So Taliyah and Illaoi

Woook3r·May 30, 2016·1 votes·1,561 views

On paper, these two champions are decent. However...they suck big dick in reality. It makes me laugh a little cause I remember the gameplay designer talking all this crap about game design theory. Sounded really good when he was saying it. Like he knew what he was talking about. Really smart seeming you know? Then we find out shes absolute garbage in game.

Whats the deal here? All of this game theory crafting went into making these two champions and they are garbage. Whats the problem? The theory used to design them or the rest of the game that Taliyah and Illaoi have to play in? Like. Maybe they are good designs but the rest of the game is so broken that you cant tell. Or maybe Zenon is a pretentious...guy and he talks big but clearly doesnt know shit about game design. You know.

Like all his ideas are wrong? Or he is right, but league is broken? Idk which.

9 Comments

BeldairMay 31, 20164 votes

Perhaps you are wrong and just aren't playing them right.

Woook3rMay 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Perhaps you are wrong and just aren't playing them right.

maybe....but a lot of ppl say illaoi is crap. Taliyah might be good. I guess its too soon to say. Azir was weak at first.

BeldairMay 31, 20161 votes

Ppl may say Ill is crap but those that truly play her reveal her true strength.

I play Ill Top, Support, and Jungle and find her to be fairly strong.

I easily took down a Fiora and Fizz in a 1v2 (post 6), a Fiora and Talon (post 6), and Fiora multiple times (pre and post 6) as Ill.

rescuedMay 31, 20163 votes

"Garbage" yet I went 7/1/13 on support Taliyah.

You just have to know how to play them.

Communist ToastMay 31, 20162 votes

to be fair, doing good on 1 match isn't enough to say anything.

even I would get a ton of kills on a champ I suck at once in a blue moon.

Milodic MellodiMay 31, 20163 votes

Taliyah is a Control Mage, it makes sense she doesn't have deal a lot of damage unless you play correctly. She's a beast in teamfights, her W punishes dashes, her E is a really awesome displacement tool and battle-starter, and her Ult is meant to isolate targets from those that can't travel over walls by abilities or Flash. Even then she's a new Champ, just give her some time. A few games in the PBE and even less time in the official game doesn't make a champion finished. Same with Illaoi. Her previous E, combined with her outrageous Life Steal, made her overpowered and so it was nerfed to balance her. She's still powerful and easily punishes her opponents, just not as effectively as when she was released.

Sightless66May 31, 20162 votes

Like all his ideas are wrong? Or he is right, but league is broken? Idk which.

I choose neither. Taliyah could easily just be underpowered. Release balance is a complete crapshoot, and making any conclusions about her design based on how strong she is right now is completely unwarranted. There is nothing about her design that necessitates that she be weak. It could easily be that with buffs she'll become a perfectly fine champion.

Seriously, you can't argue that the design is flawed just because her numbers are off on release. If that was our standard we'd have to condemn almost every champion that released.

That leaves Illaoi. Illaoi was acknowledged to be a design that would have trouble working out, because she was designed to have high unreliability without mobility or CC. That is, by intention, a risky design. Using that to argue that he's a bad designer or that the game is broken don't work. It does mean that the design will have to be very finely tuned, and they definitely did not come even close to hitting it on release. Illaoi is not an example of good design, but given that she was intended to fit a niche that historically has not worked in Lol, I think that is justifiable.

The only thing I think we can say about Zenon based on these champions is that he underestimates what unreliability means for a champion's power level. As far as design sins go, that one is pretty minor because it can be fixed with balance tuning post release.

BeldairMay 31, 20161 votes

I like the designs themselves...it is intriguing. Like Ill i love her lore and design.. True it is a bit unreliable, but you can see what he was trying to accomplish.

CerealBoxOfDoomMay 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

On paper, these two champions are decent. However...they suck big dick in reality. It makes me laugh a little cause I remember the gameplay designer talking all this crap about game design theory. Sounded really good when he was saying it. Like he knew what he was talking about. Really smart seeming you know? Then we find out shes absolute garbage in game.

Whats the deal here? All of this game theory crafting went into making these two champions and they are garbage. Whats the problem? The theory used to design them or the rest of the game that Taliyah and Illaoi have to play in? Like. Maybe they are good designs but the rest of the game is so broken that you cant tell. Or maybe Zenon is a pretentious...guy and he talks big but clearly doesnt know shit about game design. You know.

Like all his ideas are wrong? Or he is right, but league is broken? Idk which.

taliyah is getting a laning buff she probably doesnt "need"

Illaoi.. whats wrong with illaoi exactly