"Here, have some feeders, absolute idiots, some people with a <30% winrate, and one tricks who were autofilled, while the enemy team is made up of premades and people on win streaks!"
... remind me why the fuck we have promos in the first place. 80% a coin toss, 19% team comp, 1% individual skill. What does that prove, exactly?
And then try to tell me that the system doesn't try its hardest to keep you at 50%. I'd love for you to prove that it's just a coincidence.
Agent Corgi54 votes"You're in your Promos? It'd be a real shame if someone...fed the enemy team." https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.524290775.8088/flat,1000x1000,075,f.u2.jpg
Spartan DMG 025 votesI just don’t tell anyone that I’m in my promos :) Sometimes it’s helpful to tell people that you’re in your promos but 99% of the time it only makes it worse :/
Paintchip27 votesMy favorite is right after load screen, team mate says ‘good luck in promos”, then proceeds to int or afk roam while “lol” in chat whole match. Guess who riot will punish first if you get annoyed. I’ll give you a hint, it is NOT the troll ruining the match.
Votable Jester1 votesWell the chat still isn't exact proof that they were trolling, though if they had multiple tears or boots or something, I'd hope Riot would punish them.
Or if their deaths were around equal to the length of the game in minutes (especially with minimal damage to champs).
Paintchip6 votesAnd thank you for making the point about the failed system. It only ques to chat, NOT (except very rarely) actions that actually ruin the game play.
Votable Jester2 votesWell yeah, that's the way it is. It's a lot easier to keep track of chat than everything else. Even if they could see someone doing stupid stuff, there is a slim possibility that the person is just bad, having a bad day, etc.
I hate trolls as much as the next guy (maybe more as I play through the game to report them at the end rather than dodge for them), but I wouldn't want innocent people being punished for just being bad. It would also look bad on Riot and potentially lose them a ton of players (many may just decide to quit rather than fight the punishment/ban).
SoryInAdvance1 votescould very easily look at the number of deaths and location on the map of those deaths to see if they were just running it down mid. If theres 1 death per 2 minutes in the same lane, somethings up.
Ariel the Cruel1 votesIn slightly less extreme examples, you have snowballed top-lane stereotypes. Where the <We'll say Pantheon> gets a lead, then is able to just tower dive his opponent into oblivion. The only options at that point are to. . .
a) Go to lane and scratch up what little CS you can, knowing that your team will flame you for feeding. (Even though death spree mechanics will soon make you less valuable than a minion.) b) Roam to another lane (or jungle) and get accused of trolling. c) Hang out in base and get accused of AFK.
Following that, you have cardboard 7, when kills make the majority of income for each team.
There's also those people who use weird off-builds or non-standard play styles. (I remember when Proxy singed was considered a reportable troll tactic by the community.)
How do you teach an automated system to tell the difference?
Cr3ator2 votesI just had to dodge a game and take a loss to my LP because I had a Garen auto filled support who said they don't care, they're going top. A Rammus ADC, a Vayne going top with Garen because she was auto filled top, and she only plays Vayne....
There needs to be a system in place, that if 3 / 5 people in the lobby do not want to continue, they should be able to vote to leave the lobby due to trolling - it's wayyyy to common. So here I am, sitting out for 5 minutes (I'll be sitting out 30 if it happens again, it's a waste of my time to try to play games like this) because people can troll, with zero consequences. Also, you can't report them if you leave the lobby, because they don't show up on recent players. I've had a Janna jg to intentionally troll, but nothing I can do about it cause they "tried" to jg with her...
Ariel the Cruel2 votesThat's all well and good, but it doesn't answer my question. Lets assume you get that 3-man veto policy (I won't discuss the dynamics of such a thing right now). You still get in game.
a) Your Yasuo top gets stomped by Riven and now has an average life span of 30 seconds in lane before getting assassinated under turret. Gets jungler's permission to take Krugs/Gromp, just so he can get any gold at all.
b) Your Yasuo is a troll, barely CS's and dives into riven after he gets to lane. Keeps stealing Krugs/Gromp to deny his jungler.
These two scenarios might seem unambiguous to us, but how do you teach an automated system to tell the difference? That's the dilemma Riot faces.
SoryInAdvance1 votesit would need to be at least 4/5. 3/5 is way too easy.
BALDG1VEN BOOMER15 votesI mean they’re not that bad now considering you get a free win on another attempt.
But this does happen to everyone so yeah it’s not a coincidence.
Onotori15 votesYeah, but that free win doesn't do much when you get two games of people who honestly shouldn't be matched anywhere near your rank. >.>
BALDG1VEN BOOMER5 votesLike I said though it happens to everyone just be glad you get a free win now compared to before or if you’re Plat+
Mojihito66610 votesRiot: "We do not force 50% winrate"
Riot : "Your Team has a 50% (+-1) chance to win"
rtbf761092715 votesRiot: "We do not force 50% winrate"
Riot : "Your Team has a 50% (+-1) chance to win"
what the hell are with these fake riot quotes that they have never said anything like before
also the MMR/ELO system does inherantly push your winrate towards 50%. If your win rate is 60%, your ELO goes up and you play against better people until your win rate naturally goes down
Mojihito6668 votes"what the hell are with these fake riot quotes that they have never said anything like before"
Its not fake lol. It was like from 2 weeks ago.
"also the MMR/ELO system does inherantly push your winrate towards 50%. If your win rate is 60%, your ELO goes up and you play against better people until your win rate naturally goes down"
No if my win rate is 60% then my teammates must have as much less to balance 50% chance to win. AS RIOT STATED.
Ariel the Cruel1 votesNo if my win rate is 60% then my teammates must have as much less to balance 50% chance to win. AS RIOT STATED.
This goes in both directions. Some times your allies or down and/or enemies are up. Some times you are out-match to balance someone else. Ideally, most of the players are close.
That's just how the system works. It wants to give each team a 50% chance to win. It doesn't care about your individual win rate.
Mojihito6661 votesBut it cannot give each team 50% chance to win if it doesn't care about individual win rate.
If am a challenger smurf in silver elo with 80% winrate my team have much more than 50% chance to win.
So either riot dont understand what they claim or they dont understand what they are doing or lie, or combination of them all. That or RIOT knows exactly what its doing but YOU ARE CLUELESS.
Ariel the Cruel1 votesBut it cannot give each team 50% chance to win if it doesn't care about individual win rate.
The system tries to recalculate value or strength after every match (your MMR). It uses that estimation when creating matches. All that matters to the system is where you were during queue, and whether you won the specific match it put you in. Everything before you queued up is irrelevant.
Mojihito6661 votes"Everything before you queued up is irrelevant."
But it is relevant !! You only WISH it weren't
when your10 votesPromos are rigged as fuck. Whenever I get to my promos, I get stuck in the fucking promo cycle that never ends. Took me ages to get up one division. It was a-okay to climb back up to my promos after losing them, but getting to the next shit was so fucking hard. This isn't just me though, my husband, our friends, people we met in our games, all complained about this. Idk what kind of math there's there but damn
meowwow77 votessinged mid with the mind set of hashinshin ezreal jg with blood razor that afk farmed most of the match and a trist that thought she was a tank yep i know that feel
YiffMeImAFurry8 votessinged mid with the mind set of hashinshin ezreal jg with blood razor that afk farmed most of the match and a trist that thought she was a tank yep i know that feel
Tutorial teaches you to build thornmail on ADC lol
sticky and juicy6 votesI was in my gold promos(which meant a lot for a hardstuck silver like me), and this is how it went:
1st game, had an AFK (and it was actually a close game...) 2nd game, had a Yi who went 0/11 3rd game, had someone who said something like "This is a compromised account. If you don't want a loss, you should dodge" in Champ Select. No one wanted to dodge.(I couldn't for obvious reasons)
I'm usually not one to wear the tinfoil hat, but it's actually hard for me to believe nothing fishy's going on.
TTv Koddok5 votesPromos for Gold V Top lane is Bronze II Mid lane is SIlver V on a 10 game loss streak Bot lane is a duo but are very toxic
I know the feel man.
Madsin255 votesIt's not the promos that are rigged exactly. It's the win streaks that are rigged.
You have to go on a win streak to get into your promos. When you go on win streaks you get worse opponents.
Toothierosprey32 votesThis is exactly what happens. As you win a bunch in a row, your mmr shoots up and you have to preform better in order to win.
Inari Fox Orrion4 votesOh my b, I thought it was on me that I got an Amumu who sat in an unwarded bush, told me to go in and idly spammed the /taunt while Lucian nuked me for first-blood, proceeded to call everyone bad and then AFKfarm the jungle.
Tomoe Gozen4 votesSounds to me like you're heavily biased because you know that if you're in your Promos (moving up in a Tier/Division), you consider these games more important than the games you've played previously. Therefore you're expecting everything to go perfectly and without a hitch and once you get hit with the usual situation from any game, you always think it's because the system is rigged and that you're mostly losing your promos because of how bad your teams tend to get.
Onotori2 votesNo, it's almost like I've been playing a ton lately, and the moment I hit promos the quality of my team just plummets.
You're on a winstreak whenever you hit promos, and the system tries to stop that. Happens outside of promos too, but it's more noticeable there.
SB Arneeman3 votesI get sad when seeing 3 autofilled/secondary role in my promos, including me... In my deciding diamond promo as well, my team was 0/9 while I was 1/0 early game, getting 1v2 first blood without any summoners. Team proceeded to int and troll when I didn't want to surrender.
I wished individual skill was more important, but as a midlaner, it seems harder to have impact by yourself this season than ever before. I played since season 3 and I honestly can't remember any other time where you just lost 90-95% of games where botlane lost. Junglers can also remove the lead from ~10 minutes of outplaying your opponent(better farming and trades leading to cs lead) with one gank. If botlane win you can literally afk farm and autowin teamfights once you group. At least itemization is more interesting and assassins kinda weak though.
IainG1014 votesRiot straight up said they don't view individual skill important enough to include in you MMR because 'it's a team game'.
They can either actually hold to this and remove Ranked Solo, or they can redo the system; they cannot do both without being hypocritical...
Boiled Triangles3 votes1% individual skill? Then how do you explain the people who can get to plat in a few days? They're just lucky, right? Silly post.
Davaken3 votesDidn't they debunk the theory of the system forcing you to get a 50% winrate by matchmaking you with feeders/trolls? Also, please provide proof of this, before demanding everyone else to disprove it.
Toothierosprey32 votesPeople just want to have something to blame other than personal skill, because whether you believe it or not, you're probably worse than you think you are...
Saibbo3 votesDo you want a proof :3 ? coincidences ? maybe
Last time I played lol :
Today (4 outta 6) :
The Yetii Rider2 votesGetting promoted SHOULD be difficult. That's part of the reason why it's a satisfying challenge to climb.
Not sure why you want the achievement to be dumbed down.
Paintchip8 votes[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atUcbvAc,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-03-05T17:59:55.865+0000)
Getting promoted SHOULD be difficult. That's part of the reason why it's a satisfying challenge to climb.
Not sure why you want the achievement to be dumbed down.
Bro.....
Really?
The challenge should come from the opponents on the other team! NOT from the “opponents” on your own “team”.
Starcraft243ver2 votesThat's a matter of perspective.
A gold looks godlike compared to a bronze, put me in front of a bronze and I'll crush my lane, farm nearly perfectly, even If i do mistakes you probably wont notice it because I will not get punished for these mistakes.
Put a master to face me and I look trash, he will punish every attempt to farm, i'll miss CS trying to avoid his poke, i'll get rekt, any single mistake I do will backfire instantly.
In the two games I would have been the same player with the same skill, yet in one you would want me in your team and in the other you'd report me for feeding.
When someone feeds in your team : "Omg he's so bad". When you get fed : "Omg I'm so good".
The brain is really good at finding excuses when we are mediocre, else I think we would all be suicidal, but as a matter of fact, 99% of us just SUXX at this game. The 1% left might have some clue how to play this game, at least the basics.
winners find solutions losers make excuses
Remember this. No matter what your mom did tell you, you are not special.
DummyTroll1 votesHaha
"Remember this. No matter what your mom did tell you, you are not special."
Loved this one. In some cases is quite the opposite :)
Remember this. No matter what your mom did tell you, you are special.
"The brain is really good at finding excuses when we are mediocre, else I think we would all be suicidal, but as a matter of fact, 99% of us just SUXX at this game. The 1% left might have some clue how to play this game, at least the basics."
Everything is relative as you stated previously. And by matter of fact, there are only 3 kind of players:
Those with 51%+ win rate. Those are improving and climbing the ladder. Thus better than their current rank. Those at 50%. Those are at their spot. Those at 49%- Win rate. Those were boosted, duoing boosted, meta or RNG gods favored. But decaying to their place.
Where are you at?
Starcraft243ver2 votesThere are edge case you didnt consider actually.
You can freelose until you reach the lowest mmr ever, let's say it's 0.
Then you keep losing a thousant game at this elo.
Then you start playing seriously, litterally winning every single game : in less than 100 games you'll be diamond, yet your total record would be 100 - 1000 which is a bit less than 10% winrate, yet you are climbing.
There are some other few edge case as well, but what you have to remember is that it's your winrate on your last 50-100 games which is interesting to look at.
DummyTroll1 votes:)
True. I wasn't taking into account edge cases.
Dealth2 votesTwo things I never understand
Ariel the Cruel2 votesPeople think promos are more important games.
It matters if you're below gold and want the season rewards. Which I like to think applies to 99% of the player base (LCS being the 1%). Because if you're not LCS, and not targeting season rewards, ranked queue becomes pointless in it's entirety. (>_>)
FilDaFunk2 votes3rd promo game:
ADC determined to feed Top laners does very little to help the game
ADC and Jungler keep flaming
sigh
Anastaecia2 votesOK, normal logic doesn't work around here...how's this then:
I think we can all agree that Riot has problems keeping 139 champs balanced around 50% WR....
then how do you expect them to have a system in place that somehow keeps 100 million players at 50?
[sg-poppy]
Northmund1 votesMake code that will sort 30% winrates with other 30% and good player who have win streak with other people who have win streak? Also they get paid for job they can not do :P Only one who functions properly in riot is music/sound team.
Vah Medoh2 votesAnd cinematics.
I remember that they when Riot decided to "not refund champs/skins because support is overwhelm, but they would like to do something about it".
I remember how many simple and effective ideas were given, and none answered them. So, what to expect about those employees that cannot do their job and still are there.
