep her fangs out until the time comes to detach her jaw and swallow her prey, by managing her MP consumption during prolonged engagements, its MP cost and damage are fine the way they are, when complimented by the aforementioned augments.

Now comes her W.

Only a few suggestions here really, and they have more to do with implementation than anything.

The only problem I have with it, is the logic of its hitbox scaling. It starts out small and gradually becomes larger. This makes very little sense to me from a PvP perspective.

I'd suggest reversing the scaling logic here, so that it shrinks from its maximum size to its minimum size, rather than vice versa, which would allow Cassiopeia to more easily poison champions she hasn't successfully engaged, while the re-application feature would be limited in usefulness to standstill engagements.

As for her E, a few nerfs to its overall damage as was mentioned earlier, and a lower early MP cost would make her less about chunking burst, and more about undermining her opponent's HP/MP over time.

Now for the changes to her R.

Her R right now, is in a very peculiar place. Approaching Cassiopeia should be dangerous, like cornering an agitated, striking viper, but with her R's overlong, telegraphed animation, weak overall damage and short crowd control effects, she doesn't have much of an answer to being pushed against the wall.

I suggest halving that brutal cast time, in exchange for allowing Cassiopeia to charge the skill.

What effect would that have on it, you might ask?

Well, I was thinking that it could start out as a narrow cone, with the same range it currently has and expand the longer she holds it, allowing dexterous Cassiopeia players to throw down clutch CC in the heat of the moment against a single target, or to bathe a crowd in it during larger scale engagements.

The damage could scale down the longer she holds it while the stun duration could scale upwards, giving the focused and narrow incarnation greater damage, but less utility and the charged version greater utility, but lower damage.

Now, you're probably wondering "But Naw-thee-as ( No-Thigh-As, damn it ), are you REALLY suggesting with that passive up there, that she should be able to stun-lock people for such a massive amount of time, that she'll be able to use her E on three people before they can even start moving?"

Actually, no.

I propose that targets struck by her R could retain a 'petrified' status effect for 5 or 6 seconds afterward, allowing targets to get bit well after the slow or stun has worn off, and they're free to either flee or fight the cuddliest naga this side of the Noxian badlands.

Aside from a few odds and ends, this wraps up the meat of my suggestion here.

All of these numbers are flexible, so tinker with them however you want and tell me what you think.

Feedback would be appreciated.

Electro5221 votes

Why thank you! Unfortunately, this thread seems like it was just passed by by everyone. An upvote to it will really help get both of our ideas out to the public.

Tendrian1 votes

Envenom

Everytime Cassiopeia deals damage with poison, 1 stack of Envenom is applied to the target. A target will take 10% more damage from poison for every stack of Envenom (stacks up to 10 times)

Q: No changes

W: Base slow reduced, but increased by 5% for every stack of Envenom. When Miasma deals damage to a target with 10 stacks of Envenom, the target is rooted for 1,5 seconds (no target can be rooted twice by the same Miasma)

E: Also applies a stack of Envenom on hit

R: Stunning a target applies 4/5/6 stacks of Envenom Slowing a target applies 2/3/4 stacks of Envenom

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