So Riot will have nerf everyone else afterwards, and finally bring a balance to this stupid mess they made.
I am a mage main and 80% of the champions I play are mages. But I really hope 
make it impossible to lane against them.
And if Riot decides to leave mages in a shithole while only catering to botlane, then I will have a reason to leave LoL for good.
Nyarlathοtep33 votesSo Riot will have nerf everyone else afterwards
But they wont. Thats the problem.
Saianna1 votesOr they will, except ADCs who'd get buffs.
If what they say about history liking to repeat, then each huge nerfing to any class other than ADC will always be accompanied by ADC buffs soon after.
Rainfall14 votesyasuo and zed are goners they are already at 60% banrate anyway,the nutjobs in riot's playtesting team are just puking their nonsense to endorse changes to the game for LCS players nothing for the community or relevant to league of legends,
Vanjie12 votesI don't really hate the mana changes and I do not mind it. I am more upset that the community has been complaining about botlane and the impact ADC have in games for awhile now . . . but they prioritize mana changes on mages. So for 3 to 5 patches mages are going to be gated by mana changes and have their playrates effected, but ADC will be in the same spot they have been in: cheap itemization, crits doing too much damage, too much survive ability, better itemization, and too much damage all around. Why don't they hold off on the mana changes and wait for everything to come out at once? Nope. They won't do that.
Crispy0Snake11 votesIf they want to nerf waveclear why not just cap certain abilities' damage to minions like they (essentially) do in jungle. The changes riot has on the PBE server will just help mages that can waveclear in one or two abilities like Ekko or Taliyah but put other mages in the dumpster.
Why are they nerfing waveclear so much though? Was it ever a big problem?
Ayzev56 votesThey think mages are pushing mid assassins out of LCS and hope that this nerf will make them worth picking. But assassins generally have no utility and rely on snowballing, which is no good against a coordinated team, thus that's not actually happening. So in the end, the nerf is pointless.
AmazoX2 votesThey think mages are pushing mid assassins out of LCS and hope that this nerf will make them worth picking. But assassins generally have no utility and rely on snowballing, which is no good against a coordinated team, thus that's not actually happening. So in the end, the nerf is pointless.
You make it sound like Mages can't have a subpar laning phase and should be godly at it or otherwise they are garbage, you forget that they dominate during team fights.
Ayzev8 votesI see you skipped the "no utility", "rely on snowballing" and "coordinated team" parts. No idea where you got "they should be gods" from though.
Enderspider2 votesmain reason assassins are bad atm is that junglers can gank way more often due to catchup xp, making assassins have less lane pressure as well as bot towers falling really fast, causing grouping mid around 10 minutes but rito kinda doesnt see that :V
Grokmir4 votesIf they want to nerf waveclear why not just cap certain abilities' damage to minions like they (essentially) do in jungle. These changes will just help mages that can waveclear in one or two abilities like Ekko or Taliyah but put other mages in the dumpster.
Why are they nerfing waveclear so much though? Was it ever a big problem?
They are nerfing infinite waveclear. There's so much mana being thrown around that mages with good, safe waveclear can effectively stall out games for free without having to ever back.
Its the exact same problem we had back during the glory days of athene's grail.
Dope Solo8 votesHow many right clicks are being thrown around?
Grokmir4 votesHow many right clicks are being thrown around?
I assume you're making a comment on adc waveclear.
That's not relevant in any way to mage waveclear or balance, but yeah shiv's waveclear should be lowered. Shiv probably shouldn't crit. And honestly, the zeal items should all just be unique so adc's can't just mix and match whatever they want to cover all of their weaknesses.
And at least adc's have to get relatively close to the wave to clear it, opening them up to being engaged upon and throwing the game.
But just because same adc's also have balance issues, doesn't mean some mages don't as well.
Dark Nephthys14 votes[{quoted}](name=Grokmir the bold,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J0jInUfW,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-04-21T22:45:24.111+0000)
They are nerfing infinite waveclear. There's so much mana being thrown around that mages with good, safe waveclear can effectively stall out games for free without having to ever back.
Its the exact same problem we had back during the glory days of athene's grail.
It's funny though, a large amount of the community complain about games ending to quickly and snowballing is a massive problem in the game right now. So what do they do? They nerf mage's waveclear which makes stalling even harder and the game will become even more snowbally.
Grokmir2 votes[{quoted}](name=Dark Nephthys,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J0jInUfW,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2018-04-22T06:39:35.880+0000)
It's funny though, a large amount of the community complain about games ending to quickly and snowballing is a massive problem in the game right now. So what do they do? They nerf mage's waveclear which makes stalling even harder and the game will become even more snowbally.
Well the thing is, waveclear isn't enough to combat snowballing and extend games atm in solo queue. It can work if the losing team has a lot of waveclear, but most solo queue comps aren't made to do that.
However, something that a lot of people overlook is that these nerfs don't even affect stalling at all when you're at your inhib towers, until the enemy gets baron, which is supposed to counter waveclear comps anyways. Its trivial to clear a wave and go back for mana and make it back in time for the next wave.
What I'm trying to say is that the mana nerfs will likely not affect game time or snowballing at all. It'll just prevent the mage from perma clearing at their outer towers.
If you wanna lengthen games, you have to slow down scaling and objective taking, not non interactively avoid losing.
Dark Nephthys2 votes[{quoted}](name=Grokmir the bold,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J0jInUfW,comment-id=0001000100010000,timestamp=2018-04-22T16:57:41.137+0000)
Well the thing is, waveclear isn't enough to combat snowballing and extend games atm in solo queue. It can work if the losing team has a lot of waveclear, but most solo queue comps aren't made to do that.
However, something that a lot of people overlook is that these nerfs don't even affect stalling at all when you're at your inhib towers, until the enemy gets baron, which is supposed to counter waveclear comps anyways. Its trivial to clear a wave and go back for mana and make it back in time for the next wave.
What I'm trying to say is that the mana nerfs will likely not affect game time or snowballing at all. It'll just prevent the mage from perma clearing at their outer towers.
If you wanna lengthen games, you have to slow down scaling and objective taking, not non interactively avoid losing.
While that is true, but forcing mages to go back to base when they were waveclearing at the tier 1 tower is just going to make taking that tower even easier if the enemy mid laner is either a manaless champion or one that is less mana hungry. It'll be much harder for mages to stay and protect those towers now and while that itself might not feel like much will change with snowballing, but it opens up options for them to roam and impact the rest of the map sooner.
Kind of like how we had the meta of gank/camp bot and take their tower + dragon and roam. We now will have another option of just waveclear until the enemy mage has to back and take their tower first and roam bot/top. We might see more teleports Mid to counteract it though.
Venomar20 votesIf they want to nerf waveclear why not just cap certain abilities' damage to minions like they (essentially) do in jungle. The changes riot has on the PBE server will just help mages that can waveclear in one or two abilities like Ekko or Taliyah but put other mages in the dumpster.
Why are they nerfing waveclear so much though? Was it ever a big problem?
They're nerfing wave clear becuase it creates an "non interactive laning expirience". Nevermind all the damage, snowballing, jungle threat, and literally NECESSITY to be ready to run/TP bot at a moments notice to gank/counter gank with tower and dragon pretty much guaranteed with whoever wins that first ganagbang....
No, it's the wave clear that's the issue.
Nyaah2 votesWave clear = Lane priority
Whoever pushes the enemy in will have an easier time roaming bot or helping the jungler out. No one's idiotic enough to roam while there are literally 8 minions under their tower, unless the fight's at dragon or something. So wave clear is the issue.
Thilmer2 votesWave clear = Lane priority
Whoever pushes the enemy in will have an easier time roaming bot or helping the jungler out. No one's idiotic enough to roam while there are literally 8 minions under their tower, unless the fight's at dragon or something. So wave clear is the issue.
HAHAHAHA...
You literally said that having waveclear is important because it allows the mage to roam bot, the only lane that matters in the game rigth now. And you think the problem is waveclear? Impressive fail in logic reasoning here.
TeCoolMage2 votescap to monster damage tends to be % health and so high it's only to limit vs. dragon and baron. It's not actually used for clear speed especially in early game
Saianna2 votesWaveclear was just an excuse, not the real reason.
50CaliberHecate11 votesI'm honestly tired of how games are right now... it's like, land one combo and you insta-delete anyone, no matter what champion you are. With the exception of Support role, but even then you get off meta supports like Vel'koz and Brand surfing about to destroy enemy ADC. My point is, I'm just not having as much fun anymore cause I feel like I die almost instantly if I don't play any safe picks.
xelaker7 votesdamage creep is the root of all the problems imo
LilBadWitch9 votesI don't even see the point of changing it;
etc are already disgusting to play against in Solo-Q. They do everything that mages want to do as far as damage, but better.
They only lack in team utility such as stuns, shields, and safe wave-clear. Pro-players want that utility from their midlaners, so they pick team-combo champs, CC-champs, shield champs, etc.
& are worthless to Pro-players unless they're massively overtuned, and it'll always be that way. The day that pro-players continuously pick assassins in the midlane, is the day that assassins ruin solo-Q for everyone else by being broken.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Pro-players play more diverse champions like assassins, but if you have to severely damage the solo-Q experience to do it, then it's dumb.
Disembark3 votesHmm... so what you're saying is that Assassins do more damage than mages, but lack some of the range/utility/waveclear.
So what you're saying is that "balance" = mages are able to outperform Assassins in range, utility, waveclear AND damage (like they have been for multiple seasons). So then why would you pick Assassins? (hint: you don't and they've uber garbage until past few patches)
DracosKasu2 votesThe major issue with assassin isnt because they cant beat mage but the fact that most of them are AD scaling which is easy to counter with tank.
and are perfect example of this. Look at and 
perfrom well and are both assassin which rely on AP over AD.
Disembark2 votesAnother thing common with assassins that have been performing well: they’re not in the mid lane.
Cause mages have been shoving everyone out of the mid lane for ages, but mage mains are up in arms the second 5 mages aren’t sitting top of the win rates with 53%+ dominating the mid lane.
DracosKasu2 votesThis nerf will not help your mid assassin because they will still bring the same dmg if an adc which tank already focus AR to engage your team. Mage bring more into team fight while assassin eill alway be more effective to pick some who is out of position.
heroikc5 votesOne of the infinite paradoxes of League...not that I don't agree with you.
PhantomPrankster5 votes{quoted} only catering to botlane, then I will have a reason to leave LoL for good.
riot has been doing this for how long now?
ZephyrDrake4 voteswhy would they nerf everyone else instead of buffing the champions that are struggling due to the changes?
tophit1 votesThey've been doing that for a while now, it's the reason why ADC's got to where they are now: Assassin's and Tanks got a little stronger, ADC's got buffed, then Assassins and Tanks are nerfed.
I thought the original idea of ADC's was for DPS'ing towers, objectives and tanks, at the moment they destroy everything in a 1v1 if the other champion relies on a tricky skillshot or doesn't have 100-0 burst potential. At least if Riot stops buffing the weak and starts nerfing the strong, fights will go on long enough to make skill matter more and ADC's weaknesses will actually be more exploitable
A Superb Villain4 votesSo Riot will have nerf everyone else afterwards, and finally bring a balance to this stupid mess they made.
Saianna4 votesSo Riot will have nerf everyone else afterwards
Month after mage nerfing:
Rito: So we see Mages aren't really up to task anymore and have came with a solution. Rito: We have decided to nerf every class to match mages. Rito: It'll go as following: ADCs -3AD at level 18, Tanks -50armor and -5MR, Assassins -30AD/AP, Supports -15mana. Rito: Also... Rito: Every Mage below 80% winrate will be transformed into support Rito: That way we can distinguish good mages from best ones Rito: Oh also as for compensation buffs for ADC, we have decided to revert the 3AD nerf on ADC and instead give them 20% crit chance at level 1, 10AD, 50MR, And invulerability bubble for up to 45 minutes if they drop below 99%hp
Resolution4 votesI want it to hit the fan too; so Riot finally realizes they might actually want to play the game there trying to balance :/ or better yet ACTUALLY listen to the community that's dropping like flies each year.
...or better yet, fire the current balance team. There are so many great developers that could do such a better job with the game. It's sad to see how such a great game has gone so downhill over the years due to failures from the current team. I normally hold myself back on the harshness... but I've been here since 2011 - and every since 2015 most updates are beyond questionable at best.
Bot lane has been influencing the game the most for two years now, not mid.
OnanThaMan2 votesYea, part of me, the stupid part, hopes that these are the first in a series of nerfs aimed at toning everything down a bit so it's more like season three in terms of pace. The not stupid part of me is like, I really should stop playing. This just isn't rewarding anymore and they are nerfing one of the classes I enjoy most still.
Imperial Japan2 votesFiddlesticks ):
Sammystorm2 votesMana regen is better for laning phase. It makes it so mages can actually sustain better without items. This change will be a hit late game which honestly is fine.
Neo Cyrus3 votesWrong. The mana regen buffs don't even break even with the Doran's nerf. You get much LESS regen during the laning phase along with having less mana after you level up a few times. Yes, less regen and total mana during lane.
Sammystorm2 votesI disagree. We are going to be looking at 2.6 mana a second recharge. 1 from doran's and 1.6 from buffs. Up from old mana regen of 1.2 plus 50% with doran's. So 1.8 total. We get .8 mana more a second. The max mana pool breaks even at level 4 and you have less from level 5 on. Honestly that might be a bit early in the game but this is still majorly a late game change where people were having infinite mana. The other thing to point out is that the base mana regen will be better at all parts of the game. Item regen will be the same for mages but worse for some supports. So really what you are thinking will be bad is the base mana pool going down. Which I think will be fine. We will just have to wait and see for sure though.
Neo Cyrus1 votesI'm not even going to read your post, there is nothing to disagree with, mathematically you will have less regen at all stages, period. Your numbers are wrong and it's not even close.
Sammystorm2 votesWell thanks for not reading the post. My numbers are not wrong. You could go look them up your self and do simple math. Instead you would rather just not and circle jerk with everyone else. For the record base mana regen is better at every point in the game. Some items had their man regen nerfed but not all.
Neo Cyrus1 votesEdit: Either I'm blind or they edited their post. It's 5 mana per 5 seconds on the new Doran's, 1 per second. So what I wrote below is wrong.
It's +0.4 mana per second going from 1.2 to 1.6. So an increase of 2 per 5 seconds for most champions, new Doran's gives 1 per 5, bringing it up to 3 per 5 to match what old Doran's would have given at level 1 not including its +4 mana per minion kill passive.
Meaning it's even at lvl 1 not including +4 per minion, and less mana regen every level after 1. The mana doesn't break even at 4 either, you must be looking at Anivia or something which is an exception. Most champions lose 366 mana at lvl 18.
Sammystorm2 votesSo with mana changes we get 8 mana per 5 (1.6 x 5). Doran's will give 5 per 5. So combine them and we get 13 per 5. If you divide that by 5 you get 2.6 per 1. On live we get 6 mana per 5 (1.2 x 5). Doran's gives 50% mana regen which gives us an additional 3 per 5. Add them together we get 9 per 5 or 1.8 per 1. In terms of mana regen at level 1 we get 4 less per 5 or 0.8 less per 1.
Now regarding mana pools. Most mages got about 100 more mana in their max mana at level 1 and lost 25 mana per level. Which means that mages mana pools are larger through level 4 and then smaller from level 5 on.
The important take away is that mana regen as a whole is better and max mana as a whole is worse. So I am confused on where exactly my math was wrong. I admit that the way I phrased it could have been better.
Neo Cyrus1 votesEdit: Yeah, my bad, either I'm blind or they edited the post. I could have sworn it originally said 1 mana per 5.
The mana number I said should be correct though, 450 mana lost from leveling, but +84 at level one for a difference of 366.
Hawthorn Tree2 voteslol as a Talon onetrick I have to say tat the mage changes are batshit retarded. I'm not fucking afraid of mages. They can't do jack shit to me once I get my 
combo. I just oneshot the waves and get the hell out of Dodge to gank a side lane/in the jungle. There are a million reasons why I am in the shitter along with every other assassin, but mages ain't one of them.
BobaFlautist1 votesThey won't.
Until quite recently, Mana and Mana Regen items were a luxury.
That's the thing about Mana sustain nerfs - they feel like shit, but do very little to affect the overall power of the champion.
Meep Man1 votesAnd if Mages turn out to be fine?
Vekkna1 votes
meta finally!
