So, if I'm going to have posts removed for asking LGBT people to stop...

Onotori·May 22, 2018·92 votes·18,351 views

Then LGBT posts begging Riot for all kinds of things should be disallowed as well. As Ulanopo put it, political discussions are against the rules, as are other controversial topics.

It also violates the rules against political/social/religious discussion,

Edit: I didn't think this thread would blow up like this. But I see a lot of people doubting that my posts were deleted for some reason, so here:

Notification #1

Hey Onotori,

Your removed content:

There's a lot of things I'd like to say about that, but it'd probably be considered racist, so I likely can't.

But, I can say this: Fuck representation. It's all vanity anyway.

While we aren't taking any actions against your account at this time, please keep in mind that continued violation of the Boards Universal Rules and sub-board guidelines may result in future punishments.

"But, I can say this: Fuck representation. It's all vanity anyway."

Again, posts that incite drama and cross over into disallowed discussions are not allowed.

If you have any questions about this moderation action, don't hesitate to reach out to the Boards Moderation Team via:

The NA Boards Discord The Discuss the Boards sub-board

-- Ulanopo

Notification #2

Hey Onotori ,

Your removed content:

Identifying so hard by what you look like to the point you throw a tantrum if you're not being "represented" and file lawsuits and all that is most definitely excessive pride.

While we aren't taking any actions against your account at this time, please keep in mind that continued violation of the Boards Universal Rules and sub-board guidelines may result in future punishments.

This content has been removed for existing almost entirely to provoke and cause drama. It also violates the rules against political/social/religious discussion, especially in Story, Art and Sound. This has been rolled into your current suspension.

If you have any questions about this moderation action, don't hesitate to reach out to the Boards Moderation Team via:

The NA Boards Discord The Discuss the Boards sub-board

-- Ulanopo

More mod things. (I didn't get notifications for these ones)

{quoted}

These, as well as the 3 other comments that were recently removed

231 Comments

ModPeriscopeMay 22, 201855 votes

We do delete posts that are political/religious/social, because frankly they're not usually related to League. Some champs, as well as the new Rainbow Poro icon and Riot's supporting diversity, and IDAHOTB, brings up sexuality or other social issues into discussions. Where I stand on that issue is irrelevant; it's been brought forward by Riot. Since the issue is related to League, these posts can stay. I do agree that if we're going to allow these posts up, then there should be equal opportunity to voice opposition, and that's fine so long as it's done in a respectful manner. There are posts in both threads where your comments were deleted where dissenting opinions were left up, as they were 1) done in a respectful manner and 2) furthered the discussion.

(Edit 2043 CST) Here's one ~~taken~~ deleted from a recent thread about Pyke being black:

Identifying so hard by what you look like to the point you throw a tantrum if you're not being "represented" and file lawsuits and all that is most definitely excessive pride.

That was in response to a player questioning why you thought celebrating champion diversity was "vanity," as you put it.

Here's one that I deleted from a post discussing how Riot intends to use gay characters in their game

Fuck off with your vanity. Call me a homophobe if you want, I don't care.

These, as well as the 3 other comments that were recently removed, took a markedly different tone than any other comments on those discussions. You were not trying to be respectful, but inflammatory. Your tone and explanations to responses made it clear you weren't interested in discussing the issue, but that you wanted to anger other posters.

Stars ShaperMay 22, 20185 votes

The second comment was surely worth of removal, the first one I'm not sure but given that I don't know the context I'll trust your judgement.

Anyway while the OP brought as example his personal experience, the thread as a whole seems more into the lines of: "treat the same way comments/threads about giving socially righteous tokens the same way you treat comments saying that we don't need them".

The Blue RajahMay 22, 20181 votes

I know it wasn’t entirely clear, but the first post quoted was NOT deleted, and the second post was. It was meant to demonstrate that contrary opinions don’t get deleted as long as they’re respectful. Definitely could have been worded more clearly though.

Stars ShaperMay 22, 20184 votes

Yeah i got that both were deleted or moderated, my bad.

Thee Pie ManMay 22, 201818 votes

The only thing controversial is the fact you're asking them to remove content like that in the first place. This shit should be normalized already and the fact that you think it is controversial to talk about asking for representation in the game seems pretty ridiculous to me. What they are doing doesn't effect you unless you have a problem with those groups of people existing, and if you do then you should reevaluate your life choices/opinions because it's a damn right to be respected by other human beings and to alienate people because of how you personally feel about it, whatever your thoughts on it are seems pretty unjust.

We're literally celebrating the diversity of League, in other words: Get over yourself.

OnotoriMay 22, 201848 votes

How I feel about someone's decision on where they stick their thing is none of anyone's business.

LGBT is a political movement, however, and has no place on these forums, as per the official rules. And discussing sexuality and representation is a social issue, which is also not allowed.

Thee Pie ManMay 22, 20189 votes

{quoted}

How I feel about someone's decision on where they stick their thing is none of anyone's business.

LGBT is a political movement, however, and has no place on this forums, as per the official rules.

For one thing we're celebrating diversity of people such as those with an event and a basically free icon. If it was actually a political movement then wouldn't the Rioter's post have to be taken down as well? Pretty sure your posts got taken down due to controversial reasons based on whatever reason you had for posting them to begin with- which was 0 since what they do doesn't effect you as I'll reiterate here.

And another thing LGBT is a group of people falling under "Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Trans" Labels, there are social movements that have to do with those peoples, but "LGBT" itself isn't some political swaying device as much as just an overall term for those that fall under the category as a community of persons with different from what once wasn't commonly accepted, but now IS with the legalization of gay marriage in the USA and what not.

IcyPepperMay 22, 20186 votes

Now, do you believe this goes both ways, and we need to remove any hints that characters like the opposite sex?

Emo TwinkMay 22, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Now, do you believe this goes both ways, and we need to remove any hints that characters like the opposite sex?

Delete straight representation or stop complaining about us wanting some is actually a valid way of putting it.

IcyPepperMay 22, 20186 votes

I mean, it's mostly a joke. I'm just kind of sad so many people are in agreement with him.

You can disagree with LGBT sentiments (I personally do not want a character that goes "oh btw I'm gay" every 30 seconds, and unfortunately there's people who do!) without being an arse about it. But now people want to silence this type of discussion...? It's worrisome, especially if they think it's due to "vanity."

If they get their way, they get to continue their life as is while a small group gets silenced about something important to them. That's not "equality."

Emo TwinkMay 22, 20189 votes

{quoted}

I mean, it's mostly a joke. I'm just kind of sad so many people are in agreement with him.

You can disagree with LGBT sentiments (I personally do not want a character that goes "oh btw I'm gay" every 30 seconds, and unfortunately there's people who do!) without being an arse about it. But now people want to silence this type of discussion...? It's worrisome, especially if they think it's due to "vanity."

If they get their way, they get to continue their life as is while a small group gets silenced about something important to them. That's not "equality."

yea i dont want it shoved in my face, i just want cute interactions like Zoe's crush on ezreal.

IcyPepperMay 22, 20183 votes

Same. Maybe a side story at most.

Emo TwinkMay 22, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Same. Maybe a side story at most.

we have varus' story, but just interactions, stories/backstories, comics etc like that for multiple characters. stuff thats already been done, but having LGBT to the character. Not hard, and it's actually something unlike just saying "lol that characters gay, have fun with them".

Edit: Just adding to this, an example is Tayliah. She's canonly bi, but no interactions reflect that. I think she has a voiceline finding ekko cute, but representation is as simple as something like that but with a girl.

IcyPepperMay 22, 201811 votes

Not placed in a pedestal, not shoved in the closet, just a natural aspect of a character like anything else. I think that's what most of us want.

This topic has been blown way out of proportion.

OleandervineMay 22, 20188 votes

{quoted}

Not placed in a pedestal, not shoved in the closet, just a natural aspect of a character like anything else. I think that's what most of us want.

This topic has been blown way out of proportion.

I agree, it's as if a single gay flirt in a character's list of jokes/taunts would somehow rock the foundations of the game and usher in the end of times or something.

OleandervineMay 22, 201810 votes

{quoted}

yea i dont want it shoved in my face, i just want cute interactions like Zoe's crush on ezreal.

That's all I want. Someone like Taric as he is, except he's got a joke where he hits on Ezreal or something. It doesn't have to be on repeat or ingrained in their voice over at every other word. His exact VO as it is on live - with just a few flirts for males when he uses his joke or taunt interaction near certain champions. Like how Illaoi's flirts with Braum and Gangplank don't actually have any affect on her VO outside of the jokes.

Votable JesterMay 22, 20182 votes

You're being a lot more reasonable than that first person.

I agree that the discussion should certainly be available as I think all relevant discussion should be allowed. I don't think diversity in sexuality should be forced upon the characters for the sake of diversity, but I do agree that the discussion of the topic should be allowed.

Personally I'd be fine if all references to sexuality of characters was removed so long as it is not relevant to the characters (for instance Xayah and Rakan have to remain attracted to each other). Having most characters completely ambiguous actually seems best to me though. The information is irrelevant, and plugging it in will only serve to alienate parts of the playerbase.

Edit: Looking at some of the other comments, interactions like Zoe's little crush on Ezreal are nice, and could be added to more champions. I still think most should be ambiguous, but having it mentioned on a few gives interesting variety.

Warlord RhinarkMay 22, 201850 votes

Since you guys are clearly making a controversy OVER WHETHER OR NOT SOMETHING IS CONTROVERSIAL, you're just confirming that it is indeed a controversial topic.

The layers of irony are thick here.

Thee Pie ManMay 22, 201811 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=KE35jRNu,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-05-22T06:11:40.891+0000)

Since you guys are clearly making a controversy OVER WHETHER OR NOT SOMETHING IS CONTROVERSIAL, you're just confirming that it is indeed a controversial topic.

The layers of irony are thick here.

What's controversial is the idea it shouldn't be accepted. It IS accepted by the majority of people, and discriminating people for it isn't okay.

Warlord RhinarkMay 22, 201850 votes

But the thing is, OP didn't say he "hates" LGBT people. He didn't say he thinks less of them or that he doesn't think it should be accepted.

In other words, he's not discriminating them.

In fact, he is the one being discriminated because his posts are being removed.

The only thing he's asking for is equal treatment for both LGBT and non-LGBT folks on the boards and I'm assuming that's what LGBT is all about? Equality?

VeigàrMay 22, 20186 votes

well said.

Thee Pie ManMay 22, 20189 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=KE35jRNu,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-05-22T06:18:55.608+0000)

But the thing is, OP didn't say he "hates" LGBT people. He didn't say he thinks less of them or that he doesn't think it should be accepted.

In other words, he's not discriminating them.

In fact, he is the one being discriminated because his posts are being removed.

The only thing he's asking for is equal treatment for both LGBT and non-LGBT folks on the boards and I'm assuming that's what LGBT is all about? Equality?

Except you have no idea what he posted that got removed in the first place. This isn't about equality in this case- the golden rule of the boards is to be respectful of the community and fellow members, staff, and etc. The idea that rule exists in the first place is saddening, but it's more saddening that I have to point out that, that is what is happening. OP might not be out right saying he hates anyone, nor is he saying he thinks less of anyone either, or that they shouldn't be accepted. However what he is saying is he posted X about a group of persons asking for whatever it is they are asking for, telling them that they shouldn't be doing such from my understanding of the situation.

If that's not some kind of implied "you're not welcome here" talk, then what is it? Because it's come to blows suddenly it's a social/political matter that he didn't even think to bring up until it got to this point? If it hadn't been something like retaliation we'd be having a different conversation, however from what I'm seeing that's exactly what it is. If it really broke the rules before hand he should have said that first and foremost and not even brought up anything else, however he made it personal and brought up how he didn't get something his way, so they also don't.

Du Ma MiMay 22, 201817 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thee Pie Man,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=KE35jRNu,comment-id=00000001000000000001,timestamp=2018-05-22T06:33:38.474+0000)

Except you have no idea what he posted that got removed in the first place.

However what he is saying is he posted X about a group of persons asking for whatever it is they are asking for, telling them that they shouldn't be doing such from my understanding of the situation.

You get mad at someone for not knowing what he posted in the first place, and then you just make an angry assumption about what he posted in the first place?

Thee Pie ManMay 22, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Du Ma Mi,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=KE35jRNu,comment-id=000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-22T12:09:21.679+0000)

You get mad at someone for not knowing what he posted in the first place, and then you just make an angry assumption about what he posted in the first place?

Actually I saw what he wrote on the topics themselves. I'm not getting mad at anything I know exactly what he's talking about and he's just lashing out because he feels this punishment was unjust when he was disparaging against other members of the community as if it was of little worth. He was even quoted as calling it "vanity." Whatever that means. I didn't even understand the post he made, and then he outright deleted it without explaining to anyone.

Warlord RhinarkMay 22, 201825 votes

I remember that vanity post as well.

The thing is, he's not calling "LGBT" vanity.

He's calling LGBT people NEEDING to have a character that SPECIFICALLY REPRESENTS THEM in the game or they feel UNREPRESENTED "vanitical".

And, to be fair, I'll have to agree.

Oh, and I want to see proof that he actually removed that post himself or I'm going to disregard it.

ArakadiaMay 23, 20186 votes

Considering LGBT members are not represented in 99% of media, they certainly deserve more representation.

ZURELLMay 22, 20186 votes

i dont get how someone orientation is somehow political. it's really just boils down to rep. lol doesnt affect the political state or the house or the senate. it's really just people feeling left out. i dont see how that's political. if that's political then you people complaining about patch decisions is political. becuz you feel as tho it infringes on your gaming experience. and the lack of rep for a certain group of people that play this game gives the exact same feeling to that corresponding community. just becuz you dont align or identify yourself with that community doesnt make what theyre saying any less valid.

Warlord RhinarkMay 22, 20189 votes

Lol doesn't affect the political state or the house or the senate?

It's really just people feeling left out?

What?

That's not the problem here.

The problem here is that OP is getting his posts removed for talking about LGBT people, while LGBT people are allowed to talk about it as much as they want.

ZURELLMay 22, 20181 votes

im not sure i got the rules right then. i thought it was no political discussion on the boards.

Warlord RhinarkMay 22, 20185 votes

No you got the rules right.

No politics allowed.

ZURELLMay 22, 20188 votes

then this isnt about anything political. the guys just being a dick. and is mistaking it for being discriminated against [sona-playing]

FurriesAreHotMay 22, 20187 votes

Religion, Politics, and Social Issues are not to be discussed on the boards.

OleandervineMay 22, 201810 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=KE35jRNu,comment-id=000000010000000000020000,timestamp=2018-05-22T13:26:44.138+0000)

Lol doesn't affect the political state or the house or the senate?

It's really just people feeling left out?

What?

That's not the problem here.

The problem here is that OP is getting his posts removed for talking about LGBT people, while LGBT people are allowed to talk about it as much as they want.

The OP's posts were removed because they were being unrealistic and offensive about everything. They called the LGBT people looking for acceptance and equality as "vanity" and basically said that the best way to be equal was to disappear from public view like the "normal people," as if somehow becoming invisible would make all the problems go away.

Warlord RhinarkMay 22, 201812 votes

They did NOT call LGBT people looking for acceptance and equality as "vanity".

He called LGBT people NEEDING to have a character that represents them in the game or otherwise they feel "unrepresented" as "vanitical".

There is a difference.

OleandervineMay 22, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=KE35jRNu,comment-id=00000001000000000002000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-22T13:43:05.134+0000)

They did NOT call LGBT people looking for acceptance and equality as "vanity".

He called LGBT people NEEDING to have a character that represents them in the game or otherwise they feel "unrepresented" as "vanitical".

There is a difference.

Let's look at what they said:

{quoted}

You don't have to be arrogant to be vain. It's not the same as narcissism.

Vain means you put too much value / excessive pride into appearances. Now, the whole LGBT movement is... just that. No one is stopping you from being gay, you're able to get married, all that. So what point does the whole organization have? It's all about vanity.

Oh, and "representation" isn't actually about representing anything. It's about pushing your image onto everything else. So, yes, the OP is being vain.

I'm sorry, you were saying? Calling the entire movement "vanity" is saying that LGBT people looking for acceptance is "vanity." Please try again.

DrCyanideMay 22, 20185 votes

No one is stopping you from being gay, you're able to get married, all that. So what point does the whole organization have?

I think you're overlooking this part of their statement when coming to your conclusion. LGBT organizations make sense when working to obtain equal rights and helping others who feel the same way as them find a community they belong to. Outside of that focus, particularly to an outsider, these movements can indeed feel excessive and vain.

It's hard to believe someone's "representation" argument when they're not arguing for better representation of all people/ways of life, only one particular type of people/way of life. As an example, when was the last time you saw someone in film/tv/games who was devote to their religion that wasn't portrayed as crazy or in the center of some supernatural event? Just a run of the mill average believer. To my knowledge, the only religious person in League is Illaoi, but since she's literally got her God's tentacles at her command she falls in the "supernatural" category, not a regular believer. Average believers make up a significantly larger portion of the world's population than the LGBT community, but I haven't seen anyone demanding they be represented.

Anyway, we digress. Which is precisely the reason why the topic is against the rules.

Warlord RhinarkMay 22, 20183 votes

I'm pretty sure all of these champions are religious as well (correct me if I'm wrong):

Akali Diana Elise Karthus Kennen Leona Lissandra Malzahar Shen Taliyah Viktor

Velzard of KozMay 22, 20182 votes

Technically, there are people who refer to Buddhism as way of life rather than religion which would mean that Akali, Shen and Kennen are just hipsters.

Jerry SeinfeIdMay 22, 20184 votes

Akali Kennen Shen Can't really call the kinkou order a religion tbh, they actively try to hold up balance. Diana Leona Both are able to actually call forth the power of their religion's "god" so fit the illaoi category Elise Lissandra Both follow/worship a being they know exists and have had contact with, not an all powerfull entity. Viktor The church based on viktor's ideals is not viktor's doing afaik he isn't related to them to that extent. He believes in his ideals and is not following a religion. Malzahar Well he's a prophet and cult leader. I guess religion's are pretty much big cults so depending on your stance he's religious. But follows a natural phenomenon and idk the exact definition of religion but afaik you need some kinda god. Karthus Karthus is pretty much viktor but about death. Karthus believes death is better than life and thus wishes to spread it. Not really a religion.. Taliyah No idea, pretty sure she believes in some kinda sand stuff so... yes?.

DrCyanideMay 22, 20182 votes

Diana Leona Karthus Lissandra Malzahar "believe" in a force that physically altered them. Their very existence is proof to everyone they encounter that they've seen something/been possessed. These would be categorized as being in something "supernatural", it's not something the average believer goes through. In some ways they're existence is also something tangible others can point to to say "see! Look at them! That's why I believe!" It's the same problem the Ascended have.

Kennen Akali Shen have struck me as more akin to martial artists. They're disciplined, they belong to a group of like minded individuals, but I'm not aware of any religious teachings associated with that discipline. (Unless you count "don't look in the Shadow Box")

Taliyah I think I'm missing why you included her in the list. To my knowledge of lore (which, admittedly, is virtually non-existent for the last year), the only thing that's been mentioned is that she isn't a fan of Azir ruling Shurima.

Viktor believes in the Glorious Revolution, and has worked towards it, but he's also the founder of that belief. That said, he seems the significantly closer to an average believer to me than the others listed. He didn't have some mechanical angel telling him to do it, he wasn't taken over by machines, he is where he is because he believes becoming one with a machine is the best way forward. Maybe you could argue he's crazy, but he's at least the closest of what you listed to an average believer.

Warlord RhinarkMay 22, 20186 votes

I'm pretty sure Taliyah believes in The Weaver, the Shuriman goddess of Fate.

When she was still part of her tribe which is called Nasaaj (Shuriman for Weaver) by the way, the elders attributed her mysterious powers as being a gift of The Weaver.

She also has the single quote:

"The great Weaver says every lesson is a gift."

I know it's not much, but it's gotta be something.

(Information taken from the League of Legends wikia page)

ArakadiaMay 23, 20182 votes

His posts aren't being removed because of his sexuality though.

Besides, he is far from inclusive of the LGBT community.

Warlord RhinarkMay 23, 20182 votes

...I didn't say that they're getting removed because of his sexuality though?

Who said that?

ArakadiaMay 23, 20181 votes

He did.

And he has anti-lgbt values to some extent. Which is not the same thing as being a homophobe.

Warlord RhinarkMay 23, 20182 votes

I-

I didn't call him a homophobe though?

AhrisMay 22, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thee Pie Man,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=KE35jRNu,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-22T06:12:59.436+0000)

What's controversial is the idea it shouldn't be accepted. It IS accepted by the majority of people, and discriminating people for it isn't okay.

Its not accepted by majority only by loud people on the streets.

Thee Pie ManMay 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Its not accepted by majority only by loud people on the streets.

Except Churches started accepting said marriages, and almost all states accept gay marriage so pretty sure it is accepted by the majority. Riot as a company are basically pro for celebrating said diversity, not sure where you think that isn't "majority" ruling there.

AhrisMay 27, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thee Pie Man,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=KE35jRNu,comment-id=00000001000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-22T19:16:44.408+0000)

Except Churches started accepting said marriages, and almost all states accept gay marriage so pretty sure it is accepted by the majority. Riot as a company are basically pro for celebrating said diversity, not sure where you think that isn't "majority" ruling there.

Pressured by loud people lol

ZURELLMay 22, 20181 votes

no ones making a controversy over anything. luckily we have the privilege to have to say anything already. the authority has already spoken. you're just on the other side of the argument with no power but the words you type and the cry you make.

(remember that feeling)

Warlord RhinarkMay 22, 201811 votes

Well, if everyone has this "privilege to say anything already", why is OP getting his posts removed by talking about LGBT?

And what is this "authority" you're talking about that has "already spoken"?

And of course I don't have any power besides the words I type and "the cry I make". I'm just a guy with a keyboard. I'm not the president.

But YOU ALSO don't have any power besides the words YOU type and the cry YOU make, so you can't just act like you have more power than me.

Because you don't.

(remember that feeling)