Not enough damage on Veigar's Q to justify it being an unreliable source of damage

Actually it does a great deal of damage, I know it has average base power and only a 60% AP ratio, but Veigar get's a LOT of AP. By midgame I'd guess it does around the equivalent of an ability with an 80% ratio on somebody else. The worst thing about Veigar in his current state is his early game. His late game isn't what it used to be either, but it's right on the edge of acceptable.

With a horrible early game and a mediocre late game he's not in a great spot right now. However, his extremely late game (like 40-45 minutes in) is amazing if he's been farming throughout the match.. and the match lasts that long. What he needs is to not be quite so squishy early on, or maybe some form of sustain for lane (like a mini Morgana passive).

His Q already contains a ridiculous portion of his power budget. It actually does quite a bit more damage now because of the double-AP-stacking potential (plus you get to hit two enemies with it at once, with some skill). His ult got an unjust AP ratio nerf, not his Q. His W being reliant on his E's stun (which now requires the opponent to stun himself/herself) is the only thing truly holding him back at this point.

MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+ 60% AP) change to MAGIC DAMAGE: 100 / 140 / 180 / 220 / 260 (+ 60% AP)

Can help something like that

They should just make it so the Q pierces for the whole distance.

Imagine the joygasm of killing an entire wave with Q for the bonus AP.

his Q doesn't need anything more. His W is the thing that actually needs help

He has trouble double Q farming early on, where the ability's damage needs buffs the most. Not later on, so probably a base damage buff for the first two levels of his Q.

If they wanna make him a farm champ then he needs his early Q base damage buffed, but have it the same base damage at max rank like Venowolf said

I was skeptical of Veigar after his remake, but I have found the ability to double Q farm is actually /really/ nice.

I think his problem right now is that he is still one of the old mid lane champions that still hasn't had his mana issues addressed. Especially his early game mana issues.

When you contrast a champion like Annie, who does obscene aoe burst, and has an an aoe stun that can't be dodged, while also having functionally infinite mana in lane (unless they are bad), to Anivia or Veigar (the only mages I'm aware of that still have huge mana issues), you realize that they haven't done a good job of changing mechanics for all champions at the same time.

If I could USE E, and W liberally in lane, I think his early game wouldn't be nearly as awful. As it stands, any competent person facing a veigar (jungle as well) is going to realize he is very weak early, and harass him hard. You can either fight back, and make some lackluster trades with Q, denying yourself desperately needed Q farm, or just suck it up and hope they can't get an angle to kill you with.

No, crawl back into the hole you came from. The time of the Veigar QQ threads is over.

This isn't a qq thread through

Well, Q is more reliable in lane in terms of safety, he can get last shots against the most oppressive of lane bullies now, but that aside, its difficult to trade in lane because it can be body blocked now. Considering its his only reliable form of damage besides his ultimate, I can see riot buffing it a tad more, but I think the real issue that needs solving is just his W. I have yet to see a red post on any of the veigar threads since they butchered him, so I doubt they'll try fixing him until the meta changes and he's back to useless because he gets no peel. Unfortunate that, cause I like this meta.

"Now Veigar passes throught all minions it encounters, but stops at first champion hit. Damage decreased to champions if a minion is hit."

Do you think that would be too much OP? His Q is reliable enough since it is really fast but sometimes it is a pain to aim minions that go shoulder-to-shoulder.

In my experience, against the enemy's ADC, my Q did just about the same my ult when I was playing veigar. It scales monstrously with his lategame, but I agree that it's fairly bad early on.

I think the only important change he needs is more reliability on his W.

I'll be the first to tell you Veigar is in a heap of shite right now, but his Q is far from being weak. Veigar has always been a farm champ. Farm a few minions (with its buff you can get 2 at a time now) and you'll rip off some insane damage later. I think that's a fair trade considering how much AP you can build with it. Before the E nerf, I'd always build Tear (which works well with his farming pattern and passive) and build into Seraph's Embrace for 100+ AP and a decent shield. IT was a great farming item and gave him considerable AP later. Stack a Zhonya's on that and he can get into some teamfights. I recall a game I took him top and farmed up. I had over 1000 AP by endgame and my Q shat death. The new Q is even better for farming AP. Once the E is fixed, Veigar will be in a very good place.

oh thanks

Veigar right now is just a cluster fuck of problems.

revert or kit rework is what needs to happens and we need a playstyle that doesn't rely on Q farming.

well unless you get a gank you won't really be dealing damage early, and when you are constantly dealing damage, you'll have enough stacked on your Q to do a lot of damage.

The largest points have already been made, aside from how this works in combination with his E changes. Did anyone like Veigar's E changes? His opposing mid laner and jungler did. Veigat was subsequently made less safe at any given time because of this. The changes they made to his Q were an attempt to add some more security to him. Yes his damage is less reliable now, but his Q has more range and is less body-blockable than the average skillshot.

So not only did Veget get more possible power from the Q, but Vig also got some more of the safety he lost put back.