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Jax Rework Concept

AirKingNeo··4 votes·5,825 views

If you play Jax, or understand the problems of him (and hybrid carries in general), you'll come to realize Jax has many problems. Tanks can outscale him by building thornmail, thus Jax who normally would have beaten tanks because he's tanky enough to take their damage, can't because he hurts himself too much doing so. For a splitpushing duelist, this is a huge problem, but this isn't the only problem. Due to these downsides, a lot of power is put into his E - Counterstrike.

Jax, the supposed late game carry, has very little aspects of a late game carry. He doesn't carry any form of damage that doesn't fall off, being either multiplying (like Crit) or any kind of Percent Health. You could say he's a hybrid champion makes him not fall off, but this is completely false. Squishies now get 0.5 MR/level in their stat growth (before they had Locket's passive), and can buy GA for a decent set of armor. A tank simply builds 1-2 armor items and visage and Jax will struggle to kill them. He doesn't have any form of armor or magic penetration either. His items of sustain don't do much because he has no penetration for his attacks to deal much damage to sustain from. In addition, he's plain terrible at teamfighting.

With what is hopefully a Diver Rework this preseason, now is a great time to suggest and discuss said champions.

General

  • Ability Icons updated

  • Fishing Rod icon for his passive no longer makes sense since the first lore is no longer relevant.

    • "he is only allowed to fight with weapons the League deems suitable. For now, that list includes a lamppost, a chicken's foot, a spatula, and a fishing rod."

  • Base stats adjusted

  • Base mana increased or ability mana costs decreased

  • We have fighters like Riven, Kled, and Aatrox who have no mana, and we have Fiora is barely has mana costs. Jax's are a bit high, but some help is nice.

Passive - Relentless Assault

  • NEW: Jax deals X-X(+50% AP)(+10% bonus AD) bonus magic damage every third basic attack. (X to be determined)

  • Maximum stacks lowered to 6 from 8.

  • Attack speed per stack changed to 4-12.5% (based on level) from 3.5 - 11% (based on level).

  • Total attack speed changes to 24-75% from 28-88%.

Q - Leap Strike

  • Dash speed increased.

W - Empower

  • Damage changed to 15/35/55/75/95 (+20% AP) (+10% bonus AD). (Numbers arbitrary)

  • NEW: Deals an additional 4/5/6/7/8% (+2.5% per every 100 AP) (+1.5% per every bonus 100 AD). (Numbers arbitrary)

  • The damage from Empower should be about the damage towards a squishy target, but more towards a tank.

  • NEW: Heals Jax for 5/7.5/10/12.5/15% of the damage dealt. (Numbers arbitrary)

E - Counter Strike

  • Cooldown increased by 2 seconds at all ranks.

  • Taking some power out of counterstrike to open up room for other power in his kit.

R - Grandmaster's Might

  • Ultimate-Passive effect removed.

  • Moved to Passive - Relentless Assault.

  • Reworked - ACTIVE: Jax unleashes his might gaining 7/12/17% damage reduction and his attacks deal 30/40/50% more damage (including on-hit effects and on-attack effects, like Empower and Spellblade). (Damage modifier numbers are arbitrary.)

This rework fixes a lot of Jax's issues (though isn't perfect on the numbers) of lacking healing, a way to hurt tanks, and a damage multiplier to make his scaling not linear.

21 Comments

SEKAI3 votes

For those who came in here because of the thumbnail

http://pre07.deviantart.net/d7a7/th/pre/f/2017/150/1/d/jax_grandmaster_at_arms__commission__by_hero_medley-dbaxoek.jpg

Doozku2 votes

If jax get's a rework, I'd much rather it be a large VGU. But for a smaller update like the ones that Rammus got, I think this is fine. Just be extremely careful when amplifying the amount of damage that on-hit items do, because the last time a rework did that, it had to get reverted (I'm talking about KogMaw ).

AirKingNeo1 votes

Jax doesn't need a VGU. He's fine as a champion only needing the adjustments to load up his kit like recent champions. His design is perfect.

Kog'Maw was broke because his doubled AS effectively gave his autos doubled onhit damage and only 80% AD scaling, this is just an percent increase.

Doozku2 votes

I can tell you like Jax so I'm going to have to break this down for you.

Jax is one of the oldest champions in the game. One of the originals in fact. And as such, his kit and model shows. Even though Riot recently did the animation update for jax, his auto attacks are still fairly clunky and his model is just outdated. His kit is also extremely simple. Just auto-attack, auto-attack, auto-attack. His Q is one of the most basic spells in the game, his W is one of the most basic spells in the game, and his E is used more for the stun than it is the auto attack reduction. His ultimate is an incredibly boring spell that you barely notice. Its powerful, but unnoticeable. The effect you do notice is the extra damage on every third hit, which is really satisfying but leaves the ult feeling bipolar. I'd rather have a cool active and a lame passive for my ultimate, rather than a lame active but a cool passive.

Jax was meant to abuse on-hit effects, but because of how the game's evolved, his best builds involve Tri into Titanic into Tank so that you can use your W and the Titanic reset to instantly proc your ult passive in a teamfight. He fits the theme of the ultimate duelist pretty poorly, especially since other champions like Fiora do it but better.

Jax definetly needs a full VGU, but he needs it less than some other champs. I would expect another 4 to 5 years before Jax gets a full blown VGU. In the meantime, a small update like this would suffice.

AirKingNeo1 votes

See, I know you're completely wrong because of two reasons.

  • You believe we shouldn't have champions that just auto attack.

  • You said Jax "abuses" onhits. He's supposed to use them. That isn't abuse. (Using buzzwords to make your argument sound better. Reality is that it makes it sound worse.)

There's a reason why Jax doesn't need a VGU. His gameplay is mostly fine, only needing modernization. Having champions who just auto attack is a fine thing. Maybe you like complex champions like Yasuo and Riven. I like champion like Jax and Kayle, auto attacking. If you reworked Jax to not be an attack user, then you remove Jax's identity. He's a basic champion and is supposed to be. Not everything has to be complicated or should have to micromanage.

Jax builds Titanic into Trinity because he needs health so that his resistances from his ultimate hold value. Jax doesn't use his E for primarily a stun, he uses it so he has a protection ability (like most fighters). Jax also builds like that because he's a mid game champion, not the late game champion he's kinda supposed to be.

Doozku2 votes

I actually said the opposite of him abusing on-hit items. Because of how the game has evolved, he can't build mainly damage with on-hit items and instead has to build really tanky and go for a burst based build because of how he plays. He can't reach his late-game fantasy anymore because other champions do it better. To be clear, there's nothing wrong with champions that focus mainly on auto-attacks, but Jax desperately needs a little nuance to him. HIs passive, an attack speed steroid. His Q, a dash. His W, an auto attack reset. His E, an ability that blocks autos and then stuns. His ultimate, a bunch of resistances with a three hit passive stuck to it. That's it. There's nothing special in his kit at all. There's nothing he can do, that a champion like say Tryndamere or Master Yi can't do as well. His kit is basically a stat-check, think like Aatrox except even simpler. He doesn't have much ways for his opponents to outplay him, other than maybe dodging the stun on his E but that's it. Not really a high point of interactive gameplay.

Jax should be:

A master duelist. A mysterious character. A champion that has meaningful counterplay but also ways to outplay your opponent (not talking Yasuo levels here. Think like Sion or Galio) A champion that uses and abuses on hit items, and stays relatively squishy because he is a skirmisher. A guy who wacks you with a lamppost.

What he is:

A tanky diver. An eggplant. A completely point and click champ that doesn't have anything unique in his kit that warrants picking him over someone else who can do his job but better. A guy who wacks you with a lamppost.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Jax doesn't have a late game fantasy because Jax isn't actually a late game champion.

He's a basic fighter. I literally gave him a rework to give him the required tools to be a modern fighter while keeping the same kit. He can win lane, stun, and gapclose unlike Tryndamere and Yi. No shit he's hard to outplay, just like he is hard to outplay with. It's called a simple champion, something the game is lacking.

Jax is a duelist and a tanky diver, he's been. He shouldn't have much counterplay because he doesn't have any tools to counterplay his enemies either; simple champion. Sion rework failed because it had too much counterplay; it relies too heavily on the opponent being bad at the game. Hence why Sion hasn't been meta unless he's been grossly overtunned. He would be unique given that he's supposed to be a late game carry, contrasting Irelia who's an early game pick.

Doozku3 votes

Difference between simple champion and outdated champion. WW is a simple champion that relies mainly on auto-attacks, but he has a unique niche and gameplay fantasy.

Like you said, his theme is literally just basic fighter. That's it. There's nothing going on there and there's no reason to pick him over other fighters that do his job but better while also being more interesting to play.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Warwick and Jax have very similar kits, only huge difference is Warwick's W and Jax's Q (and their ults/passives).

You pick Jax for a tanky, late game, fighter. He's very lacking in the late game and is outclassed in the fighter.

Doozku3 votes

Warwick and Jax have very similar kits, only huge difference is Warwick's W and Jax's Q (and their ults/passives).

Except Warwick has reasons to be picked over Jax. He has his scent mechanic, which while easy to use is still unique and fun to play around. And his R is an awesome moment that gives you even more reasons to pick Warwick over other champions.

You pick Jax for a tanky, late game, fighter. He's very lacking in the late game and is outclassed in the fighter.

What I ask you, is why you would ever want to pick Jax over Kled, if Jax is a good tanky late game fighter. Kled has a better early game, a better mid game, a better late game, even more tank stats than Jax, even more damage than Jax, even more mobility than Jax, a passive which allows for quickly getting into the fight and outplaying your opponent, and the ability to initiate fights and get onto the backline easier than Jax.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Warwick is an early game champion and a Jungler. Jax isn't.

Jax would deal more damage than Kled, splitpush better, have a defensive ability, and have healing.

Doozku1 votes

Have you seen a Kled? They split push really good, deal a shit load of damage, and his passive is a much better defensive ability than Jax's E and R combined, on top of Kled having a shield on his R..

Auurun2 votes

Sion is one of the best if not the best rework so far. Every champion needs counterplay, otherwise they're unfun to play against. Reliable damage and CC is actually a problem in this game and is most of the time what breaks champions. Champions like this are not only a giant waste of potential but also the thing that cause balance problems. Most of the time champions like this are not allowed to be really strong because of their reliability and end up getting gutted. This game evolves and strays away from point and click dmg for sake of skill expression and better gameplay experience of opposing player. And that's a good thing since at this point it's pretty much known to be superior game design.

AirKingNeo1 votes

If Sion's rework is soooo good, then why does barely anyone play him? Ask yourself that. No one plays him because he relies on people being bad at the game, just like Blitzcrank. Difference is Blitz has reliable effects like his ult and his E; everything Sion does can be dodged.

Reliable damage has never been a problem in the game nor has it ever broke champions. Look at past season, who was broken and why? Jayce, who you can dodge some of his damage; Lucian, who has 3 dodgeable abilities; Fiora, who can be countered by standing near a wall; Camille, who had bloated numbers but a dodgeable E and W; Maokai, who had bloated numbers; Zac, who you can dodge every ability of; Jhin and Varus, who's abilities for damage could be dodged; Azir, Viktor, Syndra, Cassio, and Taliyah, who can have a lot of their damage dodged

Don't fucking say reliable damage is a balance issue. There's two champions that have been unbalanced who are reliable: Caitlyn and Kennen. Shockingly, their problems is a number's issue, rather than "doesn't have enough outplayability".

Shockly, some people don't like to play mechanically intensive champions. Other news, Jax has never been a balance issue.

Doozku2 votes

Master Yi has really reliable damage, and he's always been very weak because if he ever became strong he would be over-bearing. Aatrox has reliable damage, and his entire kit had to be gutted forever until Riot eventually decides to rework him. Annie has reliable damage, and she's not allowed to be good. Teemo has reliable damage, and if he's ever a good pick Riot will immediatly make sure to rectify that situation. Quinn has reliable damage, and she's absolutely cancerous to face for everyone. The reason why you don't see reliable damage champions be good is because they are left intentionally good. Jax hasn't been a design problem because his kit is so simple, its really difficult to fuck up. But remember when he built devourer? Saying he's never been a balance problem is a lie.

No one plays Sion because reworks for champions that were really shit tend not to get a big audience even after their rework. Yorick had his playrate multiply by ten after his rework, but its still really low. If Sion relies on your opponent being bad, then why is Sion played at all in high elos? Why can there be people like Tilterella who mains Sion and has 4 accounts in challenger?

Mechanically simple champions can still be interesting and have counterplay. Warwick is really fucking easy but he has mechanics that can be played around, is interactive, and has a unique niche. Galio is really fucking easy, but he has mechanics that can be played around, is interactive, and has a unique niche. You don't want simple champions, you just want brainless champs. If you really value simplicity so much, go play Dota where every character is point and click, and Melee carries can farm for 40 minutes before coming into a teamfight and 1v5ing when half of their abilities are passive effects that activate on your autos.

Auurun2 votes

Do you really say that Fiora, Jayce and Camille are unreliable? Most of them have like one dodgeable ability and their main damage sources are reliable. Camille basically don't want to use her most of the time unless at the end of the fight, cause she then loses her dps. Jayce can only miss he's overloaded Q. Fiora will pop her vitals cause of her stupid Q and E slow. Azir also is not unreliable, most of his damage comes from autoattacking, and his Q with a bunch of soldiers is easy to land, ult too if someone is close is near impossible to miss. Pretty much every champ you listed is somehow reliable with exception of Varus and Taliyah. Syndra misses everything and the just ult, Cassio land one quite easy skillshot and the simply EEEEEEE, Maokai uses W and then the rest of his spells. And yeah, some skillshots are over rewarding, but you know why? Cause they're unreliable. If not for existence of point and clicks they wouldn't need some much dmg and so on. Reliability is such a huge advantage that pro player won't really pick anything other unless it's OP. If there wasn't reliability we could finally treat champions equally and balance them properly. And look at Ryze that got gutted simply because of his root. Rek'Sai also was gutted, and now they trying to figure her out. And now look at Lee Sin that has just one skillshot that he can use quite often and dominates jungle almost always.

Reliability wasn't a problem at the beginning simply cause it was everywhere in every champion. But situation right now and fact how point and clicks have to be ridiculously weaker than skillshots only shows that reliability and skillshots can't really exist together, unless all champions had the same amount of skillshots and reliable spells. Either one or the other. And reason Lol goes in this directions is simple. It's better.

Oh the argument that I don't have to play this champions is bullshit. Maybe I don't have to play them, but i have to play against them at some point. That's where is the problem.

Sukishoo1 votes

Jax doesn't need a VGU

lel. He's on the Tier 2 list for VGUs. He's not a high contender yes but he does need one. His gameplay is pretty old, so just changing things around that already exist isn't really anything special that will give his character the depth and feel it needs. Some of his kit doesn't really have mechanics that fit together, and he really needs to be visually cleaned up as he looks pretty bad.

nachocheeseeeee2 votes

The walking eggplant needs a lil more depth in his kit like most divers as he is played like everyone else. Point and click abilities. Easy to learn and pick up. Jax however has a lil more depth than some other typical divers like Xin Zhao or Pantheon. But a lil less than Irelia, Lee Sin, Vi, and Wukong.

AirKingNeo1 votes

I gave him the necessary tools to be a modern fighter. Anything else and that strays away from the champion's design.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Only now do I realize this could go under Concepts and Creations and maybe not get lost in the sand of the Gameplay boards.

Ralanr3 votes

{quoted}

Only now do I realize this could go under Concepts and Creations and maybe not get lost in the sand salt of the Gameplay boards.

FTFY

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