Riot: "Oh our 'buff' was really a nerf? Lets compensate by adding 10 damage."

Jesus is Savior·Apr 6, 2015·14 votes·1,172 views

Apparently 10 damage is going to help Evelynn stick to things better after having her W gutted, removing up to 80 flat movement speed from late-game teamfights.

Yeah 10 damage is totally awesome. Especially when you can't hit things with it. Totally fair compensation for the "buff" that turned out to be a "nerf".

I honestly have no idea what is wrong with the balance team this season, but it's getting pretty bad. Eve has a 1% pickrate. Why touch her at all if your "buffs" turn out to be "nerfs"? Just revert her and leave her alone.

30 Comments

Sailor MintApr 6, 20157 votes

On a 1.5 sec CD spell. That's 6.7DPS.

TehNACHOApr 6, 20151 votes

Not to mention, Magic Damage DPS. That shit is helpful, especially during the early game, in the Jungle.

Jesus is SaviorApr 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devi Freak Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nWzkoGud,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-04-06T20:07:24.185+0000)

On a 1.5 sec CD spell. That's 6.7DPS.

It will help her early jungle clear.

Her ganks and late-game teamfighting power are still going to be garbage. And if your ability to fight champions is trash, no amount of "slightly better jungle farming" is going to help you.

It's not even going to be 6.7 DPS against champions. It's going to be a buff of 10 flat damage, since only your first Q will hit, and then all the rest will miss as the enemy turns and runs away and you are unable to stick.

ZarxisApr 6, 20153 votes

Veigar At least Riot didn't make her into nothing more than a long-range Q spammer and then proceeded to ignore her.

Jesus is SaviorApr 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

At least Riot didn't make her into nothing more than a long-range Q spammer and then proceeded to ignore her.

I feel for the Veigar mains, I really do, but when it comes right down to it, the end-result is the same: I will no longer be playing her.

I mained Eve, and I mained her to climb to gold. Now when I play her, I get chased, and the enemy catches me and kills me, and all I can think is "I would have gotten away and survived with old Eve"

Or I will chase someone, and after my first Q all the rest will miss and the enemy will get away, and I will think "with old Eve I would have stuck to that target and killed it"

And after those 2 situations happened enough times I got fed up and decided I won't be playing her anymore. I will be better off learning to play a new jungler at a gold+ level.

RetillinApr 6, 20151 votes

I stopped playing Veigar, and I am sure I'll stop playing Poppy once the changes come. I enjoyed Cass before her rework, and now I just don't play her at all. There seems to be a general theme to the champs I stop playing.

Silents429Apr 7, 20153 votes

Apart from the fact you are just adding to the garbage pile of pointless bitching.

Meddler commented somewhere last week saying they are going to revert the W change and try a different approach to her.

And you know, Wait until the patch comes out before having a hissy fit over testing changes you idiot.

Jesus is SaviorApr 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Apart from the fact you are just adding to the garbage pile of pointless bitching.

Meddler commented somewhere last week saying they are going to revert the W change and try a different approach to her.

And you know, Wait until the patch comes out before having a hissy fit over testing changes you idiot.

I emailed Meddler after they reverted the revert on the PBE. His reply:

"I believe the damage buff's what we'll be doing in 5.07 at least. As far as bigger picture goals for Eve go I'll have to check to see if one of the Balance teams's got the time to take part in some forum discussion, it's not something I've got enough context on myself to answer all the valid questions that have been raised."

So no, I covered my bases. I can complain before the patch comes out.

Silents429Apr 7, 20151 votes

Other then the fact his reply implies more changes are coming so. Shut the hell up and just wait.

Jesus is SaviorApr 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Other then the fact his reply implies more changes are coming so. Shut the hell up and just wait.

More changes coming when? 6 months from now? We haven't even had the promised "discussion" started yet.

And even when we do, a "discussion" does not mean any further changes are guaranteed. They might just say "fuck it, 10 damage is fine" and then forget about her until season 6.

She has been unplayable for almost 2 weeks, and will be unplayable next patch as well, so even if changes DO come that fix her, we're looking at 2+ months of garbage-Eve, and that's at a MINIMUM.

Silents429Apr 7, 20151 votes

Wow. Your whole reply is summed up as "I WANT IT NOW!"

It has been what, a day or 2 since meddler commented on Eve? Despite him not being the only directly in charge of her changes. And you are sitting over here like a child whining because they haven't given her an overhaul yet.

She has been unplayable for almost 2 weeks

Suck it up, we have some champions who have it worse right now that haven't been changed in months.

Stop being a fucking sheep and letting the boards convince you the balance team is getting a kick out of frustrating players by abandoning champions, were in the middle of a meta shift, this is major and they need to see the results of all the changes before they can make a well adjusted change for her. And then we have just that, they might not even know what to do to her without making her broken, and need time. You can't expect them to run Eve through a machine and have changes done to her instantly.

Play someone else until then.

Jesus is SaviorApr 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Suck it up, we have some champions who have it worse right now that haven't been changed in months.

Even before her W got gutted, I would get verbally abused for picking her because of all her past nerfs in season 4. Some people even asked me why I would pick the "worst jungler in the game."

So excuse me if I don't believe you.

{quoted}

Play someone else until then.

I hit gold 5 the day before her nerfs, and immediately quit ranked after that. If they don't fix her, I won't play ranked at all for the rest of the season :)

Silents429Apr 7, 20151 votes

Even before her W got gutted, I would get verbally abused for picking her because of all her past nerfs in season 4. Some people even asked me why I would pick the "worst jungler in the game."

So excuse me if I don't believe you.

I don't know what you are choosing to believe but Urgot Poppy Yorick

Are having more issues fitting in and have for much longer then friggin Eve.

I hit gold 5 the day before her nerfs, and immediately quit ranked after that. If they don't fix her, I won't play ranked at all for the rest of the season :)

What do I care if you play or not? And given the track record of fixing junglers so far, you have no reason to assume they are going to leave her alone in her current state.

Jesus is SaviorApr 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't know what you are choosing to believe but

Are having more issues fitting in and have for much longer then friggin Eve.

And all of them have had a higher win-rate than Eve (except maybe pre-buff Urgot, I'm not sure what winrate he was sitting at before his buffs).

Because they suffer from out-dated kits. They didn't just get nerfed into oblivion and then forgotten for the rest of the season like Eve did in season 4.

Silents429Apr 7, 20151 votes

All 3 of them started strong only to be nerfed, and now none of them can recieve buffs at all (unlike eve) without breaking them.

So fuck your winrate, it doesn't mean jack, and wait for them to decide whats best for Eve.

Tis a nice dayApr 6, 20152 votes

Should they remove the 10 damage buff then and leave Eve as she is?

Jesus is SaviorApr 6, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tis a nice day,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nWzkoGud,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-04-06T20:18:08.806+0000)

Should they remove the 10 damage buff then and leave Eve as she is?

No, they should completely revert her to patch v5.1, removing the 10 damage buff, removing the spellhit W cooldown mechanic, removing her buffed late-game stealth, and adding back her W spellhit flat movement speed.

Because the buffed late-game stealth and spellhit CDR are both kinda useless.

Nameless VoiceApr 7, 20152 votes

I really like the buffed late-game stealth.

But I'd much rather have the flat movement speed buff than the CDR on W.

Jesus is SaviorApr 7, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nWzkoGud,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-04-07T00:14:07.252+0000)

I really like the buffed late-game stealth.

But I'd much rather have the flat movement speed buff than the CDR on W.

I like the late-game stealth too. But if we need to lose it to have the old W back.... I'd rather have the old W than the buffed stealth.

qetzelApr 7, 20152 votes

Or perhaps it is there to make her feel slightly better while they work on and test other more interesting, complicated changes. Just a thought. I mean, Meddler did say that they were going to try a different approach.

They could have just reverted it for a patch or two, but meh. At least they are trying. They could have just forgotten her completely.

Rinky DinkyApr 7, 20151 votes

Its not like thats 50+ more damage in most cases

Probably around 300 more damage in teamfights.

Jesus is SaviorApr 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Its not like thats 50+ more damage in most cases

Probably around 300 more damage in teamfights.

Except it's not 50+ more damage in most cases. It's 10. Because after your first Q hits and the enemy turns around and runs, all the rest of your Qs will miss. Eve can't stick to things with her new W. At all.

And in teamfights you kinda get CC'd and die, since you can't weave around skillshots and damage with 700+ movespeed after a kill like Eve could with her old W, so it's laughable in teamfights too.

Rinky DinkyApr 7, 20151 votes

Annnnnnnnnd you don't know what your talking about. Rip :/

Jesus is SaviorApr 7, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Annnnnnnnnd you don't know what your talking about. Rip :/

Remember when they nerfed her missile speed way back, like last season? Yeah.

Her Q misses more than it hits now because of her gutted W (because she can't move fast enough to keep up with her enemies).

It's also kind of funny that someone with ZERO ranked Eve games is going to tell someone with 457 ranked Eve games over 3 seasons that they "don't know what they are talking about" lmao. Maybe don't comment if you don't even play the champ?

AbyssphereApr 7, 20151 votes

Honestly I think this buff needed to happen. The W stuff is incredibly stupid and I really do hope it gets reverted, but the main reason I find the W stuff stupid is that it does nothing to help the biggest problem she faces in season 5. That problem is clearing the jungle, which she cannot do for shit.

It's the same with Elise. Her and Evelynn have these massive, glaringly obvious problems and Riot gives them completely irrelevant buffs/changes that solve nothing and only exist so that they can claim that they're trying.

Evelynn can't clear the jungle? Change her mana regen, give her on-hit effects on her E, buff her stealth late game, give her a weird cooldown mechanic on her W but remove her stickiness because of it. Elise can't deal damage or tank for shit? Increase her damage to jungle monsters, buff her spider form movement speed.

They've been dancing around the problem all season with these two and the buff to Hate Spikes is the first buff that either of them has gotten that actually helps them. With Hate Spikes getting its damage buffed her early jungle clear should improve a fair bit, and that's what she needs The W change will still suck, but I'd be pretty happy that they're FINALLY giving her something close to what she actually needs after so much irrelevant crap being chucked at her over the last few months. And if she's still crap after this they might revert the W change after all. Then you might have a playable champion, finally.

Jesus is SaviorApr 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

is that it does nothing to help the biggest problem she faces in season 5. That problem is clearing the jungle, which she cannot do for shit.

Her early jungle clear isn't even that bad if you know how to kite the monsters.

And that 10 damage they added doesn't actually solve the biggest problem with her clear: she has no form of damage mitigation built into her kit. Even junglers without sustain (eg: Vi) usually have some form of shield built into their kit. The only other jungler I can think of with no heals or shields is Amumu, but even he at least has a stun, which mitigates a small amount of damage. Eve has trailblazer, krug buff, and... kiting. lol

PerishSoftlyApr 7, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=UdyrWwYi Jg ONLY,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nWzkoGud,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-04-07T02:05:07.813+0000)

The only other jungler I can think of with no heals or shields is Amumu, but even he at least has a stun, which mitigates a small amount of damage.

I'd like to point out that Amumu has passive damage reduction on his E, which when combined with the heal from machete upgrade pretty much negates the damage from small monsters and the same skill procs more when he takes that reduced damage, letting you kill the small monsters faster and in effect reducing damage taken further.

Shyvana Has neither a heal, nor a shield. She does however have incredibly fast clear speed with her Burnout, and gains passive armor from her innate.

Sejuani Has no heal and no shield, but also has incredible AoE damage in her basic skills, and a form of damage mitigation in her Frost buff

Rammus Also doesn't have shields or heals. Instead he has his DBC that greatly decreases damage taken and returns damage to attackers, further lowering the damage they can do before they die.

Jesus is SaviorApr 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'd like to point out that Amumu has passive damage reduction on his E, which when combined with the heal from machete upgrade pretty much negates the damage from small monsters and the same skill procs more when he takes that reduced damage, letting you kill the small monsters faster and in effect reducing damage taken further.

Has neither a heal, nor a shield. She does however have incredibly fast clear speed with her Burnout, and gains passive armor from her innate.

Has no heal and no shield, but also has incredible AoE damage in her basic skills, and a form of damage mitigation in her Frost buff

Also doesn't have shields or heals. Instead he has his DBC that greatly decreases damage taken and returns damage to attackers, further lowering the damage they can do before they die.

Totally forgot Amumu had passive damage reduction lmao.

Solidair3Apr 7, 20151 votes

Meddler has said that they are still looking at ways to get her back on the saddle. the movement speed thing they tested this time probably just didn't work out. So they'll be doing something else, this damage addition is probably something they're just throwing at Eve until they can get something better out to her.

Be patient, it worked for tank junglers.

Jesus is SaviorApr 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Meddler has said that they are still looking at ways to get her back on the saddle. the movement speed thing they tested this time probably just didn't work out. So they'll be doing something else, this damage addition is probably something they're just throwing at Eve until they can get something better out to her.

Be patient, it worked for tank junglers.

The movement speed thing she has had since season 3 when I started playing the game "didn't work out"?

They had absolutely no reason to remove the revert from the PBE