I refuse to play Pyke

GreyfellD·Jan 21, 2019·2 votes·2,981 views

I dunno... I just feel dirty playing him considering how much more overloaded and power crept he is compared to other supports. Are there other champions that people won't play on principle?

22 Comments

HotarµJan 21, 20197 votes

I love how people have this massive double standard when it comes to Pyke.

Let's just ignore the fact that Thresh and Alistar have been stronger and more meta for longer periods of time and in Thresh's case has consistently maintained a higher playrate and winrate. But you're right, he's overloaded even though he has no heal or shield abilities, he dies in a second or less from being focused, all of his moves are telegraphed, and he relies entirely on his ultimate in teamfight. Pro players have outright said that he's meant for SoloQ, not organized play like Ali/Thresh.

The only thing I'll agree with people on is that his passive is too overbearing on lane. Pyke's early game is risky but by the time he hits level 6-10 he's already regening 40%+ of the damage he's taking on top of his decent base stats (for that period of the game) and his utilization of Aftershock.

bring on the downvotes

GreyfellDJan 21, 20191 votes

Thresh and Alister can be counterplayed are not so strong at the start of the game. They also DON'T have the defensive countermeasures that Pyke has to escape.

HotarµJan 21, 20196 votes

Pyke can be countered just like anyone else can though?

His abilities have long startup indicators, they're easily dodged with simple movement speed boosts or dashes. Shutting down his ultimate nearly completely removes him from teamfights unlike Alistar and Thresh who consistently remain threats to anyone trying to engage on his ADC. Having a Pyke with no ult also significantly reduces a team's kill power, meaning his team can suffer heavily for his misplays.

On top of that, he dies immediately when focused or locked down and can't build resistances anymore, the most survivability he will ever have is from Aftershock or Guardian Angel (which most Pyke players won't buy until very late in the game if they even do purchase one)

So, to recap: Squishy with the inability to build resistances, unreliable peel for his ADC (especially in hectic teamfights), no heals or shields, telegraphed abilities that can be dodged by simple mobility spells or MS boosts, and entirely reliant on his ultimates in teamfights.

No counters to Pyke though

ValknutJan 21, 20191 votes

So play morg, and counter alistar an thresh... Pro play isnt soloQ and soloQ stoompers are what 99% of the player bases problems occur with.

IllabetheJan 21, 20194 votes

Maybe that's why you have a skewed opinion of him. Anyone whose played him knows exactly why he's a 48% champ, and what he ACTUALLY does, other than just stealing/securing kills. He actually has some of the largest weaknesses in the game.

MiracleMorg94Jan 21, 20191 votes

Honestly I feel he isn't really a support. Should be a solo laner instead.

WukongMainJan 21, 20192 votes

But his ulti gives full gold to the adc when he executes someone.

Best support loves himself and his ad carry equally.

sharing is caring.

GreyfellDJan 21, 20192 votes

Its a tacked on ability to turn an assassin into a support, he isn't a support at all.

MiracleMorg94Jan 21, 20191 votes

If I wasn't under level 30 I would upvote this. 100% agreed.

The EcdysiastJan 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Its a tacked on ability to turn an assassin into a support, he isn't a support at all.

Not sure who's downvoting you. This is just the fact of it. He simply isn't a support. That's why they felt the need to add that gold share at all.

What he should be is a jungler, and have that removed. He already has pretty good clear and gank potential anywy. Shoving him bot where he gets no farm just gimps him.

Dorans PantsJan 21, 20191 votes

You state it like it´s a negative when this was the sole intention from the start. Adding different playstyles to a role which is so severely lacking on that front. They tried it before with Rakan by adding utility to the mobility of the champ but failed in my opinion since his most dominant feature and the reason he is picked is his braindead R-W combo and so he ends up like most traditional supports, dependent on others, unsatisfying to play, but reliable and therefore highly requested.

In comparison to that pyke usually has to make use of every part of his kit and almost every execution of one of these parts can fail, but since the kit is not as one-dimensional as your typical support kit you also have the opportunity to make very rewarding decisions as compensation. This is nice for support players who would like to make more meaningful and impactful decisions, but for adcs this sucks because every increment of power the support has for himself is one the adc could have gotten.

Because that is the relationship you usually have with traditional supports. All lot of power from the support injected into the adc in the least mechanical demanding way to the point where the support is basically a walking item and just like rakan it´s super reliable, super effective and boring as hell to play for the support as the main bulk of player agency is stripped away and transferred to another player.

And the superiority of this playstyle is still up to debate. Mage supports proofed to be effective, pyke proofed to be effective and how much less utility does pyke really offer in comparison to some accepted supports? Bard´s cc can range from game changing to non-existend, Taric has one cc-spell with a huge delay and the rest of his power budget is shoved into his ult which also has a delay, and champs like sona only have cc on their ults. Pyke and mage supports often offer more peel than a lot of other supports, dmg not even taken into account.

But the real problem is not how effective they are or if they are balanced or not or if they fit the criteria for supports, whatever that even means. In the end, it comes down to the fact that these supports work with the adc and not for them. They are less dependent and have more agency over their own games, which weakens the position adcs are in.

It boils down to:" hey, don´t take any power for yourself! Just give it to me so I can decide if we win or lose." and discussions about if an assassins-kit should/can work in a duo-lane are nothing more than a smokescreen.

MiracleMorg94Jan 21, 20191 votes

I hate that aspect of his ult. 50% execute is beyond stupid but takes kills away from the adc. I don't care that they get the gold for it. It hurts their end game score at the end and helps his.

Supports- assists. ADCs- kills.

Not the other way around.

WukongMainJan 21, 20195 votes

you do realize that the way you calculate someone scores gives the same value to kills and assists?

10/2/0 is the same score as a 0/2/10.

Both have the same score. Both have a 5.00:1 KDA.

also kda doesn't matter. The enemy died. Your team gets to push closer to the enemies base without resistance. it's a good thing.

MiracleMorg94Jan 21, 20191 votes

Matters to me. Supports don't take kills, period.

Not a good thing to me.

LTK KoRoJan 21, 20191 votes

ADCs logic, who cares about gold, only precious KDA matters

MiracleMorg94Jan 21, 20191 votes

Because a ksing support goes against what an actual support IS.

And I'm not an ADC main. Just a person who's been playing since season 4 and hates this stupid champ that goes against everything a support is.

Supports- assists. ADCs- kills. That's the way it is, period.

Tecness0Jan 21, 20191 votes

I refuse to play; Azir - I'm just god awful at him Zoe - Flash has a 5 minute cooldown. Who thought it was a good idea to give a champion the ability to flash 14 times in a 20 second window? Neeko - Seriously, she has an amumu ultimate, that gives a shield, slows, and does nearly double damage with +50% ap scaling. Why?

SirsirJan 21, 20191 votes

He's so fun tho :)

I gave up on the white night schtick a while ago. If you don't abuse the hell out of something broken how are people going to know it needs fixing?

boricCentaur1Jan 21, 20191 votes

POWER CREPT lol what his hook is worst then thresh and bliz hook, his cc puts him behind the enemy so idk what that is a power creep of since most aoe hard ccs don't put you in that situation and are harder to predict, his w yeah it is a great roaming tool but most supports do not have a roaming tool maybe bard but he does it for other reasons so idk so that not a power ceep and it is a shit escape so it is not a power creep of that. His r is his thing and if you're using power crept to say he is the best support then you're dead wrong since there are plenty of better supports and if that is the care you're using power crept wrong. You want a real example of a power crept wukong w and neeko w neekos does almost the same thing but better.

ValknutJan 21, 20191 votes

You think his hook is the worst, I say its the best. The charge animation provides more zone time if you just want to zone people off a pick. It also has a stronger low range use then Blitz as it will pull someone behind you.

Threshs hook is strongest if it lands, you get huge CC zone and lock down time. Blitz is solid for picks, but when his hook is down he doesnt have a kit to fall back on like pyke an thresh. Pykes hook can also come from a character in stealth, which the other 2 don't have an option for.

Dorans PantsJan 21, 20191 votes

Fizz Vayne Kaisa