Vampirism should grant Omnivamp like Gunblade

Zero Skill Tank·Jun 24, 2016·64 votes·3,532 views

For most champions, it's already almost 100% equivalent of it.

For few champions that happen to have a damage source that doesn't proc it like mastery feels terrible, and the only other option in Ferocity is Natural Talent, what is pretty meh as well.

It's capped at 2.0%, so it shouldn't be too strong.

e. I just learned that stacked deck, which I used as an example, is an exception and it does proc spellvamp. There are still many other champion with on-hits that won't heal them from Vampirism, like , , . Also fix ur shit Rito :D

41 Comments

YuGiHoJun 24, 20164 votes

the 2 examples you used that dont benefit from Vampirisim instead benifit from natural talent i dont see the issue.

Zero Skill TankJun 24, 20169 votes

The issue is that new mastery system is supposed to give you a choice: you take this mastery, or that one. Those champions have no choice for their tier 3 ferocity mastery, they need to take natural talent, while an easy change could give them one.

It's not a big issue, admittedly. But I'd see this change as slight improvement of mastery system.

MarcsharkJun 24, 20162 votes

This idea that everything should be viable on everyone is ridiculous. Certain masteries will always serve some champions better than others. I don't see what your point is here it's not a big issue it's a non-issue.

Zero Skill TankJun 24, 20167 votes

Certain masteries will always be better, yes, but if with a simple change it could be made equally attractive to everyone, why not do it? It's not like there is an balance reason for why certain champions don't deserve to fully benefit from that 2 % healing.

1nciteJun 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Certain masteries will always be better, yes, but if with a simple change it could be made equally attractive to everyone, why not do it? It's not like there is an balance reason for why certain champions don't deserve to fully benefit from that 2 % healing.

i agree i think that the alternative simply needs to be made better.

BloodyTomponJun 24, 20163 votes

Not at the moment. Sustain is in general still on the high end and vamp is still the mastery taken in most cases. They're trying to reduce the amount it is taken so it wouldn't make sense to buff vampirism atm.

Zero Skill TankJun 24, 201616 votes

Champions that would benefit from it don't have any problematic sustain, maybe sans Irelia. Champions with big access to abusible sustain, like Yasuo or Graves, wouldn't benefit from this change at all - if they take Fervor they could heal on with it a bit, they can't take bloodlust they would heal a lot with.

It isn't really "buffing vampirism", it's making it equally strong for every champion.

dod21Jun 24, 20162 votes

Yes Please!

QjTHqo3RTqJun 24, 20162 votes

imo the buffs to natural talent make it a great choice for early game agro

Zero Skill TankJun 24, 20161 votes

Still, the goal of new mastery system is to give you a meaningful choice whenever possible. In case of champions with on-hits there is almost no choice for tier 3 ferocity mastery, and a small change could give them one.

I admit though this is a small improvement, not "Rito gimme dat or I quite the game" :D

QjTHqo3RTqJun 24, 20161 votes

I honestly dont care about any upgrades the masteries present before you start investing more than 12 into them, just give me bandit and biscuits, and i wont care much about anything else expect for my keystone

Samflash3Jun 24, 20162 votes

Tbh was thinking the same thing. Then again, im suspecting that it'll give a few champions more sustain than they were balanced around.

(If you reply this comment, ima list a few champions that'll abuse it more than was intended.

Zero Skill TankJun 24, 20164 votes

Please do. We're at boards, we're here to discuss stuff and ask for more Zed nerfs.

SteelflameJun 24, 20162 votes

Lol, on the topic of Zed, zed benefits from your change by letting his passive last hit booster heal him a bit.

My Waifu VanillaJun 25, 20161 votes

Eh it might barely be 2 health a last hit from the magic damage so it is meh at best. That being said making it omnivamp will not put anyone over the edge (it's 2%.....) so it's a SAFE change more than anything.

Samflash3Jun 24, 20161 votes

Spider form elise, warwick

In other words, those who build sunfire, cinderhulk, wits, Liandry's, thornmail.

Not saying its bad, but theres a chance that those two become better junglers than they are.

Zero Skill TankJun 24, 20161 votes

Spider form elise, warwick

Bringing effects of vamprisim on those champions up to what it does on others is exactly the point of this change. Why should a Warwick get less healing from masteries than I.e. Nocturne?

In other words, those who build sunfire, cinderhulk, wits, Liandry's, thornmail.

By the time you get those item, amount of healing becomes negligible. I.e. a Wits end user would heal for a bonus 0,8 health each basic attack. By the time you get gold for WE, it's not much at all.

Samflash3Jun 24, 20162 votes

Spider form elise- more health gained from her AP autos and her baby spiders. Plus increased healing from E. Not to mention jungle item magic damage from autos.

Warwick is a sustain champ so its meh.

Not saying its a bad idea, just saying these would abuse it more.

Zero Skill TankJun 24, 20161 votes

But that's the point - other jungler with ferocity get bonus 2% healing of everything, regardless of build-in or accessible sustain. Warwick and Elise getting more from this change that other champions is exactly what I hope for.

Samflash3Jun 24, 20162 votes

Alright i admit defeat.

Was still supporting this change so...

Zero Skill TankJun 24, 20161 votes

I'm not arguing with you, just wanted to explain myself better.

1nciteJun 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Spider form elise- more health gained from her AP autos and her baby spiders. Plus increased healing from E. Not to mention jungle item magic damage from autos.

Warwick is a sustain champ so its meh.

Not saying its a bad idea, just saying these would abuse it more.

ww i think has so much sustain that the 2% is literally going to go unnoticed. and besides he still has the same problems. elise tho would be a concern. but i think its at MINIMUM something that should be tried on PBE to see if it matters.

TotalJerkJun 24, 20162 votes

A sunfire buff?

Zero Skill TankJun 24, 20161 votes

Indeed, a very slight one though.

Ariel the CruelJun 24, 20161 votes

Vampirism is already a really strong ability early game (more so when compared to the alternative).

Zero Skill TankJun 24, 20161 votes

On champions that already work well with vampirism, this change would make almost no difference, maybe except Vayne, who kinda could use a buff anyways.

Ariel the CruelJun 24, 20161 votes

The perception of 2% lifesteal/spellvamp is very weak. But then ask this: why is Doren's blade strong with only 3% life steal? The low values may only amount to 2 or 3 HP per AA/Spell, but you get that amount when health values are in the low hundreds. Vampirism is strong in the same way that Vetren's scars is strong. It has a lot of strength early game when small values can have very large impacts.

And I'm not saying this change is good or bad. But it is a notable buff to an already strong mastery.

Zero Skill TankJun 24, 20162 votes

And I'm not saying this change is good or bad. But it is a notable buff to an already strong mastery.

Nope. It's only a buff on champions this mastery sucks on. Champions it's good on ATM - that is everyone sans non-physical damage on-hitters - are almost unaffected, as all their damage already procs it. I.e. for a Graves making it Omnivamp changes nothing - all his damage already procs it. It is not an overall buff, it's only equalizing it's power among champions.

It Hertz When IPJun 24, 20161 votes

Pretty sure there's a reason that it's hard to get omnivamp. Imagine if every champion could easily build items that allowed them to lifesteal from on-hit effects... it'd be a balancing nightmare.

Zero Skill TankJun 24, 20161 votes

The reason is that it was only added to game quite recently, with Gunblade rework.

I still can't see why would it be balancing nightmare. It's definitely easier to balance than ordinary lifesteal, as on-hits never crit and never reach crazy values, like basic attacks do.

Also, well, this is only 2%. It's not like difference between 15% omnivamp and 17% omnivamp will suddenly make barely-viable toothblade Teemo build super crazy OP FOTM, or make TF outsustain Morgana :D

67chromeJun 24, 20162 votes

I still can't see why would it be balancing nightmare. [Omnivamp]'s definitely easier to balance than ordinary lifesteal

It's not.

On glass-cannons Drain offers an interesting risk/reward dynamic. On tanky champions it offers tank'n'spank snooze-fests, or tons of reward for no risk.

Tanks and juggernauts are the true hybrid damage champions, and with 50% resistances turning 10 HP restored into effectively 20 more HP: tanks and especially juggernauts could break the game with omnivamp. Especially considering juggernauts tend to do carry-level damage as-is. They just suck at drain-tanking ATM because there damage is split between auto-attacks, abilities, physical, and magical damage with %HP and True damage occasionally thrown in the mix. That mixture has always made effects like life-steal and spell-vamp 50% as effective on Juggernauts as glass-cannons.

Life steal is easier to balance than Omnivamp as it's more restrictive and offers more interesting risk-reward dynamics.

All that said: 2% Omnivamp in a pretty small amount.

It's just not something you'd ever want to see on any item tanks and bulky fighters would consider, as that's where the balancing nightmare would be.

1nciteJun 28, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nhNvVre5,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-06-24T13:11:02.636+0000)

Pretty sure there's a reason that it's hard to get omnivamp. Imagine if every champion could easily build items that allowed them to lifesteal from on-hit effects... it'd be a balancing nightmare.

yes but 2% on its own is negligible its only real value is to slightly increase the numerical amount given when you have gunblade already. for example taking vampirism on an adc should be the most noticeable in the early game but if you take it without a doran blade to add extra to it the amount is unnoticed. generally lifesteal and spellvamp are not noticeable till about 5% MINIMUM realistically 7 or 8%. otherwise it just adds minimal lane sustain from attacking creeps. in addition as said many times by others only the few champs with on hit effects will even notice. and the on hit items are USUALLY only built on champs who already have on hit.

SpoofghoulJun 24, 20161 votes

yes this would be a good change and while they are at it they can merge lifesteal & spellvamp runes into omnivamp too

My Waifu VanillaJun 25, 20161 votes

Idk about that one. The numbers would have to be dropped in that case because a Graves with 7.5% Omnivamp out the door (+3% LS from DBlade and 2% from Vamp AND Warlord's) will just be annoying to deal with. After Death's Dance with this he would heal a large amount of his health bar from just Q (24.5% times 6 and divided by 3 for AoE us still about half of his Q damage on an entire creep wave which could be 200+ easily).

DealthJun 24, 20161 votes

Buff the mastery that's already taken the majority of the time?

Jesus Is My KingJun 24, 20161 votes

no. stop complaining about this

SnazzyTheMisterJun 24, 20161 votes

if natural talent was the stronger of the 2 masteries i could understand a push to make this change and smooth things out a bit, but currently natural talent is kinda fighting for a reason to be picked because a little sustain tends to be viewed as always better. the main niche of champions that kinda like taking natural talent are the hybrid on hit types, giving them a decent reason to pick up the other option doesn't really seem necessary.

Crowe StalkerJun 25, 20161 votes

Seconded, and actually... combine Spellvamp/Life Steal Quints and make them Omnivamp quints.

Reck3rDragonJun 25, 20161 votes

[deleted]

Dar RaksadaJun 25, 20161 votes

Grievous wounds works against lifesteal/spellvamp afaik.

Reck3rDragonJun 25, 20161 votes

Ay, you're right. It does actually affect all healing, including lifesteal. I thought that it would be an exception, because it is an on-hit effect, but I looked up on the wiki and suprisingly lifesteal does get reduced too. Sry, mb.