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Frozen Heart

AHarmlessTaco··9 votes·7,224 views

item 3110 I would buy this item a lot more if you dropped the armor a bit and introduced an active that made a very large aoe field that slows attack speed ~30% while enemies stand in it. I am even okay with losing some CDR. We don't HAVE to hit the CDR cap if it means having something impactful.

  1. 100 armor is useless or severely under-performing against some of THE premier attack speed / on-hit champions: Azir Kayle KogMaw Vayne Shyvana & Yasuo (50% armor shred on ult) Honorable mentions to Kaisa Varus

  2. If you aren't against one or more of the above champions, do you really need the item? Udyr Riven Fiora XinZhao Tryndamere would certainly be affected but do you really buy Frozen Heart against them? Maybe it would hurt Twitch Jinx Tristana, minus when Twitch is ulting? Dropping the armor and making it stat inefficient seems like a very fair trade off but maybe I am wrong. Entirely possible. MasterYi Olaf ignore the effects because of their ultimates.

  3. This would synergize very well with the slows from item 3143 item 3025 item 3800 .

  4. CDR alternatives : On tanks item 3194 item 3065 item 3001 item 3025 item 3800 item 3071 item 3083
    On supports item 3504 item 3174 item 3109 item 3222 item 3905 item 3050 Not to mention the 10% CDR from runes if needed.

  5. Give item 3009 a better niche. UNIQUE – SLOW RESIST: Reduces the effectiveness of slows by 25%. --> UNIQUE – SLOW RESIST: Reduces the effectiveness of slows and attack speed slows by 25%. Someone correct me if it already does this, I know Yi's slow immunity actually does make him immune to attack speed slows. . . I just really think that Frozen Heart needs to be an appealing and viable item in an environment where there are no other answers to high attack speed, true damage-dealing champions like Vayne Kayle and item 3124 exists.

Frozen Heart 2700g builds from Warden's Mail and Glacial Shroud, no change there. +100 armor --> 60 Armor +20% cooldown reduction --> =10% cooldown reduction +400 mana --> +300 mana UNIQUE PASSIVE AURA: Cripples nearby enemies' attack speed by 15% (700 range). This effect is disabled while the active is on cooldown. UNIQUE ACTIVE: Creates a icy zone for 4 seconds, crippling the attack speed of enemies who stand in the zone by 30% . The zone has a radius of 1000 - 1600 somewhere in there. Cooldown 5 minutes, 4 minutes, not really the point.

Even if the item were stat inefficient, I would buy this if it meant actually impacting a very fed aa-reliant champion, ESPECIALLY if it lingers after I die. Let that be its niche. Otherwise buy item 3143 item 3075.

I don't want to see attack speed champions gutted, but I do want to be able to purchase something to answer it that feels impactful.

28 Comments

Blaxonec2 votes

As a Blitz main I used to love item 3110 . It was great for team fights, it was the invisible threat for the enemy team. But for it to work you need to stay alive in the center of the skirmish which is hard now because of :

  1. Its not good for first or even second item.
  2. Its expensive for a support. (most of the games today end up before the support buys a 3th item)
  3. For this price there are better items currently.
  4. You are getting blown in 1-2-3 seconds if you are in the middle of the fight.

I am in for a mini rework. I like the idea of adding an active. You can make it support item with something like:

  1. Take off some armor
  2. Add some health
  3. Remove the passive and switch it with active like "You cast something with redemption radius - all allies receive + 10% AS, all enemies -10% AS " for 2-3 seconds.

Sounds interesting to me.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

I agree with pretty much all your points. Its just not something you can really work with nowadays. While I don't think granting attack speed to allies would be appropriate, having a large cast radius like Redemption and it leaving an aoe on the ground MIGHT be worth considering? I think centering the active around the user is a bit more, mmmm, in-line with tank ideology, but could still be an interesting thing to work with. -10% attack speed to enemies is definitely the wrong direction though considering the niche it fills.

I do agree that it is a bit expensive for a support item, but I'm not convinced it should be necessarily degraded to a support-tier item in terms of slot efficiency. I am not against it, but that would be a rather big decision. Warden's Mail 1000g and Glacial Shroud 900g + a 300g combine cost for the active would leave you with +60 armor, +250 mana and +10% cooldown reduction for 2200g (the price of Knight's Vow and of Locket), which I think would be reasonably appropriate. That would not leave it any room for a Ruby Crystal though, which a lot of people think it needs. Im not entirely sold on it needing health though.

Blaxonec1 votes

{quoted}

I agree with pretty much all your points. Its just not something you can really work with nowadays. While I don't think granting attack speed to allies would be appropriate, having a large cast radius like Redemption and it leaving an aoe on the ground MIGHT be worth considering? I think centering the active around the user is a bit more, mmmm, in-line with tank ideology, but could still be an interesting thing to work with. -10% attack speed to enemies is definitely the wrong direction though considering the niche it fills.

I do agree that it is a bit expensive for a support item, but I'm not convinced it should be necessarily degraded to a support-tier item in terms of slot efficiency. I am not against it, but that would be a rather big decision. Warden's Mail 1000g and Glacial Shroud 900g + a 300g combine cost for the active would leave you with +60 armor, +250 mana and +10% cooldown reduction for 2200g (the price of Knight's Vow and of Locket), which I think would be reasonably appropriate. That would not leave it any room for a Ruby Crystal though, which a lot of people think it needs. Im not entirely sold on it needing health though.

Its not necessarily to be degraded to a support-tier item but it has aura. Aura's were removed long time ago but somehow item 3110 passive remained in game. I just think that if its not a damage active then its some kind of enchant which both with auras somehow belong to support itemization.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

item 3190 had its aura removed because it was so valuable that it became a necessary purchase on supports in nearly 100% of games. All champions had their Magic Resistance modified to keep the stabilize the change. By contrast, item 3110 is intended to be a niche item. Also, item 3001 replaced Abyssal Scepter as it has a healthier spot in tank itemization than Scepter had in really any situation. In the vein of RIOT removing 'hidden power' on champions like Sona Taric though, I do think that Frozen Heart's aura is outdated. It remains as a niche item that likely is very powerful, but very under-appreciated.

CyanSolution2471 votes

another issue i have with it is that you cannot buy it until 3rd or 4th item because it gives no hp. overall i like your suggestions but even 200-300 hp would go a long way as with only armor it is a tough buy. Many of my issues could also apply to iceborn gauntlet its so tough to justify buying iceborn over tri-force.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

I think there are a lot of reasons you shouldn't buy it until 3rd or 4th item, and frankly I think that is okay. I am sure that people who play AD top laners dont want to see Frozen Heart being purchased in lane because it would promote uninteractiveness and mess up last hitting. I do agree though that the lack of health makes it a tougher buy in League's current environment though, but instead of adding health to it and messing with the build path / flavor of having Glacial Shroud instead of Kindlegem, I think carving a more distinct niche with just armor and attack speed shred would be more ideal. Like you said though, maybe just adding a Ruby Crystal and giving it 200 health would do a lot.

facemelter7101 votes

150mana 250hp* add Ruby to build no cost increase. That would be nice.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

I don't think that nerfing the mana would feel very good. There aren't that many mana options for top laners / tanks aside from Abyssal Mask. Granted, it would open it up to more champions and encourage people to buy Abyssal Mask, so I wouldnt really complain. I do think that adding a Ruby Crystal to the build path could be an appropriate change though.

Inkling Commando1 votes

so you're saying you'd buy it more if it was nerfed as opposed to being buffed? how strange.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Having the ability to create a large zone that reduces attack speed by 30% would be an extremely powerful effect under many circumstances, so much so that I do believe it would warrant a nerf with its current stats. Even so, I would be willing to give up stats just to have the effect in some niche situations.

Inkling Commando1 votes

dropped the armor a bit and introduced an active that made a very large aoe field that slows attack speed ~30% while enemies stand in it.

you basically described item 3025 just the effect is a passive with a super short cooldown.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

You are correct.

Inkling Commando1 votes

so then no reason to adjust Frozen Heart to do the exact same thing as an item that already does it.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Creating a movement slowing field and an attack speed slowing field are two VERY separate effects. One provides sticking power, while the other provides a team-oriented countermeasure to high attack speed based champions.

Also, see: item 3094 item 3087 item 3085

Whomp3r1 votes

i dont really see it as a nerf but a tweak to the item to make it better in some situations and worse in others.

Inkling Commando1 votes

honestly the aura is useless but everything else is good.

Whomp3r1 votes

the ranges on these passives and actives seem a little extreme however i would love to see more situational itemization from tanks aside from just buying the same thing nearly every game

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

The current range on Frozen Heart's aura is 700, I did not change that. It is to account for:

Twitch (with Spray and Pray Spray and Pray) 850 Kog'Maw (with rank 5 Bio-Arcane Barrage Bio-Arcane Barrage) 710 Jinx (with rank 5 Switcheroo! while using Switcheroo! Fishbones) 700 Kindred (with 16 Mark of the Kindred marks) 675 Tristana (with Draw a Bead Draw a Bead at level 18) 661 Caitlyn , Kindred (with 13 Mark of the Kindred marks) 650

The active range would be entirely adjustable as a balance lever, but I think at minimum, 1000 would be fairly appropriate place to start. If it proved too powerful or unintuitive, 700. Too weak, 1200.

Caitlyn FTW1 votes

[deleted]

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Correct, but in the past, no one liked when you couldn't kill tanks either. Given the pro scene's tendency to make much better use of tankyness due to better coordination, it has been a very common balancing lever to reduce the ability to tank damage and increase the ability to deal damage. Snowballing also plays a very large effect in this, as you can readily absorb reasonable damage if you are on par with most champions, but not if they are ahead in gold and items. Overall though I think a slight shift away from damage is needed.

NY641 votes

AOE attack speed reduction seems way too strong, maybe it would be better to have it be a point and click item that debuffs only 1 target, similar to blade of the ruined king’s active. In exchange it won’t have to lose as much stats.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

As it is, Frozen Heart already provides an AOE attack speed reduction within its aura. As strong as it may seem, having a single target attack speed slow would actually be more powerful than an aoe effect because that allows you to heavily focus the items power onto the highest threat in each game. What I mean is, reducing the attack speed of the support, mid lane mage, top laner tank, and jungler can be really underwhelming, so if the item were balanced around an AOE AS debuff, it might not look appealing in 95% of games.

HOWEVER, if you make the item balanced around a single target, you are ALWAYS going to want the item in every game because it will shut down the enemy ADC. Having an AOE effect still does this, but you don't get additional stats on top of it. See what I mean? Then you can have the niche of the item to be punishing heavy AA reliant teams, but perhaps not see the item every game.

Nevrankroaton1 votes

I honestly wonder sometime if it wouldn't be better to remove the aura and make it just an active, so it feel more attractive and a better counter item while offering better windows for ADC/AA reliant champion to fight against it.

Maybe lowering the armor or/and the mana so you reduce the price and it become a cool item for support/junglers too?

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

It very likely would be better to simply remove the aura, as it falls into RIOT's hidden power category IMO. Adding an active that provides more windowed opportunities and opening the item up to supports and junglers via a price/stat reduction are two things I am certainly not opposed to. At its core, considering its components and their costs/stats, Frozen Heart could look something like:

Warden's Mail 1000g and Glacial Shroud 900g + a 300g combine cost for +60 armor, +250 mana +10% cooldown reduction and the active for 2200g (the price of Knight's Vow and of Locket)

xDogMeatx1 votes

frozen heart practically gives your team 15% more tankyness vs dps auto attackers due to slowing them down. the armor adds a effective hp bar. instead of 2000 health you actually have 4000 effective health vs physical

AHarmlessTaco2 votes

The main takeaway from discussing Frozen Heart's high armor is that it is bypassed in a huge number of situations via armor shred item 3071 item 3035, magic on hit damage Kayle item 3124KogMaw and true damage Vayne KayleMasterYi. This, compounded with the fact that the item gives no health, means that you are ONLY increasing your effective health against physical damage and it just ends up putting you at a disadvantage in a lot of the situations where the item is supposed to shine.

In the current state of the game, it does not take very many shots for a late game ADC to kill someone with auto attacks. The 15% attack speed slow certainly reduces the damage output of AA reliant champions, but you still die so fast that it doesn't feel like it is doing anything. This puts it squarely in the category of hidden power that RIOT has tried to move away from over the years.

heroikc1 votes

Not sure if that is the solution, but Frozen heart is rather underwhelming...

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

I mean, I am not sure either. RIOT has historically tried to move away from hidden power in the forms of stat buffs and auras, so adding an active seems like the route to go. Retention of the passive, the stats, the zone size and duration, etc... are all changeable, but the idea is to shift the item towards having a highlight moment / visible effect that fulfills its intended purpose.

Of course, you could change the passive to something like, "being hit by 3 consecutive auto attacks triggers a pulse that slows attack speed of all enemy champions hit by 10% for 4 seconds, stacking up to 3 times" or just something more visual.

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