Spear of Shojin, a clear demonstration of AD favoritism

AquariusGine·May 18, 2018·37 votes·14,593 views

[New] Spear of Shojin [Fighter item planned 8.12 release - Context]

Recipe: [B. F. Sword + Kindlegem + 900g]
Total Cost: 3000g
    +65 Attack Damage
    +200 Health
    +10% Cooldown Reduction
    UNIQUE Passive: Reduce damage from champion attacks and abilities by 10 plus 15% of bonus attack damage.
    UNIQUE Passive: When Near at least 3 enemy champions, attack to gain Dragon Heart (90s cooldown).
    Dragon Heart: Block 200% more damage for 6s, refreshing on takedown.

My first reaction: What a strong item, I wish AP champions had such a good item.

AP gets some good items -> nerfed immediately

90 Comments

MalakMay 18, 201823 votes

you guys complaining about fighter items lul

I'm just sad we don't get any AP based fighter items

UltîmaMay 18, 20182 votes

I wish Kayle, Diana, Fizz, Eve and Ekko could have dedicated AP-fighter items. AP-fighters are a class that people have been begging for since season 3 and we're still stuck playing AP-burst assassins or on-hit builds with nothing in between.

SpecterVonBarenMay 18, 20182 votes

..... Kayle, Fizz, and Eve are not fighters. Ekko certainly has a kit like a fighter but he's tuned as an assassin at the moment. Why does no one ever bring up Rumble in these AP fighter discussions when he's THE best example of one?

Raid Boss MordeMay 18, 20182 votes

Isn't Mordekaiser a pretty good example of an AP fighter? At least he feels like a melee chanp, Rumble doesn't

SpecterVonBarenMay 18, 20182 votes

It's a difference of type. Rumble is a fighter like Renekton while Mordekaiser is a fighter like Darius.

3TWarriorMay 18, 20182 votes

actually, kayle is a fighter with a majority of her damage coming from auto attacks and a lot of them

fizz and eve, however, are an assassin and I suppose eve is a skirmisher? I can't remember how she got changed

LordGeovanniMay 18, 20181 votes

kayle is more of a marksmen at this point like azir. her cooldowns really are too low to incentivize her to build any type of build that resembles a fighter rather than a full ap mage

AirKingNeoMay 18, 20181 votes

Fighter build?

You mean AP marksmen?

LordGeovanniMay 19, 20181 votes

Like i said fighter build as if her E wasnt up all the time she would then have to go into melee range. hence needing defesnive items just like every other fighter that isnt yasou and fiora. I already said she is a marksmen and i am telling them what is nessicary for her to be considered a fighter.

AirKingNeoMay 19, 20181 votes

Kayle always gets 100% E uptime.

LordGeovanniMay 20, 20181 votes

Question do you read to understand or to respond?

AirKingNeoMay 20, 20181 votes

Your statement was fundamentally incorrect. There is no point where Kayle is building defenses to fight in melee range because she'll never be in it.

LordGeovanniMay 21, 20181 votes

I know that she will never be in melee range if you could read you would see 3TWarrior saying Kayle is a fighter and she technically is in that category or was in the past and so I then said that for her to be considered a Fighter properly she needs down time on her E and other spells and thus will needed to change her build to include defenses. And then you show up and say marksmen marksmen marksmen as if i hadnt already acknowledged that before you even showed up on this thread responding to me. So no my statement is not incorrect because you are picking our parts without understanding what is being talked about.

Sire HippingtonMay 18, 20185 votes

The big issue is that it has nothing that restrikts it to fighters. 65ad is a high enough value to be a decent damage item, so lategame it will be a strong defensive option on any high ad champ.

3TWarriorMay 18, 20181 votes

actually...even if you get 400 BONUS AD (which would be hard to do on anyone that could use it), it would come to a total of 72 damage removed while the passive is not active

cut that to 200 and it's only 42

it will provide some durability, but this is basically a replacement for Ninja Tabi

#well, I only got 3 hours of sleep so my math may be wonky here, but jhin is going to be a problem

Sire HippingtonMay 18, 20186 votes

42 post mitigation is still noticable endurance, and duering teamfigths it would be ~120, which is quite huge, especially against anyone who hits often with lowish damage rather than in big chunks. Vs Zyra for example, you'd cut her plant damage in half

LordGeovanniMay 18, 20182 votes

While i agree with it being very good im not really inclined to beleive it will do anything to zyra. maybe if she had low damage on her spells and

DeusVultMay 19, 20183 votes

also have to not that all of the damage reduction is simply a passive, so the champ that purchases Spear doesnt have to wait to use the triple damage reduction for the right time, it just happens automatically, and then it resets if they get a takedown.

Complete difference from the likes of item 3193 item 3190 or even item 3157

3TWarriorMay 18, 20184 votes

remember death's dance? this is likely to have the same problem, at least come late game, though it's in a much better spot with less AD and less immediate reductions

there is...however...a problem

Jhin : dut da da da!

i'm not sure how his passive works, but if any of it at all is bonus AD, this just became a nightmare, especially if they didn't fix the rageblade glitch XD

4 Step CadenceMay 18, 20181 votes

Spear of Shojhin, bitches!

3TWarriorMay 19, 20181 votes

my guess is they're going to have to tag it melee only after this

if he can still get 2k AD, 2k * 0.45 = 900 damage reduction XD

that basically means nothing in the game other than true damage could harm him XD

another solution is to give it a cap to the amount

Z3SleeperMay 19, 20181 votes

Idk if it's true but someone said they confirmed on PBE that it doesn't work with Jhin's passive.

3TWarriorMay 19, 20181 votes

hopefully that's true, but who knows what can happen with spaghetti code XD

Z3SleeperMay 19, 20182 votes

Tested it

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/WsuAUFzH-jhin-does-not-synergize-with-spear-like-people-are-worrying-about

https://imgur.com/a/zU0x9fo

3TWarriorMay 19, 20181 votes

guess the wiki or some of riot's terms need to be updated then as his passive is supposed to act as bonus AD

HäxelMay 19, 20181 votes

item second passive with 500 range means you need 3 enemies in 500 range to proc. at this point you are moslty probably already dead as an adc. first passive alone is not realy wort it to purchase this item.

FurriesAreHotMay 18, 20189 votes

Riot: makes item to help the struggling fighter/bruiser class

Boards: WTF riot where are my mage items?? AD Favoritism.

TempName54846May 18, 20184 votes

fighters and bruisers struggling ... i think you are late on that train buddy.

AirKingNeoMay 18, 20182 votes

there's 2 viable fighters named Irelia and Yasuo

tanks like galio still dominate pro right now

TempName54846May 19, 20183 votes

i hope that you are trolling fam

AirKingNeoMay 19, 20181 votes

any other bruisers being played in MSI?

TempName54846May 19, 20186 votes

i hope to see the day where camille isn't pick or ban in competitive.

AirKingNeoMay 19, 20182 votes

Camille uses Conqueror?

TempName54846May 19, 20184 votes

not really related to anything here but yes she does

AirKingNeoMay 19, 20181 votes

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/runes/camille/top/diamond it seems not

TempName54846May 19, 20183 votes

http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Camille

its a split between pta, comet and conq depending on the matchup, the reason pta is becoming more popular than conq again is because people are playing tanks less :^)

Daddy AntsMay 18, 20187 votes

They better make them melee only.

Tomoe GozenMay 18, 20184 votes

{quoted}

They better make them melee only.

Yea, my fear is that Jhin is going to be a massive threat with this item (and Zed too). They can just get a lot of AD and then suddenly blocking more and more damage that scales with their AD with each enemy attack + Tabi's (and Bone Plating) can actually reduce a lot of damage in return. And then Dragon Heart activated passive. Oh boy...

I honestly don't believe ranged champions need this, i'd much prefer Fighters having a solid "more AD-less HP option" than just having to rely on Sterak's and Black Cleaver for their only options, or simply die trying to get close to deal damage.

4 Step CadenceMay 18, 20182 votes

Why do you think we call it Spear of Shojhin?

LeetriMay 19, 20181 votes

It does not work that well with Jhin, as another user showed in a screenshot in a reply above.

ValyrianBladeMay 18, 20186 votes

With 300 AD, you're blocking 165 damage per attack/ability with the active. This item is bonkers.

3TWarriorMay 19, 20181 votes

getting bonus AD is harder but there are a few problems

the new Atma's for one

Jhin for the other

jhin with rageblade can get 2000 bonus AD or 900 damage reduction after attacking

ValyrianBladeMay 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

getting bonus AD is harder but there are a few problems

the new Atma's for one

Jhin for the other

jhin with rageblade can get 2000 bonus AD or 900 damage reduction after attacking

Jhin is clearly an absurd abuse case - the champion will need to be guttered for this item to exist. Either his survivability will be 0 until he gets this item, or his damage will be dumpstered to make up for his newly found defense.

I used 300 AD as an example, because I think that's a fairly reasonable amount to assume for a fighter that's getting 3 of the following items already, and now going to grab this new item:

item 3074 item 3748 item 3026 item 3053 item 3078 item 3071 item 3072 item 1412

Then consider champions like Master Yi, who also have options like Infinite Edge in their build.

Like 80AD, 80AD, 60AD, 65AD, and 15AD from runes would get you 300 bonus AD.

with Domination + Sorcery, you could get 29 AD between eyeball collection and the set bonus, and another 29 AD from gathering storm at 30min. That's 58 AD from runes.

Talk about making a lot of "damage-dealers" do no damage: All of your DPS mages probably do no damage if you're reducing every ability by 165 damage... Your on-hit / attack speed builds probably do no damage.

I just really hope the reduction is before the application of armor/MR...

3TWarriorMay 19, 20181 votes

well, not according to another post

it seems that his passive doesn't work as bonus AD

ValyrianBladeMay 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

well, not according to another post

it seems that his passive doesn't work as bonus AD

Well that's good to hear at least.

MrHaZeYoMay 18, 20185 votes

It's cause most tanks do magical damage with AP ratios.

Most bruisers are AD champions with AD ratios.

The exception being Diana and Sion.

Drakath2002May 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's cause most tanks do magical damage with AP ratios.

Most bruisers are AD champions with AD ratios.

The exception being Diana and Sion.

Easy solution to make tanks stop abusing a strong Mage item

make it Ranged only

WoadKethuntMay 18, 20182 votes

if you make it ranged only than kassadin fizz kat and diana cant use it

jocomotionMay 19, 20181 votes

Mages where doing decent, but built too similarly every game. So, Mages get a whole AP item rework with the three new 20% CDR “haste” items, item 3907 , item 3089 buffs, item 3165 becoming a more standard counter item, and multiple defensive AP items getting more AP slowly item 3157 item 3116 item 3102 .