Zyra's passive feels unrewarding. If she plays well she draws no benefit from it. If she plays bad it has the poential to get revenge - but considering the long delay and the mobility of most champion these days it's not only difficult to hit, but deals horribly low damage. Karthus and Sion passive (after the Sion buff) have so much more damage potential, they feel much more impactful.
MrBuffington7 votesI never liked Zyra's (or Kog'Maw's, for that matter) passive, since you're a squishy-long-range-back-line damage dealer; even if you die (which you're trying not to, so you're pretty much playing without a passive for much of the game. At least Sion and arguably Karthus want to get into the middle of a fight to deal the most damage they can, and dying actually has some benefit; Sion, hopefully after buffs, is dealing a lot of damage, and Karthus has the ability to safely channel his ult and deal tons of damage. Kog and Zyra is just a consolation prize for dying) it's hard for you to actually affect the front line of a fight.
JustMyBassCannon5 votesThe justification that Riot gave for both of those passives was the fact that their kits came out very strong without actually having an innate like other champions.
Kinda flimsy though, since (as you mentioned) they're back-row champs most of the time, making it harder for them to make use of said passives.
Jungle Lux God5 votesAfter several games on Sion and one or two games on Zyra, I feel like Zyra's is actually a lot more impactful. With Sion, your opponent can just CC you and you are useless during your passive, while Zyra's passive can be used effectively regardless of whether or not your opponents can kite and CC you, assuming they don't get out of range of the passive. Also, Zyra's passive deals true damage, meaning it's always going to deal good damage, while Sion's passive only lets him auto attack, meaning he deals physical damage and can therefore be built against, giving Zyra much more targets to actually be usable against.
In my recent games on Sion and the one game I played Zyra, I think I got as many kills off of Sion's passive as I got off of Zyra's passive, despite playing 4-5 extra games on the new Sion.
I think the idea behind Zyra's passive (and Kog'maw's passive by association) is that you are a squishy, immobile mage (or marksman), and you are probably going to die at least one or two times in the game, despite your best efforts not to die. If you play well in these situations but still die, you still have a chance of getting a retribution kill (or two with the AoE that Zyra has).
Tempered Salute3 votesI've also seen many Sions get doubles with his ultimate. It really depends on the situation. I think a huge problem is that Zyra is a mage and if she dies it's usually quickly so the enemy can move away, or you deal no damage, or it's way too late to be beneficial. When Sion dies his roll as a meat bag still is effective and he causes players to either burn cc, run away, or die. You don't have to even run from Zyra, you can just dodge one projectile.
TeemoHunter13371 votesI've also seen many Sions get doubles with his ultimate. It really depends on the situation. I think a huge problem is that Zyra is a mage and if she dies it's usually quickly so the enemy can move away, or you deal no damage, or it's way too late to be beneficial. When Sion dies his roll as a meat bag still is effective and he causes players to either burn cc, run away, or die. You don't have to even run from Zyra, you can just dodge one projectile.
was this a lvl 5 game where everyone bought 6 boots?
when u get higher in ranking. sion does absolutely nothing in his passive form. while zyra can at least damage or kill.
Jamnon2 votesBoots dont stack. If an enemy team focuses on you as Sion, you are doing your job, which is to tank.
Tempered Salute1 votesNOPE. It was spectating diamond matches (before his changes, granted). I saw him get doubles with his passive on several occasions. Perhaps most people just don't play him right.
AHeroNamedHawke5 votesSion's passive got nerfed and is even worse actually
Kowe The Ewok4 votesSuggestion: New passive: Rise of Thorns Upon killing an enemy champion Zyra spawns a Thorn Spitter splitter at its location. Upon getting an assist Zyra receives a seed.
Drakexionyx1 votesSuggestion: New passive: Rise of Thorns Upon killing an enemy champion Zyra spawns a Thorn Spitter splitter at its location. Upon getting an assist Zyra receives a seed.
The first part of that passive is too OP. Simply recovering seeds on Kill or Assist is good enough and would work wonderfully, so long as she is still held to her 4 seeds/plants planted maximum.
An alternative name I thought of could be "Seed Of Destruction"
TeemoHunter13373 voteszyra passive>sion passive
i rather have a huge insta true damage after death than to revive after 3 seconds and deal nothing.
zyra passive is fine the way it is. if u are doing well then ur passive is basically ur back up. and if u are doing bad then u can use passive to get some kills back.
stop complaining about things with bad reasonings. it makes u look bad.
i could go on and give different examples of champs who have no use for some of their abilities when they are winning too, but i rather not waste my time.
Kowe The Ewok1 voteszyra passive>sion passive
i rather have a huge insta true damage after death than to revive after 3 seconds and deal nothing.
zyra passive is fine the way it is. if u are doing well then ur passive is basically ur back up. and if u are doing bad then u can use passive to get some kills back.
stop complaining about things with bad reasonings. it makes u look bad.
i could go on and give different examples of champs who have no use for some of their abilities when they are winning too, but i rather not waste my time.
BEEEP.
Sion passive has no delay anymore. Zyra's shot actually has a relatively big delay.
TeemoHunter13371 voteszyra passive>sion passive
i rather have a huge insta true damage after death than to revive after 3 seconds and deal nothing.
zyra passive is fine the way it is. if u are doing well then ur passive is basically ur back up. and if u are doing bad then u can use passive to get some kills back.
stop complaining about things with bad reasonings. it makes u look bad.
i could go on and give different examples of champs who have no use for some of their abilities when they are winning too, but i rather not waste my time.
BEEEP.
Sion passive has no delay anymore. Zyra's shot actually has a relatively big delay.
doesnt matter.
anyone that says sion passive is "impactful" is wrong.
and zyra passive does not have a delay.
as soon as i die i point towards and spam a button and it shoots immediately.
at least its faster than sions.
im not going to argue about delays and stuff though.
what i know for sure is that zyra passive>sion passive. zyras passive is more impactful and BETTER.
the only thing u can compare sions passive with would be kog maws. and even then id still pick kog maws.
WeG4 votesas soon as i die i point towards and spam a button and it shoots immediately.
There's definitely a terrible delay on Zyra's passive, its unresponsive as can be. You even said it, you have to spam a button and it shoots immediately. That makes no sense. If it shot immediately, you wouldn't have to spam a button, you would press it one time.
TeemoHunter13371 votesas soon as i die i point towards and spam a button and it shoots immediately.
There's definitely a terrible delay on Zyra's passive, its unresponsive as can be. You even said it, you have to spam a button and it shoots immediately. That makes no sense. If it shot immediately, you wouldn't have to spam a button, you would press it one time.
yep.
and i agree with u.
but it doesnt take away my main argument that zyras passive>sions passive
zyras passive can actually land a kill/ hurt someone while sion is just makes the enemies run away. thats all
and my other main argument is that zyras passive is more impactful than sions passive even with the delay.
and i still stand by it.
Tempered Salute1 votesIf you bring up an argument to counter an argument then retract it in such away, it removes all credibility from yourself.
TeemoHunter13371 votesIf you bring up an argument to counter an argument then retract it in such away, it removes all credibility from yourself.
i didnt retract anything?
this is my argument, and ill give the title for it.
Zyra passive>Sion passive
Zyra's passive is true damage and higher damage the more she lvls up.
Zyra's passive is easier to hit than Sions passive (prove me wrong play an aram match with me and see if u can actually hit me with sions passive)
Zyra does not get CCed in her passive form and can hit multiple targets
Sions passive is unreliable
Sion can get cced or dies naturally before he even tries to do something in his passive
Sion does not do damage unless he can actually stick to someone in his passive form.
honestly i have not found any good pros for sions passive, maybe he can take 1-2 minions for extra gold before he dies? i guess
now u tell me. which passive is better?
Drakexionyx4 votesI'm going to put this "Zyra vs Sion" thing to bed.
Okay, firstly, @TeemoHunter1337 you are correct in that Zyra's passive does have greater damage potential than Sion's. The original poster is mistaken in that regard, no doubt and I agree with you on that basis.
@Kowe_The_Ewok: The example of Sion's passive to Zyra's should never have been made comparative, in terms of damage and kill potential, but rather contrasting - as in how Sion's passive compliments his kit and his role in League, while Zyra's however, doesn't synergize with her role at all.
's passive forces the enemy to kite back from him or use cc on him. As a tank and not a sustained damage/burst mage, that's a win for him. Sure it does way less damage than Zyra's and definitely gets less kills, but if even one single cool down is blown on Sion after he's already dead, that is hugely impactful and serves the role he is meant to fulfill. Sure if Sion had Zyra's passive he would get more kills with it, but it's not about which is better as an individual ability. If that were the case then Zyra's wins hands down. However Zyra's passive does not in anyway support her game play, as a passive should (and Sion's does for him).
, simply put, doesn't want to die, and rarely should be in a situation where she does so. She wants to keep putting out sustained damage with plants and burst with her spells. They all have long range and with a Rylai's (which I always build on her whether mid or support) she can kite for days, not to mention some great CC already without it. It takes a particularly obnoxious assassin and an epic fail from my team's peel to blow me up in a fight as the mid laner, if I'm as support and get hard focused the enemy team has forfeited the fight anyway by leaving my carries unmolested. And so for what her role is her passive is VERY unimpactful, she would be better suited to one that supported her game play (and to a lesser extent, for 
too, but that's a whole other subject).
For example (and right off the top of my head), give her bonus damage to a target 'revealed' by her seedlings OR dealing damage to a target 'revealed' prolongs your team's vision of them. Call it "The Happening" if you want the LOL's, or something else. That's why Riot have a champion development and design team though. point is thought they can do a lot better for Zyra.
To summarize: (TL;DR) Comparing them individually, yes, you win, 's is better but that isn't the reason why she should have a different one.
's passive works for his role in the game (to tank enemy abilities for his team and force them to relocate);
's does not for her role (to prolong her ability to deal repeated damage with plants while ccing the enemy).
Tempered Salute1 votessomeone: That makes no sense. If it shot immediately, you wouldn't have to spam a button, you would press it one time.
you: yep.
and i agree with u.
That's a retraction. Your credibility is gone.
Tempered Salute1 votessomeone: That makes no sense. If it shot immediately, you wouldn't have to spam a button, you would press it one time.
you: yep.
and i agree with u.
That's a retraction. Your credibility is gone.
P.S. Sions passive is unreliable
HOW IS IT LESS RELIABLE THAN ZYRAS?! At least Sion can wall, you wiff Zyras, you get NOTHING. NOTHING.
Lord Dusteon3 votesYeah, Zyra's passive has both turning speed AND firing delay and projectile delay, which makes it extremely unresponsive to use. Seriously, try landing that against anyone with a jump or boots who isn't CCed.
Oleandervine2 votesI don't understand people's disdain for her passive. It's not bad at all, and her kit runs extremely well without it. It does tend to force opponents to act reactively once she dies, as weakened foes will be at risk of her shooting them and landing a kill. That, and despite what people say, it is a ranged attack, so it meshes well with the fact that she sits at a range most of the time.
Drakexionyx1 votesI don't understand people's disdain for her passive. It's not bad at all, and her kit runs extremely well without it. It does tend to force opponents to act reactively once she dies, as weakened foes will be at risk of her shooting them and landing a kill. That, and despite what people say, it is a ranged attack, so it meshes well with the fact that she sits at a range most of the time.
That's EXACTLY the point. Her Kit does run without it. in fact I have had many games where I simply don't use it at all. Do you know what the concept of 'synergy' is? In the case of LOL champion design it is how all the facets of the champion work together to achieve that aspect of the game the champion excels at, and provides a trade off in exposing a weakness for other to counter-play (or in the case of Yasuo, no weaknesses at all, but that's another matter).
For Zyra, she is a ranged AOE caster with a lot of DPS and Zone control potential with her plants and CC. She does not have any ability which increases her tankiness or mobility - that is her strategic trade off/weakness. All of her abilities instead provide CDR, CC and AOE to increase her continuous damage output and try to keep enemies at range. However if someone does get close, then she is extremely vulnerable. Her Passive does not fit or reward this play at all, it only acts as a cheap effect to try and get a revenge kill, which is completely unbefitting her play-style and role. Her Passive needs only be as simple as someone else said - returning seeds on kill or assist, and perhaps reducing the CD on her next seed by a little for every creep kill as well.
The fact that her current passive is a range attack does not make it mesh well with her by default. As the core of her play-style revolves around denying the enemy position; the narrow, slow and delayed projectile her 'Rise of the Thorns' provides does not in anyway reinforce this. it is in fact easier to dodge it the closer you are to Zyra, because of the awful turn speed on her death plant. You only ever hit enemies who are already CC'd or don't know how to dodge/aren't expecting it. Most of the kills I've ever gotten with her passive came when I waited anf people forgot the passive was even there. In higher levels of play, this practically never happens. A passive that only works against unskilled or players unfamiliar with Zyra still does not make it a good one for her.
Hopefully this explains why many of the community treat her passive with such disdain.
Quepha2 votesIf she plays well she draws no benefit from it. If she plays bad it has the poential to get revenge
that's good, there should be more abilities like this in the game. like 95% of abilities in the game give you far more options when you're ahead and total shit with nothing you can do to get back when you fall behind.
Wyrmblade1 votesThere is no greater feeling on the planet than getting a triple kill with that passive though
Drakexionyx1 votesFinishing off a pentakill with it in a double ace team fight must come pretty close. That great feeling however, doesn't make it a great passive on Zyra. =(
Drunk Rummate1 votesidk i find the passive to be extremely useful in really close games
a bunch of true damage on top of any plants you leave behind when you die can really turn the tide of a fight.
UPfreely1 votesthe only death passive thats in a good spot right now is karthus and thats because he pretty much dies on purpose
OyddAWqJ5r1 votesWhen Zyra is ahead it makes the threat from killing her even greater as her passive will deal more damage.
Cindikle1 votesZyra's kit is very strong. What other passive would you give her?
She has her down sides, dealing with mobility is one. But the power of her kit has to come with down sides.
Killer X 121 votesI have no problem with Zrya's passive. You have tons of damage already in her base kit with retardedly high base damage and proper plant usage. You can build just support items and get 40k damage in any reasonable length game. Her passive allows her to even win fights that she had no place winning, aka she is behind from something like a gank. Also in team fights having piercing true damage is nothing to sneeze at.
Jenex1 voteso-o I actually quite like Zyra's passive. I don't know where you get the feeling it isn't impactful. If I die for my adc in lane from a gank and he/she gets to safety, when I land my passive, I'm pinging the enemies because it's time for the adc to turn the fight around and pick up some kills. Her passive has been immensely useful to me because sometimes you just can't stop a stealthed rengar from jumping on you. As a passive for Zyra specifically, I see its place. She makes you regret cutting the flower, and you are pricked by the thorn.
Drakexionyx1 votesIt has its moments to be sure, yet maybe it's just how I play, but I rarely die as Zyra (because of all the wonderful CC and vision tools she has,) and so I almost NEVER make use of her passive.
You also actually can stop a stealthed Rengar from jumping on you, quite easily in fact... either with an upgraded sweeper (something I always rush no matter what role I'm playing at level 9 with Rengar in the game) and before that by dropping a pink ward, and then simply snaring him (followed by an ult if it's absolutely necessary XD).
Linna Excel1 votesIf her passive was an unkillable plant with automatic ranged AAs for 8 seconds, that'd be different. Maybe even good. But as is, her passive is weak at best.