People are saying she's weak, but she's not. Actual Zoe mains (not fairweather sheeple) are doing fine with her, and she isn't overbearing anymore.
So just ignore the whiners and leave her alone. You said yourself she's supposed to be a high skill champ.
Ok sure but why2 votesHigh skill champ with an easy-to-land 3-second cc
Onotori2 votesEasy to dodge, too. So who's really at fault if they get hit by it?
Dead flag blues3 votes[{quoted}](name=Ok sure but why,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o4TWAxc3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-17T09:43:04.356+0000)
High skill champ with an easy-to-land 3-second cc
Because right-clicking is way harder [slayer-jinx-catface]
Ok sure but why1 votesYeah, because if you're not 
, they can easily right-click back
PeachyPosterior2 votes[{quoted}](name=Ok sure but why,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o4TWAxc3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-17T09:43:04.356+0000)
High skill champ with an easy-to-land 3-second cc
Her Sleepy trouble bubbly is easy to avoid if you're laning against her. And now since 8.4 you can cleanse it (or even block it with a sheild). It's a lot harder to actually get a champ to fall asleep now and is still a skillshot.
Anomander1 votesOMG you mean that you can treat it like every other cc in the game now?
Malix Farwin2 votesOMG you mean that you can treat it like every other cc in the game now?
As far as i can understand, no other CC in the game breaks on damage. If you are willing to remove that component of it then sure lets treat it like any more cc in the game.
vgamedude1 votesShe's weak and her wave clear with Q is literally disgusting now.
Onotori3 votesHer waveclear is supposed to be weaker than other mages -- even then, she's still able to clear perfectly fine if you get a long range (no ult needed) Q and then auto the casters afterwards. Once you get an item or two you can one shot the caster wave and two shot the melee wave.
And she's nowhere near weak. I regularly go like 10/1 or better.
I know you're going to ask for my op.gg, so here. Ignoring the winrate (since Zoe never could carry, being so squishy and immobile), look at my stats each game. That's not a "weak" champ. And any game I die a lot, those are all late game, once the enemy team is massively fed by my genius teammates. Early game I'm usually destroying people. ^^
vgamedude1 votesShe is heavily below average for mid lane Im not sure what it takes for you to consider a champion weak.
Onotori2 votesShe is what you call a high skill floor champ, similar to (supposedly) Lee, Vayne, Riven, Yas, etc. That means that newer Zoe players won't do very well, while more experienced ones will do a lot better.
As I said, Zoe mains are doing fine.
vgamedude1 votesyou keep saying that, but by what metric? How do you know they are? Statistically she was in line before so why gut and change a champion to solve some problem that isn't even there? She is not good right now and by every measure she is actually weak.
Also vayne hahahaha. Riven and vayne also sport a higher win rate than zoe does, hell even yasuo does.
PeachyPosterior2 votesyou keep saying that, but by what metric? How do you know they are? Statistically she was in line before so why gut and change a champion to solve some problem that isn't even there? She is not good right now and by every measure she is actually weak.
Also vayne hahahaha. Riven and vayne also sport a higher win rate than zoe does, hell even yasuo does.
You circled the wrong graph. Click here and look at her current Win Rate % By Patch. 8.4 she was gutted as expected, 8.5 she's back up there AND the community as a whole is happy with her playstyle.
Her stats for mid as per champion.gg is a 47.92% win rate. Which is pretty good.
Here's another page that says her win rate is 52% right now.
Lets also not forget Zoe support with a supposed 49.22% win rate. And patch 8.5 is what gave them a fairly large boost.
Here's another page saying she has a 48.9% win rate. According to their graphs her popularity has gone down significantly, as well as her ban rate, and her win rate has gone up greatly.
She honestly is in a good spot. For both mid and support. Riot truly listened to both sides of the community on this one and made changes so everyone could feel better about playing as her and against her.
vgamedude1 votesYeah her winrate per patch looks pretty horrible right now on champ gg, what you linked me. I circled the right graph because people are saying she's good once shes "mastered" and played by mains, I'm asking where they get that from.
47.92 is not pretty good, 48.9 is closer but that's gold plus, and also the one where she's at 52 is pro builds which is super narrow.
PeachyPosterior1 votesYeah her winrate per patch looks pretty horrible right now on champ gg, what you linked me. I circled the right graph because people are saying she's good once shes "mastered" and played by mains, I'm asking where they get that from.
47.92 is not pretty good, 48.9 is closer but that's gold plus, and also the one where she's at 52 is pro builds which is super narrow.
You circled: Win Rate % by Games Played (Current Season Ranked Experience) Directly below that is a pie chart: Current Season Ranked Games 1-50
So the chart going ONLY off of ranked games have had people playing her in less than 50 ranked games. You can hardly say she's been mastered by those players.
So no, that wasn't the correct chart to be looking at to determine how she's doing in game; if you want to be basing your opinion off of charts only and not feedback from the community as well.
She's doing great right now. Would she be fun with more power? Of course! Should she get more power? No. Instead other champs should get focused on being brought to a more balanced state.
vgamedude1 votesEXACTLY so saying she is being played very well by people who have "mastered" her is complete BS since there is no data for that at all right?
PeachyPosterior1 votesEXACTLY so saying she is being played very well by people who have "mastered" her is complete BS since there is no data for that at all right?
No, not exactly. That is only statistics for ranked games. Plenty of Zoe mains who have their M7 on her and bunches of master points play her on normals. So you can't say she's not in a good spot because there isn't enough data for her in the ranked games.
Looking at her by patch though you can match her win rate to her kit changes. Compare that to player feedback and right now she's the most balanced she has ever been.
vgamedude1 votesNo, not exactly. That is only statistics for ranked games. Plenty of Zoe mains who have their M7 on her and bunches of master points play her on normals. So you can't say she's not in a good spot because there isn't enough data for her in the ranked games.
Looking at her by patch though you can match her win rate to her kit changes. Compare that to player feedback and right now she's the most balanced she has ever been.
Where is this data you keep saying exists? I don't see it anywhere, and suddenly normals stats matter?
PeachyPosterior1 votesWhere is this data you keep saying exists? I don't see it anywhere, and suddenly normals stats matter?
Look back up in the thread and click all the sources I linked. ^Make sure you're looking at the proper graphs/
And as if you think ranked is the only thing that matters in this game. [sg-miss-fortune]
Puh-lease. It's only for people who have enough time to play this game competitively. There's a grand majority of players who only play normals because it's fun and a hell of a lot less toxic than ranked. Hell I've seen some unranked player outplay some gold+ peeps.
Riot tries to bring balance to high elo and low elo. For those who are way up there in ranked or don't bother with it at all. So yeah, of course normals stats matter.
vgamedude1 votesLook back up in the thread and click all the sources I linked. ^Make sure you're looking at the proper graphs/
And as if you think ranked is the only thing that matters in this game. [sg-miss-fortune]
Puh-lease. It's only for people who have enough time to play this game competitively. There's a grand majority of players who only play normals because it's fun and a hell of a lot less toxic than ranked. Hell I've seen some unranked player outplay some gold+ peeps.
Riot tries to bring balance to high elo and low elo. For those who are way up there in ranked or don't bother with it at all. So yeah, of course normals stats matter.
You saying ranked isn't the only thing that matters and then talk about elo. Dude you can't look at stats in normals because its just that, normals. People fuck around, pick weird things etc. you cant judge based on that at all.
What are you talking about? I don't see any sources you linked that show people that have "mastered" her are op.
PeachyPosterior1 votesYou saying ranked isn't the only thing that matters and then talk about elo. Dude you can't look at stats in normals because its just that, normals. People fuck around, pick weird things etc. you cant judge based on that at all.
What are you talking about? I don't see any sources you linked that show people that have "mastered" her are op.
People fuck around in ranked as much as they do in norms so your argument is invalid.
And she's not OP. She's well balanced right now. If you're having difficulties maybe you should go back to some bot games to really learn how and when to use her kit. The point is she's in a good spot right now. There's no need to go changing things around.
vgamedude1 votesPeople fuck around in ranked as much as they do in norms so your argument is invalid.
And she's not OP. She's well balanced right now. If you're having difficulties maybe you should go back to some bot games to really learn how and when to use her kit. The point is she's in a good spot right now. There's no need to go changing things around.
You really expect me to believe people fuck around in ranked as much as normals? Give me a break and spare the condescending bot match BS, the fact shes overlooked in pro play so much now compared to her before shows how weak she is compared to her previous state. I don't see any need playing her when other mid laners do what she does much better.
Can't believe you're trying to pass off normal stats as meaning anything.
ViciousSummoner1 votesIt would be a bad thing if Rito "touched" Zoe. https://ci.memecdn.com/10760951.jpg
Jokes aside she's in a relatively good state now that they figured out that her damage wasn't the problem just her procs.
PeachyPosterior1 votes@OP you're absolutely right. Zoe is not weak right now. She's fairly balanced I would say.
Yes she feels weak compared to her release, but she was released with too much power. Not just in her ability damage but in how much she could be a bully in lane.
You can now counter her drowsy, it's not as easy for her to roam, she has waveclear but she can't keep her minons butted up to the enemy tower anymore, and IF she lands her skillshots you're still in for a whole lot of damage. If you miss everything is up again in 10 seconds anyway.
She's meant to be a difficult to master champion. But also a high damage burst mage. How well you do with her is reliant on whether or not you can land her skill shots and get the timings right.
Malix Farwin1 votesHey, another Zoe main here. No one is saying she is weak and no one is saying she is too strong. She is all around properly balanced. Unlikely seeing any more changes to her for the time being. Why was this thread made?
[{quoted}](name=Ok sure but why,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o4TWAxc3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-17T09:43:04.356+0000)
High skill champ with an easy-to-land 3-second cc
Lets ignore the fact that it has a telegraphed windup and address the fact that you do not even know the duration of it.
