Boards›Gameplay

Remember when Lee wasn't nerfed because of "community backlash"

Visigoth··64 votes·2,790 views

But in actuality 90% of players wanted him gutted at the time? And then Kha'Zix got destroyed, and so did Elise, and players hated that, but Riot just said "Deal with it."

Then jungle gets gutted for everyone EXCEPT Lee Sin, Vi, J4, Nidalee, and Rek'Sai. Literally nobody thinks jungle changes are good, but Riot just says "Deal with it." Then Azir, Veigar, Mordekaiser, Zilean, and Kassadin all get destroyed (and put at about 40% winrate), but Riot just says "Deal with it."

Remember when they said Kassadin was too mobile for his "burst damage" Nidalee Leblanc.

Stop ignoring us. Based on the Red Tracker literally 95% of Rioters on the boards are only posting on fan art and shit. And whenever a Rioter does respond it's usually Ghostcrawler or Meddler saying something along the lines of "The balance team is planning to make the jungle highly diverse" or something vague crap that gives us no answers.

Thanks Riot, you ruined my favorite role in 3 patches. Because instead of just nerfing the same five god damn junglers, you nerf the jungle as a whole, because champions like Rammus Evelynn and Shyvana are totally just as strong as Nidalee LeeSin and Vi.

Although at least the new tank item seems like it's on the right path for champions such as Rammus Nautilus DrMundo Shyvana and Zac

46 Comments

Malgana14 votes

IMO when people make a design change they should be forced to play it for 50 games.

Rrett3 votes

They should consult the best players for said champ and that would fix just about every problem. Even invite them to playtests, no one knows a champ better than the best person at that champ.

Solaxo11 votes

{quoted}

They should consult the best players for said champ and that would fix just about every problem. Even invite them to playtests, no one knows a champ better than the best person at that champ.

They used to do that... but now they are obsessed with killing their own game

Avios11 votes

Mmk, hurry up rito and play with me when im in my main Urgot.

RavenKouhai1 votes

{quoted}

IMO when people make a design change they should be forced to play it for 50 games.

But they have PBE players to test champs!

Oh, wait. They'll only reconsider a PBE change if it's in regards to a skin, not champ balance.

Joe Dredd10 votes

But then again 90% of the forums has some form of mental retardation (prob me included lmao) so the lee statistic is really a good one

Epicusmaximo2 votes

{quoted}

But then again 90% of the forums has some form of mental retardation (prob me included lmao) so the lee statistic is really a good one

Yeah I mean we've got people asking for nerfs on malzahar for fucks sake lol

Joe Dredd1 votes

i mean he does have a top win rate for a reason (^:

Champion Skin1 votes

Because people don't change up their build and get a QSS... but I need mah damage

Anidan1 votes

What's funny is that QSS is actually good against Malz, since it also gives Magic Resistance. More than can be said about the other champ people say to build it against. (Zed)

Champion Skin1 votes

QSS is just such a counter to Malz...

  1. it gives MR
  2. It removes his E (dot and possibly ignite)
  3. It removes the disable part of his ult (and you can move out of range or just start bashing at Malz)
  4. If you remove the disable part of Malz ult then you can walk out of his W avoiding a lot of it's damage (And it also removes the silence on his Q... for what that's worth)
Naelarstrasz4 votes

Riot is autistic to say it's okay for Lee Sin to have 100% win rates in multiple tournaments. But hey! They refuse to balance so I guess they're just rigging it at this point.

Joe Dredd1 votes

What tournament?

Naelarstrasz3 votes

Season 2 Regional Finals Seoul, Season 2 World Championship, IEM Season VII - Singapore, 2014 International Wild Card Tournament

And special mention:

100% pick ban rate in the following:

2014 Season Korea Regional Finals and HOT6iX Champions Summer 2014 Playoffs

Joe Dredd3 votes

Season 2 things are irrelevant, lee sin has received multiple large nerfs since then. Also, if you are picking tournaments that repeats it self for a lot of regions then I'm pretty sure that there are other champions that had 100% win rates for certain tournaments as well. And special mention: Alistar had 100% pick ban and an 80% win rate in worlds. WORLDS. Ali freelo pls nerf

Naelarstrasz1 votes

Alistar had a bug, didn't he? They took a shit on that.

Joe Dredd1 votes

What bug?

exiledFromBadmen1 votes

{quoted}

What bug?

W+AA, probably.

Joe Dredd1 votes

That wasn't a bug. Riot knew about it and allowed it until it became overbearing in top lane, similar to how vayne e was nerfed in the same respect

The Red Warden1 votes

He could auto attack between the W and Q which when combined with sheen proc dealt a lot more damage than you would expect.

Not to mention how there wasn't really a way for anyone to stop it do to w being an on-click effect.

Champion Skin1 votes

I don't think Q was used... I think it was just W + auto attack (item 3057 item 3087 ) and since W is a knock back... they are now away from you and can't really retaliate... (if they are melee anyways)

SchneidRpro1 votes

{quoted}

Riot is autistic to say it's okay for Lee Sin to have 100% win rates in multiple tournaments. But hey! They refuse to balance so I guess they're just rigging it at this point.

What are you talking about? Lee sin has a 27% win rate in the LCS right now, and has been picked multiple times. Your still in season 2...

RipReviveFkRito5 votes

And I'm here waiting for revive to return Karthus item 3070

Zone of Endless3 votes

They're like Aeriagames except instead of banning players it's nerfing champion

Riot's balance HQ probably has a dart board with every champ that doesn't make LCSBIGPLAYS

Then everyday they take turn throwing darts at it to see who will be nerfed next.

qetzel2 votes

Lee Sin has a consistently high pickrate - around 30%. HOwever much you, or anyone else, hates him, most people like him. Another exaggeration is the Red Tracker. If we look at the number of seperate threads on the RedTracker in the past week, we can clearly see an improvement in communication. Finally, you have seen the new item on the PBE. Have you seen the many, many buffs? Riot haven't just been sitting around. Balance and testing, particularly on a scalle as large as the jungle, takes time, and we are finally seeing some of that work.

Finally, Riot have not just said "Deal with it". We saw a partial revert on Syndra's stun, we have some of Azir's soldier attack range returning and Meddler has said that Veigar is going to be buffed sometime in the next few patches. I would expect others to follow.

A week ago this post could have passed by, but I don't think it applies now.

Thresh Outta Fux2 votes

Nerf Mobility Nerf the 5 Jungle Problems NERF ALL OF THE LCSBIGPLAYSCHAMPIONS

RookPusher2 votes

Hey, no offense bro-ham, but even as a B5 I will slap around the Gold Division as Rammus.

Towers>Kills

JedenVojak2 votes

I really don't understand why people rag so hard on Lee Sin.

I would say he has an interesting kit, which provides a good mix of mobility and general utility while being somewhat limited in scope. The nature of his kit also makes it so that he functions very effectively in the jungle, due to a combination of damage mitigation through his shield, lifesteal/spellvamp, a low threshold-high regen resource (energy), and an aoe ability to fight camps. He also has a very long skillshot based engage ability, which makes him fairly good at ganking lanes, assuming the nearby jungle wasn't warded and the

Much like other bruisers, he tends to 1 or 2 damage items early followed by tank items. Once the laning phase is over though, he runs into some issues:

  1. His engage is a skillshot, meaning that, in teamfight scenarios it can be intercepted by the frontline, meaning he won't be able to jump to the back, unlike other fighters with mobility abities (like Jax Q, or Irelia... uh dash? I never played her before)
  2. His only form of hard CC is his ultimate - yes it is fairly effective, but it's a melee range knockback so you need to already be in your enemy's face to use it (not that this is necessarily undesirable mind)

I mean, if you look at his kit and compare it to other fighers, what does he have? Some mobility, some tankiness, some CC, some utility, basically like every other generalist fighter. His abilities don't seem to be particularly overbearing when compared to other fighters, and I would say the only difference between him and them is his kit is well suited to sustaining and farming in the jungle. This makes him a stronger early game jungle presence, but outside of that, he's basically on par with most other fighters (that said I do find it annoying how he keeps kicking me away... Tryndamereitem 3124 JUST LET ME KILL YOU ALREADY). So... I don't get why people hate him so much.

Also, I seriously question your 90% statistic.

sir d wreck2 votes

No, I haven't forgotten when that happened to Lee because these forums mention every fucking day.

Rrett1 votes

I've always failed to see the excessive hate against lee from the community.

I've never once had a problem against lee besides the initial OP lee that was released.

As far as last 2 years go I don't think I have one bit of hate against him, to me he's just easy to play against.

KaisadiIIa1 votes

Shyvana is a monster at power-farming and counter-jungling. Yet she has no true gank potential.

Champion Skin1 votes

Well... too bad ganking is generally more valuable unless you scale insanely well... like Yi with his insane damage or something...

Imperial Japan1 votes

Could you not complain? I still play mid, jungle and whatever the last role that got nerfed to crap was. If you think those champs are SOOOOOOOOOO annoying and broken, play them. Srsly, just stop complaining please

Zyorhist2 votes

I honestly don't think that there are many overpowered champs out there, because I have played as them. They are frustrating as crap to play as and getting to where you do what you want to do is hard, even with tons of practice. So when everything goes right and they manage to do what it is they want to do they are called OP. Just play them and see how un-op they are.

SEKAI1 votes

So it's the idea of "you can't beat them, join them"?

Most OP champs gets nerfed after a while, then there is Lee Sin. His most major problem is actually his "influence".

Imperial Japan1 votes

Im meaning that yes, their are very "OP" champs but everyones basically saying "theirs no counterplay" so then play him. Because apparently they have no counterplay. Besides 99% of the people have never played that champ and could know what is able to counter that champ and they can use the knowledge later on

SchneidRpro1 votes

You have no statistics to actually prove that 90% of people want him gutted...

iMaB3AST1 votes

Maybe so but u can type lee sin in the boards and c all the "NERF LEE SIN" posts

Jungle Lux God1 votes

I think the reason it looked like Lee Sin wasn't nerfed due to "community backlash" was because the changes being planned were so out of line with what Lee Sin players liked about Lee Sin that it was more a matter of nerfing Lee Sin into an entirely new champ, not nerfing Lee Sin into a slightly weaker Lee Sin.

This wasn't the case with any other champ you mentioned. Kha'zix is still Kha'zix. Elise is still Elise. Azir is still Azir. Veigar is still Veigar. Mordekaiser is still Mordekaiser. Zilean is still Zilean. Kassadin is still Kassadin. They may be weaker than they were before (I do agree that all of them are significantly weaker than they were before, except Zilean), but they are still fundamentally the same champ.

I don't think it is fair for him to be changed in a way that removes his core playstyle, because obviously he's fun for a lot of players, but at the same time I don't think it is fair for him to be at the power level he currently is at, especially when he's been this consistently overpowered for the past few seasons, because it's not fun for the champion picks to be as stagnant as they have been in the jungle.

Sirin Gioro1 votes

Because most of the Rioters are Ledditors instead of "Boarders." Leddit is full of filthy Lee Sin mains defending their freelo champion. Not surprised.

SEKAI1 votes

Balance the jungle creep power/ buff other junglers then nerf those who do a ton of stuff by building the exact same thing over and over, give them risks and make then choose.

It's a pretty clear cut case for me, idk why Riot made it so complicated in the first place. Yes I get you need to really dig into the numbers to access and properly adjust, but really, how many more YEARS do we have to wait for a proper jungle scene? It's really not asking too much at this point.

Phoenix Kotori 1 votes

I was gonna upvote, but then you tried to defend kassadin, so have a -1.

RavenKouhai2 votes

{quoted}

I was gonna upvote, but then you tried to defend kassadin, so have a -1.

Was Kassadin really an issue anymore? He hasn't been pick or ban since he lost the silence, but then they decide to nerf him out of the blue.

Regardless of power, no champion should be completely gutted.

Phoenix Kotori 1 votes

No champion should have double flash range any direction mobility on >5 second CD.

Was the nerf over kill maybe? But was something needed yes. He should be balanced around have less extreme mobility than that.

Colgate Gator1 votes

ANd then you remember he actually has been nerfed quite the numerous times.

Lee is still strong, but he has been toned down quite a lot.

His AS removal from cripple and him not gaining shield from his W for example, and this is just loosely remembering about it.

Paradise Proxy1 votes

{quoted}

Then Azir, Veigar, Mordekaiser, Zilean, and Kassadin all get destroyed

Let's be real, the Zil and Morde changes were good.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Visigoth

Welcome to Nerflandia
Gameplay112 comments
379
votes
Why not give portraits as profile icons for champion mastery
Gameplay73 comments
255
votes
**URGENT ISSUE WITH NEW HUD**
Gameplay63 comments
224
votes
Riot, nerf the items or the champion, don't completely destroy both
Gameplay83 comments
183
votes
Kalista's Sentinels give assists
Gameplay100 comments
183
votes
Mordekaiser literally has his name, and his E left.
Gameplay87 comments
171
votes