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I like how Riot has effectively killed the support role, and still hasn't even addressed the issue.

Jesus is Savior··260 votes·13,912 views

(Note: I posted this on GD like a month ago, which doesn't appear on the front page. I'm reposting it here to get a red response. Why? Because, basically, I called it: compared to a month ago, queue times for non-support roles are MUCH MUCH longer)

What do I mean?

Before dynamic queue I would play jungle 90% of the time and support 10% of the time.

Day 1 of dynamic queue: I go jungle/support and get support 90% of the time.

Day 2 and onward: I go jungle/mid and take Eve jungle or mid.

So I haven't played support in over a month (note: now over 2 months), and at this point I'm good enough at mid that I will never play support again, as I have no desire to relearn the role even if they fix their broken system.

Let me rephrase: before dynamic queue I was a potential support player. Now I will never play support again. I have entirely removed myself from the potential support pool of players.

And in the long run, as more and more people follow suit, that means longer queue times for everyone on average (due to Riot's attempt to shorten them in the short-term). (note: see? called it)

Link to old thread: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/jzIUoATk-i-like-how-riot-has-effectively-killed-the-support-role-and-still-hasnt-even-addressed-the-issue

425 Comments

Duke Anax119 votes

I am a support main and even I have to remove myself from the support pool or I never get to play anything else.

In the first few weeks, putting Jungle/Support seemed to give a nice ratio of 2/8 or so, but now even that doesn't work.

An algorithm that NEVER gets you your primary role is definitely broken.

Embalancer14 votes

no it's just the fact the pool for supports is so much smaller than it is for jungler. Did you never go on team builder? most of the time you were hanging around waiting for someone to be a support

3TWarrior7 votes

most of the time in team builder, supports and carries left for no reason

Partholonian2 votes

I didn't leave that often, but sometimes I left teams that looked like Yasuo top MasterYi jungle Zed mid. I didn't say why I was leaving though so I'm sure they thought it was "for no reason".

Stephenizgod85 votes

The issue with Support is not Dynamic Que, the problem is deeper than that.

Why does no one want to play Support?

Well my guess as a Support main who has quit Support recently is that, as a Support you work with less but have one of the biggest jobs in the game. You are a lower level than everyone else, you have far less gold, your items are almost always the same across all Supports, and you're basically a babysitter for your ADC but you get all the blame but none of the credit.

The reason I quit Support is because I couldn't carry my team, if my ADC failed I was gold starved, so I go Mid and try to catch up by helping them. If the Mid fails, I am screwed because I don't have the gold for the items my team needs. I have a lot more impact on teamfights by playing a Tanky Top lane or a Mage Mid lane and my success in lane is entirely on me.

Lovely Pants7 votes

There are issues with support that can be discussed, but this confounds the issue at hand.

The immediate problem is straightforward. The system should accommodate players' intentions and expectations. If it's impossible for the new queue system to allow for this, it really ought to be considered to weigh different options forward.

Jesus is Savior27 votes

{quoted}

The issue with Support is not Dynamic Que, the problem is deeper than that.

I didn't mind playing support in the 10% of my games I couldn't jungle. I can carry with Janna.....

But I don't want to play Janna in 99% of my games. Even if she wasn't boring as fuck, I can carry better with Eve. So now I take Eve mid.

MalzaharAnyLane5 votes

Riot has spent five straight years trying to answer that question, if they haven't by now they probably aren't gonna.

WadeWilson133720 votes

Supports can carry games, and do quite well at it in fact. But at the same time, there is no role that feels as powerless as the support does in a loss.

Stephenizgod7 votes

They can but not if your team has been feeding non-stop, at least if I go to Top or Mid i have control over whether I feed or not.

Serika Zero7 votes

to be fair, even if you are top or mid. If the other 2 laners have feed lets say 5 kills in total (1 the solo laner, twice each of the bot laners) you will have a very very difficult time of winning that game. If they feed even more, its a lost game.

Very few champions can carry 1v5 games if their other roles are losing across the board. The only elos you could do that are probably bronze and silver with champions like Master Yi, Fiora, Xin etc. Champions which are tanky, with good scaling and a lot of damage. Even then, you need the enemy team to be dumb enough and not end the game before you are able to 1v5 them.

TroyTheUnconquer7 votes

Illaoi can do it to

i've literally been asked "why do you into a obvious 1v5" because i had died the first time i tried it

then i got spirit visage

QUADRA KILL

"you were saying?"

crippler3813 votes

did someone actually try to fight in illaoi ultimate?

Tobias Brackner12 votes

Illaoi can do if if they have 0 respect for Illaoi's dmg.

Sammystorm5 votes

The problem is support though. Jungle is in a similar boat as support in working with less but having one of the most important jobs. Yet jungler is much much much more popular then support.

Stephenizgod6 votes

Jungle has far more resources available to them than Support does. When you Jungle, your income is almost entirely based on how good you are as a Jungler. You also have available to you some of the current strongest items in the game, at least in SoloQ. Jungler can also carry just by being present in other lanes, turning any lane into a 2v1 or 3v2 is incredibly useful even if you don't get a kill.

Sammystorm3 votes

Support can just show up in other lanes and have similar impact. The main difference between support and jungle is the guaranteed source of income. That however can be hugely impacted by ganks or any attempt at pressure. Support like jungle, has a much higher consequence in terms of levels and gold for fucking up a play or even attempting one. The other roles don't lose nearly as much for something as simple as attempting a play.

Mast3rShake6 votes

Lol, yeah, leave a bronze or silver adc alone in a 2v1 lane and see what happens. Many of them can barely handle farming in a 2v2 lane, you think a 2v1 lane will land promising results?

Solitair6 votes

If my observation is correct, jungling seems to spike or wane in popularity by the laws of fotm picks and strong items. During some patch cycles, when there's nothing particularly special about or sought after in the jungle by the current meta, jungling role seems to become less desired. There were some patch cycles when I could have my jungle almost completely undisputed. Earlier in the season/preseason was an example of such a time. Then suddenly, runic echoes, and I don't get to see my jungle again for a long time. Yes, jungler potentially works with less than other laners, but not with as little as a support gets. Junglers are also more likely than supports to have raw power. It really helps when you need to carry a game. There's also the tremendous amount of influence that a jungler can potentially exert over the state of the lanes and objectives. This is particularly attractive to people when they feel they have an edge in the way of jungling champions and items that are strong in the meta.

cystium37 votes

As a support main i'm starting to lose interest in it as well. i will try to point out some ( possible) issues.

  • only support I queue as support / mid. I have climbed from silver 3 to plat V playing nothing but support. at this point i'm not sure if i'm still capable of playing mid properly in my elo due to lack of practice.

  • Gold income Supports have the lowest income and as a result can't buy a lot of items. this is further enhanced by the fact that the first 2,5 k gold a support earns is already allocated to simply being able to properly support. (800 sightstone, 850 for t2 Gold item and 900 for the cheapest boots). skipping out or delaying on any of those simply means you are hurting your ability to support. it is only after you purchased all of these items that a support can start thinking about what they want to buy.

  • limited itemisation. supports have to be realistic in their goals when buying items, there is a great difference between what a support want's to buy and what they usually end up buying. supports often opt for cheap items with a decent impact like aegis / locket / banner. not just because it has an impact but because it has a decent powercurve Aegis is a nice middle step so even if you don't get to finish the final product it stil feels useful. you also don't have to save up a ton to buy a single component. occasionally I think rylai's would offer some nice extra peel but i simply cant buy it most of the time. it's expensive, it offers no support value before combining, and saving up for a NLR as a support often doesn't feel justifiable.

  • Experience with the removal of the experience talent, supports are falling more behind in levels than before. support task do not give any experience yet they do require you to miss out on a lot of it, they are actually punished for doing their job correctly. being level 9 when everyone around you is 12/13 is by no means enjoyable. supports are also more dependant on those levels than any other role due to their lower gold income.

JVP158 votes

You hit the nail on its head perfectly. I really feel like Sightstone should give you gold when you are around someone with a higher amount of gold than you have. This way, you can somewhat keep up in gold. The same should be done for the items like FoTM and FQC, except with experience. When you are around someone who is a higher level, you gain experience. This should solve a few problems, but the underlying fact that support is reliant on getting a good ADC makes is undesirable, and its overall desirability is what needs to be worked on.

Brascus10 votes

I'm not a support main, but I really enjoy doing it once in a while, would it be impossible to give supports their version of item 1041 summoner 11 that cater to the exp/gold problems they have without letting other roles exploit it?

So you know buffing things like item 3302 but have it tied to a summoners? Maybe a new one?

Or maybe what if all gold items just shared cs, so supports cs instead of adc's?

Aeró29 votes

What do you mean support is killed. I LOVE being 5 levels under my ADC and having to live on food-stamps

Invariel2 votes

I love it even more when my ADC takes my food stamps away and last hits the pink ward I've just hit four times.

bill843 votes

Or when they take the cannons.

chipndip126 votes

They need a mastery geared towards supporting that can give exp compensation so supports don't end up five levels behind, for starters (like we used to have). There's times where I'm level 9, my opponent support is level 9, and our carries are like LEVEL TWELVE.

Mama Soraka6 votes

I end most support matches at level 11 with my opponent either same or lower if they're losing, with both teams ranging from 14-16 depending on lane and level of fed. Supports used to be built around scaling the hardest through level, not gold, but now we don't even have that. How are we supposed to ever unlock our higher base skills when we have no experience?

I really feel like you'll only get to max one skill nowadays as a support so you better pick somebody like Janna who's one skill gives your carry a free BF sword and the rest is utility :/

WadeWilson13376 votes

This is part of the reason the support meta has shifted so heavily. Alistar and Janna are arguably the two best supports in the game because once you hit level 6, thats basically all you need to be useful. Alistar's ult negates him having such low base stats because he is so underleveled and Janna can just peel you all day so her squishiness is null and void.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Gragas Kayle

It Hertz When IP2 votes

If you want a tank support with peel, there are plenty of other choices that would do far better.

My Waifu Vanilla3 votes

Braum TahmKench Trundle Poppy

StoryDuck3 votes

Reaching level 11 is often a key mark for supports but as you say we end games at 11 now. The way EXP is handled for supports is absolutely awful at this time.

4th Chiming Lamb22 votes

I like playing Support. It's like watching after a child <3 "Morgana Come on, Lucian. it's time to make you into my little killing machine. :)"

MalzaharAnyLane20 votes

Queueing up now, and yeah I've definitely noticed it. If I don't go fill or support, my queue times go between 2 and 20 minutes. My MMR is not yet high enough to warrant a 20 minute queue time on any position. Ever. Period.

For laughs I went into ranked with 'fill' on and played only Malzahar, had to give up since I was only ever playing support. So not only was it not fun, but people would throw games either out of ignorance or sheer incompetence and then blame the support. Giving up and playing a role that was not support to get LP back just results in queue times going through the roof.

While there's other issues there, the queue times are what did it in, basically no one is playing support other than mains.

Jasiwel16 votes

Reasons why support is the least liked role when not with a premade:

1.) If your partner dies in lane, you're probably blamed for it.

2.) You're expected to die for everyone else if a situation goes poorly.

3.) You're expected to make every corner of the map visible no matter the risk.

4.) If your teammates die from facechecking a bush then it's your fault for not warding it.

5.) If your team dies from a bad team fight then you can't clear minion waves for shit.

6.) If you're playing Thresh/Blitzcrank/Nautilus/etc and don't land hooks/grabs like you're MadLife then your teammates will blame you for losing the game no matter how hard they fed.

7.) You often have to expose yourself to unseen danger just trying to ward, which while everyone is susceptible to this fact, it's more frustrating when factoring in pressure from #3-4.

And the list goes on. That said, a support's role is to ensure a team has a decent setup to avoid unnecessary casualties. Supports should have a Sightstone, should be peeling for their carries, and should be landing their abilities within a feasible realm of expectations.

But the fact that a team often uses their Support as a scapegoat as much as the Jungler is a community-wide issue that needs to be resolved.

Solitair15 votes

On top of that, people have this idea that support is the easiest role. People constantly insult supports with the idea that their job is just so easy. So "easy that its why girls pick it to get carried by their boyfriends". Seriously community, what the absolute flying fuck? Assuming responsibility for a lane partner you can't even trust, playing vision vs vision with enemy support, being in the right place at the right time, being the one to analyze the team vs team dynamics to figure out exactly how you need to use your skills to win the fight and then having to carry that out perfectly, and being completely helpless if your team fails you because you can only carry by proxy--none of this is easy. If it was, more people would fucking want to do it. Few do, and then people continue to insult those that do.

LiveYiOrDieHard10 votes

Yup I used to play support fairly often, but not anymore. After 20 games in a row of support just because I had fill as my secondary, I no longer use the fill or support options.

Lt Streko9 votes

Totally agree with this point. I used to be a Mid main who would support as a 'secondary'. But now, with dynamic queue, if I even think about putting in support as my secondary, that's all I'll get, so I stopped supporting all together, and picked top, which I now split 50/50 with mid. Not to mention my queue times are MUCH longer now than what they used to be.

Riot should introduce some sort of system where the primary role is always picked for AT LEAST 50% of their recently played games, regardless of what their secondary option is.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

This makes no sense to me. Why not just pick supp as secondary, and if you aren't feeling supp, then don't pick supp as secondary?

Axis the Dragon5 votes

For many that I've seen, it's that their only two roles are x/support and they're likely not very good at the other 3

But when you put support, whether primary or secondary, you're never (or almost never) gonna get the other role you locked in for. Some people don't mind it, but many of them aren't support mains, they just happen to know support as their second best role

If they're forced to always play something they don't always enjoy, they'll lose interest and eventually they'll stop queuing as primary/secondary support and learn a new role

And that becomes a vicious cycle where more and more people will do it, and queue times will get longer and longer.

That's what i understand from the whole ordeal, anyway.

Pledgie8 votes

OKAY im gonna post this post that ive wanted to post and i have posted on every popular support post. SIGHTSTONE UPGRADES SHOULD INCREASE MAX WARD LIMIT TO 4, BECAUSE YOU HAVE 4 CHARGES

2 Weezy Baby7 votes

[deleted]

Jesus is Savior54 votes

[{quoted}](name=2 Weezy Baby,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y4ZdTkqb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-03-20T16:32:06.246+0000)

Supports are still live and well, you're just lacking some brain cells.

Support mains, yes.

But the entire pool of "support as a backup role" has been killed.

Riley xD4 votes

[{quoted}](name=That Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y4ZdTkqb,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-03-20T16:38:59.103+0000)

Support mains, yes.

But the entire pool of "support as a backup role" has been killed.

I'm a mid main. I pick mid primary, support secondary. Think I get support 9/10 games or something. You can check my ranked match history for the proof of this (the ADC games I was with a group).

I don't want to play support every game, or even the majority of the games, or I'd have picked it as primary. Now my options are either I take a hit for myself and play support every game, or I take a hit and not play a role I enjoy occasionally and worsen the problem for remaining support secondaries.

Sucks.

TheLittlestLulu38 votes

[{quoted}](name=2 Weezy Baby,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y4ZdTkqb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-03-20T16:32:06.246+0000)

Supports are still live and well, you're just lacking some brain cells.

Seems like you didn't really read the thread.

Dengeden3 votes

Can't you queue up for mid/jgl half the time and fill the other half? I really don't see the problem, it's the player's choice to disdain the support role. Nothing Rito can do.

Jesus is Savior7 votes

{quoted}

Can't you queue up for mid/jgl half the time and fill the other half? I really don't see the problem, it's the player's choice to disdain the support role. Nothing Rito can do.

I pick my roles based on what it going to make me win more games.

I am better at jungle than I am at support, and I am better at support than I am at mid.

So if I pick "support" for half my games, I am intentionally making it harder to win and dropping my ELO because I have a 0% chance at actually jungling. So I'm not going to do that.

DELI MEATS4 votes

This. You can actually change what roles you select between games. I'm a support main, but I don't always go for it. When I decide I don't want to support, I pick two other roles. Not that hard guys.

SlampieceHawke1 votes

I don't think it's dead at all, but I guess we all may view "support" differently? I've happily been qued in support all day today and my typical support Karma game has me slaying the bot lane. My adc may call me out for stealing kills every now and then, but I just tell him "that's right and i'll swoop in and steal your girl too."

Support is fun! Ezreal game Ezreal life

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