Since this is a big midseason patch i wanted to suggest Garen changes/minirework

Moody P··3 votes·2,210 views

I've been very vocal about my discontent with his current state so I wanted to make my own change list after seeing the very wild changes on PBE right now.

What I went for was giving Garen new ways of expressing skill through resource management and adding more utility that could help make him useful in higher elo and more reasonable in lower ranks. He's still easy to understand and a great learner champion but now he has more "threat." His defining high moment is placed on his spin with power taken elsewhere. I also focus on his anti caster niche and double down on it.

First, E; Garen has a new Momentum resource that only affects his spins. He gains charges by attacking units with autos and Q and expends them when using E; each individual spin uses up a full charge of Momentum, giving that spin X% Critical chance, with Momentum stacks scaling with however many spins he has. E also now deals the 1% max HP true damage per spin to all champions.

Lastly E can be canceled at any time but the spell will go full cool down instead.

Q: Damage nerfed, Garen gains attack speed against his silenced opponent only for a couple of seconds.

W: Damage absorbed during the first .75 seconds of W contributes to Momentum charges based on damage dealt premitigation.

R: Villainy removed. Instead, on a successful execute, Garen grants allies who were near the slain target movement speed toward enemies.

He has a less cheesy lane pattern now that his Q burst is reduced, with the option of taking the opportunity to trade more aggressively for a higher reward. E is now more of a high momentthat it deserves to be, that gives Garen more flexibility in its use, either banking charges for a big unload, which puts him at risk of being disengaged and wasting it all, or canceling it early to conserve his stacks but opening himself up to a fast reengage from enemies. Using his W correctly now rewards him higher for countering burst focused enemies -- his natural prey - without outright being a hard counter; he still has to use the spell correctly to reap its highest rewards.

5 Comments

Critmaster Garen2 votes

eeeh. interesting.

but i still would prefer if they just built like item 3005 or the impaler into his kit. i know the 4 or 5 stacks thing to pop off has been done a lot, but his kit is overall fine as it is, except for the semi randomness of the villainy passive and the complete lack of in combat sustain.

just give him a stack counter like Mordekaiser has. 0.5% + 0.5%/second in combat with champions of his max health as ad means hes maxed out at 4 seconds, and then gets the 1% true damage on spins and basic attacks.

give him ways to generate bonus stacks by spinning on more enemies, and successful ults to activate it faster in larger fights.

this mechanic would also even out ranged/pokey matchups a bit, since taking poke means hes in combat with enemy champions and likely to activate the effect before going in on a full engage.


if he were to get an attack speed buff into his kit, it would be more useful to activate after his spin than before, similar to how i used to run item 3142 when it was still a crit item with an attack speed active.

i used to build ghostblade mainly, because it allowed him to lead into more extended fights. q + 3 seconds of spin into ghostblade active for 6 seconds of 40% attack speed and movement speed to keep the fight going, until his q and spin are available for a second rotation.

this made ghostblade the only really useful item with attack speed back in the day, because you wouldnt really waste the stat. you would just pop a high as steroid on a cooldown for a few seconds after your spin. it just worked insanely well with his kit. especially since its base stats were really good too (ad/cdr/flat armor pen/crit).

this would be really what id be looking for.

Moody P1 votes

I think Garen already has enough of those mechanics where he just gets numbers mostly for existing, between his W and his passive I would like his base kit to be a bit more engaging and have a clearer goal. Also want his E to actually be useful and the focal point of his kit since playing him for Q burst where E is just filler until R is going to kill is not fun.

Crispy0Snake1 votes

Something that makes him better in lower elos is that his R doesn't scale on anything. If you cs well and win lane, you get no added impact with your R. So people in low elo that just soak the lane xp and miss CS are as strong as players that win the lane in higher elo

I think his R should have a bonus hp ratio and less base damage, like "garen you cs well, you played lane well, you won, here's something to help you snowball" because every other toplaner's damage ult has some kind of scaling that means better players are rewarded

I was thinking also "upon killing an opponent with R, your summoner cooldowns are reduced by 30%/40%/50%" so you flash in to kill a champ, you succeed, you get rewarded

Moody P1 votes

The way his R works is actually beneficial to him at any rank. Garen is less likely to come out of lane with very good scores the higher you climb and since he generally exits laning phase down CS, he usually doesn't start off with that sort of lead. His R compliments that by being so consistent; you always know what damage you're going to do with it, and how useful it can be to you. I like this quality, honestly, it's very comfortable. It also means that Garen doesn't get ridiculously snowball heavy where he gets a lead and then suddenly obliterated with his ultimate.

Lohenngramm1 votes

Personally, I've always felt that Garen expresses his skill through macro-play rather than micro-play. You don't have the flashy mechanics or windows of power that other champions possess, but that also means you can't use abilities like that as a crutch. The way you outplay your opponents is by playing the game better instead of the champion. Sure a Darius or a Camille or even an Irelia can win trades against you early (if they know what they're doing) but they'll miss CS trying and failing to kill you. While you might take some lumps and die multiple times in lane, your focus on farm and tower plates lets you come back with multiple items and suddenly despite their fancy mechanics you're throwing down with them quite effectively now. Come late game and despite your teammates earlier groaning you're now 15 kills up and carrying your team.

Really that's what I've found is the consistent best way to play Garen. Remember that the game is more than the lane phase and play for macro. Split push to farm and take objectives, always ward and be where the enemy doesn't want you to be. Yeah it's not as flashy as doing 50 different Q dashes with Irelia or dashing through an entire team as Yasuo, but it has it's own amount of skill and effectiveness. Boring but Practical I believe is the term.

In regards to your specific changes, W and E seem more like just straight buffs. I question the Q change though I see what you're trying to do with it. It adds a risk/reward decision to his kit by making the player weigh "do I want to auto more to get a more damaging spin or do I spin immediately for guaranteed damage?" The problem with that is it doesn't address the reason why you Q/E immediately, that being to ensure you can get the damage off before the enemy can dash/flash away. Basically these changes make him more punishing for low mobility champions to fight and far easier for ranged and high mobility champions, which Garen already struggled with.

The only change I'd disagree with completely is the R. While I won't say a sufficiently coordinated and skilled team couldn't make use of it of the speed boost, I do feel like that would cripple Garen's ability to play beyond the mid-game. His role (not counting off builds) is to be a beefy frontliner who kills whichever enemy player is carrying and he legitimately needs the Villain damage to do that with any effectiveness unless he's massively ahead. That damage is what lets you come from behind and kill that fed Darius who was cutting a swathe through your team. It's what lets you take out a 10k health Cho'gath who your team had been tickling up to that point, and it's effectively your only way of throwing down with a fed Draven or Vayne. The change you suggested moves Garen's ult away from a way to shut down a priority target into something you blow on any low health target to get your team the speed boost so that they can position and fight more effectively.

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