I'm totally okay with Lee Sins current state of Riot continues to buff other junglers

HateDaddy··5 votes·1,238 views

For example, these Nautilus buffs look great on paper, these Hecarim buffs look great on paper, Skarner is receiving Tristana style buffs where he's slowly buffed with small buffs here and there and eventually someone will figure out he's good or a shift in itemization changes and bam, skarner. If Riot continues to buff other junglers, this is as good a solution if not better than nerfing Lee Sin again. Yes that's right, no nerfing Lee Sin.

The thing is, in reality Lee has one of the most overloaded, overpowered kits out there - but he really does fall off late game. When other junglers have challenged his supremacy, it's because they had similarly good early games and much better late games - then they would get destroyed by nerfs while Lee would go untouched for patches, making Lee the only consistently God tier jungler. Think about it: Elise, nerfed. Eve, nerfed. Pantheon (just as strong as Lee early, probably a bit weaker late), nerfed. Wukong nerfed. Hecarim nerfed. These nerfs go back as far as season 3, early season 3. And this pattern has continued for basically the entire duration of Lee Sins existence. The difference between him and other champs is, he has so much stuff, he can survive nerfs. And he has so much power invested in his early game while still have a shread of relevance late game, it's almost dumb not to pick him.

But, if riot continues these buffs that allow other junglers to thrive, the Lee Sin problem might just go away. He will still be picked no matter what but he might not be the best jungler by far anymore. And riot needs to stick to their guns on this one, junglers kind of need to be overpowered, not because of the joke thread I made the other day but because their gold income is so limited. The concern you have with buffing them too much is suddenly someone says fuck this, I'm landing them and getting 4-5 items on God tier late game junglers by 25 minutes instead of 40+. But, if riot continues to buff fighter classes, some of these cases simply can't happen because skarner and Hecarim as examples would never survive the rough and tough laning experience that top lane can be, and that's not limited to just fighters.

Either way, I support these buffs and I hope riot continues to buff them up. If Lee sin is still by far the best after this, then yes, the nerf cannon needs to be unleashed on him like none other until he gets a real rework that likely would take away some of his early power but make him more than just an insec play late game.

12 Comments

HateDaddy1 votes

If* why can't I edit the title?

HateDaddy1 votes

I want to edit it :(

DanLikesBacon1 votes

As much as those skarner buffs are nice i still think they should just remove his e dmg and utilize it better. nothing is more depressing than doing 40-120 damage with an ability and thats not even including resistances...

Kingsgrave1 votes

{quoted}

As much as those skarner buffs are nice i still think they should just remove his e dmg and utilize it better. nothing is more depressing than doing 40-120 damage with an ability and thats not even including resistances...

If it lost the damage it would be harder to apply your passive.

They made it really low damage and high slow because they didn't want people to go into a solo lane and use it to poke. Its used to catch people out and fuck their shit up.

Hayaishi1 votes

Jarvan is better than Lee Sin right now.

Tendrian1 votes

The thing is, in reality Lee has one of the most overloaded, overpowered kits out there - but he really does fall off late game

But that's exactly the point why his current state isn't okay - it's not his power level that makes him so obnoxious, it's how ridiculous his kit is. Slow, reveal, gap closer, shield, escape, lifesteal, spellvamp, execute, displacement, knockup and that's not even everything. He's right up there with the likes of Poppy/Irelia when it comes to broken kits that are only hold back by undertuned numbers.

He doesn't need nerfs, I agree with that - he needs a straight up rework.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

But that's exactly the point why his current state isn't okay - it's not his power level that makes him so obnoxious, it's how ridiculous his kit is. Slow, reveal, gap closer, shield, escape, lifesteal, spellvamp, execute, displacement, knockup and that's not even everything. He's right up there with the likes of Poppy/Irelia when it comes to broken kits that are only hold back by undertuned numbers.

He doesn't need nerfs, I agree with that - he needs a straight up rework.

His numbers are far from undertuned lol. His ratios are pretty ridiculous, it's the same as pantheon. You can go full glass cannon but you'll die in s heartbeat. I know his kit is overloaded, but honestly he isn't the only one. Wanna know an overloaded kit but it belongs to a champion who is generally considered weak? Veigar. His base damages, ratios and abilities are insane. He has a lot of stuff. Yet he's considered bad - but truth be told, he probably is bad design.

My point is this, I'd rather have more time spent buffing other junglers than finding ways to nerf Lee and/or rework him

Kingsgrave1 votes

They nerfed Pantheon because he had the ability to clear really well without worry while also being a heavy ganker, and he could also solo dragon at any point in the game. He is honestly still just as good as he was before, just not as abusable.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

They nerfed Pantheon because he had the ability to clear really well without worry while also being a heavy ganker, and he could also solo dragon at any point in the game. He is honestly still just as good as he was before, just not as abusable.

This isn't the first time pantheon had been good in the jungle, think back to mid s4 when he was pick/ban

Kingsgrave1 votes

{quoted}

This isn't the first time pantheon had been good in the jungle, think back to mid s4 when he was pick/ban

I don't remember what they even did to him, if I recall correctly they didn't actually go through with any of the changes they planned on due to backlash. I might be mistaken though. They canned the Range reduction on R, the canned the stun reduction, they didnt touch his Q, passive or E. I don't remember what you claim they did. All they really did was nerf Lizard I think.

At least you can see Lee coming. At least he has to use an Ultimate to stun you. At least he has to actually land skillshots.

I don't know why everyone is so anti nerf except when it comes to champions who havent been nerfed enough.

(all this is coming from a Pantheon fan btw)

Raptamei1 votes

In practice, they'll buff everyone else to his level and then nerf him.

Cenobite Azaziel1 votes

Lee doens't fall late game. Not enough for the stupid power he has on early and mid game. Scrap that ult that can CC a whole team and invalidates any immobile champions that can't 1 hit ko him and we are good.

More from Gameplay

More by HateDaddy