Can we do something about heimer and swain bot?

Rexxiee·Jul 29, 2018·11 votes·6,909 views

Its already bad enough to play super nerfed adcs, and now you have to lane against those tumors aswell?

Heimer almost 55% wr in the bot lane btw.

18 Comments

Tahminatrix Jul 29, 20183 votes

MissFortune TahmKench does pretty good against heimer,

Ive been spitting his turrets infront of him while miss fortune qs them.

If we can kill 2 birds with 1 stone we can kill swain.

IceAYonJul 29, 20182 votes

Bot lane isn't only adcs now.

DuskDaUmbreonJul 29, 20184 votes

Yes, but 3 of the top 5 people botlane are mages (who, despite what some people would claim, are still very much viable in mid).

And Heimer being 55% winrate in botlane is just absurd - There were champions hotfix gutted for lower winrates.

IceAYonJul 29, 20181 votes

For Heimerdinger, I honestly don't know, cause it sounds weird if I said he had a kind of high mechanical skill cap or u could just watch one dude who show you all of his tricks in a few videos.

They can nerf his W dmg, since most Heimerdinger newbies probably know the way to make the enemy champion get hit by at least one-three missiles and it's practically impossible to dodge by trying to sidestep it.

DuskDaUmbreonJul 29, 20181 votes

Nerf his W damage, make him unable to keep his R-empowered Q out if he Zhonya's (or, fuck, just Zhonya it with him), make him have to aim his Q, nerf the number he can have out at once at lower levels (tie it to levels, not ranks like the old system had), nerf the mana cost on his Q, reduce the cast time on his W, make it easier for champions to kill his turrets, make his turrets less aggressive towards champions with a minion in range...

There are a lot of possible nerfs to him. The biggest change necessary though is to make him just less anti-interactive. Being a hard person to dive is fine, but making it so they always die if they dive onto you is just a bad mechanic. And his turrets just being untouchable for any melee (or any low-range champion) is also terrible. It's like if Malzahar's E automatically jumped to a champion if one was in range, but didn't disappear against minions and just sits there without vanishing if all enemy minions die.

IceAYonJul 29, 20181 votes

the turrets are needed to help him farm, so making changes to his turrets current and turret cost might make him garbage.

But making turrets only agro the champions when Heimerfdinger only auto attack them or use his abilites on them. Also including that it targets you when there isn't any minions around. (Basically not including the random times the turret attacks you after they finish a minion even tho there are more minions around)

As a Heimerdinger player who doesn't use stopwatch or Zhonyas, I like the idea Zhonya the ult turret with him. If that does too well, we will go with your first idea.

DuskDaUmbreonJul 29, 20183 votes

There are plenty of champions that need their abilities to farm, Heimer is hardly unique in that aspect.

Part of the problem is that Heimer's turrets last until killed or replaced. This means his mana cost is only once per turret, and it's just not punishing enough to him or rewarding enough to his opponent for it to be killed. Upping the mana cost means that he's punished far more if you actually kill the goddamned things. While adding a maximum duration to them would technically fix the problem, it'd just feel shitty for Heimer players, so going with a higher mana cost instead would give them something to actually do in lane (protect your turrets).

I'd also like to see his turrets also follow normal turret priority - Attacking enemy champions only if there are no minions in range or if they attack an allied champion within their range. Maybe let Heimer prioritize which champion they'll attack with his autos/spells, or maybe even let him force their ago by that, but at least make them not autotarget an enemy champion if minions are still in range.

And, of course, as I said, Ult+Q+Zhonya's is just a massive problem. I don't know how well having his turret go into stasis if Heimer does would go, but it can't possibly go worse than it just being an uninteractive "lel lose half your health to this thing" crap situation for his opponent.

My Waifu VanillaJul 30, 20182 votes

They don't auto target champions. If he places a turret down next to you and 6 minions it is going to hit whatever is closest to the turret. It will ONLY shoot you if Heimer himself has hit you recently. It works the exact same as Zyra plants.

IceAYonJul 31, 20181 votes

Having his turret going into stasis with him will be a big nerf to him, since there are situations where Heimerdinger will just Zhonyas when he is low and you are almost there to kill him and you would have to walk out of turret range or the turret will keep shooting you and you might ending losing that fight.("outplay, am I right?" ha ha ha, plz.)

But at the same time, it would give Heimerdinger (and maybe the enemy also) time for your cooldowns to go away(it does that, right? If it doesn't, then it would be just a big nerf).

You get more gold than him if you kill his turrets and the minions.

Weird Idea if Riot can make it work, the more turrets you have down, the more it would cost to put another one down(if you have 2 or 3 down, it would cost more to put another one down) If you have 1 turret, it would cost less.

Just an example, it would cost you 10 mana to have your first turret down on your map, another 15 mana to put the second one down, and 20 mana for the third turret and replacing the first turret. The only problem with this is you are nerfing Heimdinger jungle unless the current extra mana regen on the starting jg item gives enough.

The numbers will likely to be lower if this went through, but likely average up to a higher mana cost to being higher than 10 mana per turret(that is the current, right?)

koshkyraJul 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but 3 of the top 5 people botlane are mages (who, despite what some people would claim, are still very much viable in mid).

And Heimer being 55% winrate in botlane is just absurd - There were champions hotfix gutted for lower winrates.

Mages arent viable mid right now. Just because like 3-4 of them are doesnt mean the actual class itself is. Assassins are very much dominating mid atm and only vladmir, tf and zoe are actually good there.

SSShutTheDuckUpJul 30, 20181 votes

inb4 sheep ADC mains downvoting lul

IceAYonJul 31, 20181 votes

It kinda of sucks they're downvoting since

the game stats speak for itself and it isn't going to change until crit adcs are back to their level of meta like how it was before the adc changes. (it probably won't change and non-adcs would be the underdog of bot lane)
They can't change it themselves.
I thought I had more and I could make it a list, but like anyone going to see this but you and whoever comments on my comment.

Beatrice fallsJul 29, 20182 votes

They should revert Heimer, his most recent rework is just bs (towers shooting lasers when he hits a skill), it's just too strong and too rewarding

BavalAug 2, 20181 votes

you know he was stronger before right?

and god forbid when he lands a skill he does damage. How dare he.

PopperofskiJul 30, 20182 votes

https://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=ADC&sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend

wrong wrong and adc isnt bad its finally balanced but they just need to FUCKING NERF KEYSTONES, Graves Quinn and Talon

SpecterVonBarenJul 30, 20182 votes

You think Heimer and Swain is bad? Try Fiddle and Swain.

Int Like RickonJul 30, 20182 votes

The issue with all of this is tanks being super weak right now. If you play Heimer in the past, you needed to win early, or everybody out scales/out tanks your damage. Now nobody is playing the beefcakes so the mage poke lanes are going to do what they do normally, which is win early, but not get shut down late.

RanmaruJul 30, 20181 votes

But heimer isnt good anywhere else though that's the problem swain is mediocre mid lane, Heimier top has the 2nd lowest pickrate in the entire game might as well as remove him if we nerf him without compensating him