Boards›Gameplay

"Nasus is OP because he can build full tank and face tank a tower with no minions and take it"

HateDaddy··10 votes·2,431 views

Yeah...he can do that at around 800 bonus damage on his Q+ while needing 4-6 items, including a trinity force. You do realize towers get 200 bonus Armor and MR when there aren't minions around, so you're talking in the neighborhood of 300-350 armor. Nasus won't kill a tower before it kills him unless he's massively farmed, and how many games is Nasus actually getting that kind of farm? In order to get that kind of damage farmed up, you'd literally have to be AFK farming for at least 25-30 minutes. And in that time, Nasus team should've been shit on so hard in 5v4s that his farm doesn't even matter.

This is an unrealistic complaint regarding Nasus because in reality, he's rarely getting this kind of farm. As a Nasus player, I stop focusing on heavy farming around 400 bonus damage because if I continue to do nothing but AFK farm, my team is literally going to lose.

So if the Nasus QQ has gone full circle here when he's not even a viable top laner in competitive play and he's largely just a solo queue stomper (and trynd and Jax are much better split pushers than he is in solo queue), feel free to challenge me on that. Because he's fine as is, if anything I'd like to see some small changes to make him a better team fighter

32 Comments

TeemoJenkins3 votes

People have Nasus' in their games that don't afk farm for the first 40 minutes?

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

People have Nasus' in their games that don't afk farm for the first 40 minutes?

That's a terrible play style and it's greatly exaggerated. Most Nasus players who understand his spikes start dunking their enemy laner by level 8 or so if they're able to farm decently. Then it's just a matter of farming to FH/SV or one CDR item into Trinity and looking to teamfight, or TP flanks which happens between 20-25 minute mark. Anything after that, Nasus' power as a team fighter starts to diminish as carries start completing %pen items and QSS.

Anonagon2 votes

I don't think anyone is actually stupid enough to say that he can 1v1 towers from full

if anything about him is stupid its wither, but he's weak and nerfing wither would nerf his second biggest teamfight contribution (the first being focused down in one second because of the fear of "muh stacks")

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

I don't think anyone is actually stupid enough to say that he can 1v1 towers from full

You'd be surprised

if anything about him is stupid its wither, but he's weak and nerfing wither would nerf his second biggest teamfight contribution (the first being focused down in one second because of the fear of "muh stacks")

Like I said, I'd prefer a change that would remove chain withering once he reaches 40% CDR but gives it more range and gives him an MS Boost. This would make his teamfight better and as a result, a less frustrating split pusher to deal with.

Anonagon1 votes

{quoted}

You'd be surprised

Like I said, I'd prefer a change that would remove chain withering once he reaches 40% CDR but gives it more range and gives him an MS Boost. This would make his teamfight better and as a result, a less frustrating split pusher to deal with.

So basically, wither's slow halved but now steals the ms, cooldown up, range up

sounds dank

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

So basically, wither's slow halved but now steals the ms, cooldown up, range up

sounds dank

Actually, what I'd do is id give it the spirit fire treatment. As it is, withers rank 1 CD is 15 seconds and scales down 1 second per level, spirit fire is 15 seconds at all levels. What I'd do is have wither act the same, maybe even reducing it to 13-14 seconds at all levels and as a result, at 40% CDR Nasus can wither a target every 8-9 seconds as opposed to every 6, killing chain withering which admittedly is a frustrating mechanic to fight. In exchange, increase its range back to 700 and give it MS steal as well. This doesn't diminish his 1v1 power much at all and makes fighting him feel more like an interaction than getting ran over while perma withered and this GREATLY improves his teamfight.

NateKiller2 votes

{quoted}

I don't think anyone is actually stupid enough to say that he can 1v1 towers from full

if anything about him is stupid its wither, but he's weak and nerfing wither would nerf his second biggest teamfight contribution (the first being focused down in one second because of the fear of "muh stacks")

Wither is a shell of it's former glory. It's strength was gutted in half, then hit with reduced ranged. That alone killed his team fight. If anything the Wither needs a buff, not a nerf.

Duke Anax2 votes

You are right he cannot 1v1 towers from full, he can 1v1 base from full.

NateKiller2 votes

While i'm thinking about this.... Why is it everyone likes to hate on Wither? You never hear about any of the other chain CC slows. What about Nunu's snowball(IceBlast)? Never hear it mentioned, not once.

SaltyKracka2 votes

People remember Wither before it got a couple of nerfs, and keep assuming it's the same spell.

...Also because people know not to bother 1v1ing Nunu.

PoisonedPeace3 votes

Because Nunu does nothing but be annoying with Ice Blast. Nasus could actually kill you.

DanLikesBacon1 votes

Lol I've played nunu quite a bit and he can definitely kill people

Dedrius2 votes

The reason people think he is so strong because most YoloQueue teams don't have the synergy to say "Ok we are against a Nasus, we are going to have to try to keep him underfarmed while he is weak, then group up around 15 minutes to punish his team if he continues to farm." That usually doesn't happen. What usually happens is Nasus hits around 500 stacks in 20-25 minutes or so (which most Nasus players can do) then he splits constantly while no one can deal with him because he can chunk with Q then Lifesteal his health back.

The only problem I have with him is his wither. I understand it is his only mechanic to stick to carries but I think it is 1. Too long, 5 seconds is a shit ton of time to be increasingly slowed and it makes it way harder to abuse his weak early game for how hard he scales 2. The attack speed slow makes it impossible for most top laners to trade with him unless you are AP (Rumble, Vlad).

Those are my thoughts on Nasus, he is a SoloQueue hero who capitalizes on the inability of teams to group up early and abuse the fact that he needs to farm up before being strong and I think his E needs to be changed/nerfed.

As a Nasus main I am thinking you will not agree with any nerfs to your main but that is how I feel about him.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

The reason people think he is so strong because most YoloQueue teams don't have the synergy to say "Ok we are against a Nasus, we are going to have to try to keep him underfarmed while he is weak, then group up around 15 minutes to punish his team if he continues to farm." That usually doesn't happen. What usually happens is Nasus hits around 500 stacks in 20-25 minutes or so (which most Nasus players can do) then he splits constantly while no one can deal with him because he can chunk with Q then Lifesteal his health back.

This is totally dependent on the match up he's in, if his lane receives jungle attention (it will), how his team is doing, etc. You'd be right if Nasus was winning games in the area of 57%+, but he's not. As I stated, his early game sustain isn't even that great. He's going to sustain more off of pots + regen. Split pushing in solo queue is also very hard to work, most of the time what happens is Nasus splits and his team just gets engaged in 5v4 and dies. So while the argument of him just afking and split pushing and teams don't have the coordination to deal with it does hold water, the opposite is equally true that teams don't know how to make the most of his split push by keeping distance, wave clearing etc - and that's assuming they have a comp that CAN do that. With the addition of righteous glory, hard engage can be a thing on any comp, wave clear can't be.

The only problem I have with him is his wither. I understand it is his only mechanic to stick to carries but I think it is 1. Too long, 5 seconds is a shit ton of time to be increasingly slowed and it makes it way harder to abuse his weak early game for how hard he scales 2. The attack speed slow makes it impossible for most top laners to trade with him unless you are AP (Rumble, Vlad).

Wither doesn't make it impossible to trade with him. It has a 15 second cool down at level 1, and Nasus is typically only going to have 1 point into at until level 7 or 8. It also cost 80 mana at level 1, and he has the worst mana pool of any champion in the game. 2 usages of wither early on will have him completely out of mana. He is a decent reactive trader pre 6 but overall his capacity to trade in general is shit until he gets level and farm. And rank 1 wither is a pretty weak slow overall. I also addressed what I'd do to change wither as well.

Those are my thoughts on Nasus, he is a SoloQueue hero who capitalizes on the inability of teams to group up early and abuse the fact that he needs to farm up before being strong and I think his E needs to be changed/nerfed.

His e is fine as is. I agree it has some hidden power but you also have the power to simply walk out of it.

As a Nasus main I am thinking you will not agree with any nerfs to your main but that is how I feel about him.

That's because there isn't any need to nerf a champion who currently doesn't require nerfs and isn't even viable outside of solo queue. I would love to see changes that help him while getting rid of some of his frustrating gameplay patterns but I'm not endorsing a nerf on a champion that doesn't need it.

Dedrius1 votes

{quoted}

This is totally dependent on the match up he's in, if his lane receives jungle attention (it will), how his team is doing, etc. You'd be right if Nasus was winning games in the area of 57%+, but he's not. As I stated, his early game sustain isn't even that great. He's going to sustain more off of pots + regen. Split pushing in solo queue is also very hard to work, most of the time what happens is Nasus splits and his team just gets engaged in 5v4 and dies. So while the argument of him just afking and split pushing and teams don't have the coordination to deal with it does hold water, the opposite is equally true that teams don't know how to make the most of his split push by keeping distance, wave clearing etc - and that's assuming they have a comp that CAN do that. With the addition of righteous glory, hard engage can be a thing on any comp, wave clear can't be.

I could agree with most of that but I feel it is easier for a team to defend a tower and waveclear than it is for a team to group up and push as 5 knowing there is someone knocking down towers in the side lanes. That creates the problem where players get nervous about their pushing power compared to Nasus and start to recall wasting their push while Nasus still did his job.

Wither doesn't make it impossible to trade with him. It has a 15 second cool down at level 1, and Nasus is typically only going to have 1 point into at until level 7 or 8. It also cost 80 mana at level 1, and he has the worst mana pool of any champion in the game. 2 usages of wither early on will have him completely out of mana. He is a decent reactive trader pre 6 but overall his capacity to trade in general is shit until he gets level and farm. And rank 1 wither is a pretty weak slow overall. I also addressed what I'd do to change wither as well.

His mana at level 1 is around 320 (which is in the middle of the pack in comparison to other champions not the worst) so he can wither 4 times without any mana regen or flask taken into account at level 1, which he wouldn't need to do because there are not many top laners that would be able to trade that much early without hurting their own mana pool possibly more-so. He is like you said a good reactive trader but has shitty trade in general until he gets farm and levels but he doesn't really want to trade other than withering the enemy laner so he can walk away and go back to farming until he is strong enough to actually trade.

His e is fine as is. I agree it has some hidden power but you also have the power to simply walk out of it.

I agree you can walk out of it, but early on when Nasus is weak you don't want to walk out of it, you want to try to engage on him and force trades and being withered makes that pretty much impossible. When Nasus actually feels he is strong enough to trade with you (lets say around levels 8-10) you can't really just walk out of it, 5 seconds is a Long time to be slowed and have your attack speed slowed.

That's because there isn't any need to nerf a champion who currently doesn't require nerfs and isn't even viable outside of solo queue. I would love to see changes that help him while getting rid of some of his frustrating gameplay patterns but I'm not endorsing a nerf on a champion that doesn't need it.

I can definitely agree with this point, I don't see any reason to nerf Nasus just because he is strong in SoloQueue but I would like to see his power shifted from AFK farming and split pushing to a more interactive champion with perhaps power shifted to his teamfight.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

I could agree with most of that but I feel it is easier for a team to defend a tower and waveclear than it is for a team to group up and push as 5 knowing there is someone knocking down towers in the side lanes. That creates the problem where players get nervous about their pushing power compared to Nasus and start to recall wasting their push while Nasus still did his job.

In lower elo that might be true, but higher elo will know what a 5 man pushing squad is capable of.

His mana at level 1 is around 320 (which is in the middle of the pack in comparison to other champions not the worst) so he can wither 4 times without any mana regen or flask taken into account at level 1, which he wouldn't need to do because there are not many top laners that would be able to trade that much early without hurting their own mana pool possibly more-so. He is like you said a good reactive trader but has shitty trade in general until he gets farm and levels but he doesn't really want to trade other than withering the enemy laner so he can walk away and go back to farming until he is strong enough to actually trade.

Then walk away from him while withered and abuse the shit out of him as both his E and W are down for 15 seconds after this. It's not like he can perma wither you and constantly use it as a defense tool in early lane phase, he can't. It's not as simple as wither opponent then farm, acquire Ws. That's not how lane phase works for any champion, much less Nasus.

I agree you can walk out of it, but early on when Nasus is weak you don't want to walk out of it, you want to try to engage on him and force trades and being withered makes that pretty much impossible. When Nasus actually feels he is strong enough to trade with you (lets say around levels 8-10) you can't really just walk out of it, 5 seconds is a Long time to be slowed and have your attack speed slowed.

Again, 15 second cooldowns and huge mana costs on both W/E, the combined mana cost of this at level 1 alone is 155 (plus Q is additional 20). Walk away from his when withered, then engage on him/zone when it's down. If he doesn't interact while wither is on cooldown and he's spammed E, he has broken his freeze and you can freeze on him. He's be denying himself so hard with this method.

I can definitely agree with this point, I don't see any reason to nerf Nasus just because he is strong in SoloQueue but I would like to see his power shifted from AFK farming and split pushing to a more interactive champion with perhaps power shifted to his teamfight.

We agree 100% on this. I want him to be a better teamfighter and less of a gimmicky split pusher, not to mention Jax and Trynd are much better at it.

NateKiller1 votes

{quoted} The only problem I have with him is his wither. I understand it is his only mechanic to stick to carries but I think it is 1. Too long, 5 seconds is a shit ton of time to be increasingly slowed and it makes it way harder to abuse his weak early game for how hard he scales 2. The attack speed slow makes it impossible for most top laners to trade with him unless you are AP (Rumble, Vlad).

So much hyperbole it's hard to respond. If anything you've said in this paragraph were true he'd not only have a higher win rate, but also played competitively on some level. What's most glaring is that you don't understand how CC is integrated in champion kits. If you compare Nasus' Wither straight up you'll find it's on par with any other ability. This is especially true for a champion that's immobile.

Additionally, players don't use Wither in lane for trading. Especially in the early game as you describe. He'd be out of mana and defenseless. If you played Nasus you'd know that. The only way he could actually make sustained trades using Wither would be with Blue, and even then it'd be a struggle.

Dunkrius2g1 votes

That name doe...

item 3070 Darius item 3070

Dunkrius2g1 votes

People might say that there are mainly 4 reasons why he is op.

1: Free lifesteal.

2: 40 flat armor pen (from his Spirit Fire), so when you penetrate the ADC, you penetrate her hard.

3: Wither. He can perma slow you if he has 40% CDR (which he will have once he completes a major item item 3110 and from masteries and runes. The only stupid part is the attack speed reduction. Other than that, it is okay.

4: Ult dealing maximum health item 3070 Renekton item 3070

NateKiller2 votes

{quoted} The only stupid part is the attack speed reduction. Other than that, it is okay.

So you'd be ok with a bruiser with no gap closer, and no other form of damage reduction to just walk into range of damage? Ok.... Well, you better start looking at every other bruiser then because there's way worse things than Nasus' pitifully nerfed AS slow.

Dunkrius2g1 votes

People might say that there are mainly 4 reasons why he is op.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

People might say that there are mainly 4 reasons why he is op.

1: Free lifesteal.

It's his passive, it's not free. And it's sustain isn't even that great until about level 7 with some farm. He's going to sustain way more from HP pots and regen from masteries + d-shield.

2: 40 flat armor pen (from his Spirit Fire), so when you penetrate the ADC, you penetrate him hard.

How is Nasus getting in range of a carry at this stage in the game? Carries don't exactly stack armor, so while the E armor reduction helps, it's irrelevant in this case because if Nasus has somehow gotten on top of a ranged carry in a teamfight, they're dead either way. The flat armor reduction doesn't even matter at this point.

3: Wither. He can perma slow you if he has 40% CDR (which he will have once he completes a major item item 3110 and from masteries and runes. The only stupid part is the attack speed reduction. Other than that, it is okay.

Yes, I mentioned this and I admit it IS a frustrating mechanic to play against. But as it stands, it's the only way he can stick to anything at all, otherwise he'd be getting kited without being able to do anything about it. See my proposed change that address this and gives him strengths in other areas.

4: Ult dealing maximum health item 3070 Renekton item 3070

I didn't realize Nasus was a lane bully that literally dominated every melee champion in lane to the point they're irrelevant (minus Darius). Please don't make this comparison, it's pretty stupid to do so.

Dunkrius2g1 votes

Im just comparing their ults. Nothing else. One deals maximum healthNasus while one deals flat damageRenekton .

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

Im just comparing their ults. Nothing else.

You can't just compare their ults, their ults are relative to their kits. Thus, to make this comparison, you have to compare their kits. If Renekton was a farm oriented scaling late game champion with a weaker early game, I'd agree. Obviously that isn't the case.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

Im just comparing their ults. Nothing else. One deals maximum health while one deals flat damage.

Renee tons usually is better because Nass has a damage cap and seldom builds APin sr

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o6AHRTT3,comment-id=0003000100000001,timestamp=2015-07-01T22:38:13.708+0000)

Renee tons usually is better because Nass has a damage cap and seldom builds APin sr

Yeah if i recall correctly, I remember a thread on old GD that did the math and Renektons ult late game will actually do more damage than Nasus' (unless we are talking AP Nasus here). Nasus' will do more damage mid game tho

insaiyanbacca2 votes

{quoted}

People might say that there are mainly 4 reasons why he is op.

2: 40 flat armor pen (from his Spirit Fire), so when you penetrate the ADC, you penetrate him hard.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

khorney1 votes

yet all you need to kill nasus is someone with high ad attack like rengar and last whisper and if your up to it get black cleaver and you will kill nasus faster then he can kill you even with his high hp and armor ive done it many many times

IAMS4T4N1 votes

people wanting nasus buffs lmao

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

people wanting nasus buffs lmao

Who said anything about buffs

MigYalle1 votes

OH! I LOVE 1v1'ing towers as Nasus. Get trinity, A frozen heart, and usually I only need 3-400 cs on my Q to take down the first 2 towers, The inhibtors turrets are impossible though lol

DanLikesBacon1 votes

Dont worry HateDaddy I don't think Nasus is overpowered. He's perfectly balanced out of lane because of how easy it is to kite Nasus. In lane he can be very overwhelming if he's remotely ahead, but if the opposing team has any sort of hard cc and can chain it Nasus quickly becomes useless.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by HateDaddy

Permaslow passive, point and click harass that can crit, AOE global ult, huge heal + cleanse
Gameplay154 comments
327
votes
Yo roit, now that we have a new SR map that's been updated
Maps & Modes86 comments
322
votes
After 5 years of League, I am calling it quits at the end of the season.
Gameplay333 comments
279
votes
We are almost at season 6 and there are still champs released in season 2 that cost 6300 IP.
Gameplay112 comments
261
votes
Daily reminder that max % HP true damage is loaded with counterplay and counter builds.
Gameplay194 comments
244
votes
I don't understand people on this board
Gameplay183 comments
232
votes