Sometime i wonder why jungler hate top laner so much then blame them

ValiantKiller·Sep 12, 2018·1 votes·976 views

You make one mistake as top laner and you give him first blood then your jungle is like " I swear to my self i will gank your lane enjoy you losing lane ". Even when the enemy get greedy and overextend wave after wave after they got that first kill and you played safe your jungler never show up and keep focus other lanes.

Then after all of that of mental set they do and after your enemy laner got fed even when you played safe and give them many chance to gank you and punish that overextend , after all of that they blame you.

12 Comments

EbonyBladeJ88Sep 12, 20183 votes

There is a reason top-lane is considered an "Island". This is coming from a top-lane main, as a heads-up.

This "Island" mentality can be both a good thing and a bad thing. It's a good thing in the fact that as the top-laner, for the most part, YOU ALONE are responsible for YOUR Lane's success. Success in lane, in my view of top-lane, anyway (This is according to the viewpoint of EbonybladeJ88, don't take it as official strategy) doesn't always mean getting a million kills on your opponent. If you can do that, great! If you can't, and it's really a no-kill lane for either of you, just try to make sure you keep up in CS, and try to keep your outer turret up as long as you can. By doing this "outlasting" strategy, you occupy the attention of your enemy top-laner, thus depriving the enemy team of their tankier champion for the team-fights in the early/mid game. Sure, it's the same for YOUR team since YOU aren't there either, and those team-fight outcomes all depend on who takes more advantage of the lack of a tanky champion.

One of the bad things about it is that if you get a crappy matchup (Hard countered, for example) life's gonna be pretty miserable for you. The reason being because even if you hound your JG for a gank, they may see your opponent and figure it'd be a waste of time; since even IF the hypothetical gank succeeded, the hard-counter could just as easily turn it right back around via the advantages afforded to them as a hard counter to your pick.

Top-lane, unlike Mid (which is in the middle of everything) and bot-lane, (who have 2 potential kills AND Dragon), does NOT have a juicy objective (Aside from turrets) until the Herald spawns, and even then, the window to get it only lasts until 20:00. Also, while certain top-lane champs, when fed, have carry POTENTIAL, it ISN'T as reliable as getting the Bot-lane or Mid-Laners fed. Thus, top-lane just doesn't have the DRAW to it that the other lanes have.

BademeisterSep 12, 20181 votes

Not true. Korean (and some NA) boosters consider Top the best position to ensure they can carry the win.

EbonyBladeJ88Sep 12, 20181 votes

Well, I don't play Ranked as often as some, and I don't follow the pro scene, so I was unaware of that fact.

ValiantKillerSep 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

There is a reason top-lane is considered an "Island". This is coming from a top-lane main, as a heads-up.

This "Island" mentality can be both a good thing and a bad thing. It's a good thing in the fact that as the top-laner, for the most part, YOU ALONE are responsible for YOUR Lane's success. Success in lane, in my view of top-lane, anyway (This is according to the viewpoint of EbonybladeJ88, don't take it as official strategy) doesn't always mean getting a million kills on your opponent. If you can do that, great! If you can't, and it's really a no-kill lane for either of you, just try to make sure you keep up in CS, and try to keep your outer turret up as long as you can. By doing this "outlasting" strategy, you occupy the attention of your enemy top-laner, thus depriving the enemy team of their tankier champion for the team-fights in the early/mid game. Sure, it's the same for YOUR team since YOU aren't there either, and those team-fight outcomes all depend on who takes more advantage of the lack of a tanky champion.

One of the bad things about it is that if you get a crappy matchup (Hard countered, for example) life's gonna be pretty miserable for you. The reason being because even if you hound your JG for a gank, they may see your opponent and figure it'd be a waste of time; since even IF the hypothetical gank succeeded, the hard-counter could just as easily turn it right back around via the advantages afforded to them as a hard counter to your pick.

Top-lane, unlike Mid (which is in the middle of everything) and bot-lane, (who have 2 potential kills AND Dragon), does NOT have a juicy objective (Aside from turrets) until the Herald spawns, and even then, the window to get it only lasts until 20:00. Also, while certain top-lane champs, when fed, have carry POTENTIAL, it ISN'T as reliable as getting the Bot-lane or Mid-Laners fed. Thus, top-lane just doesn't have the DRAW to it that the other lanes have.

Again my point here if they going to blame you for the fed enemy laner when it clearly you give your jungler like atleast 3 chance early in game where you was even with your laner or behind by one level to gank and kill him yet they ignore that till you got outlevel and outpowerd then they blame you, isn't that up normal to not help then blame?

After all top laner maybe island but they could solo win game on their own if other lanes failed to do any impact or went even which come the fact if your jungler made the right mind of ganking here and there or not.

EbonyBladeJ88Sep 12, 20181 votes

OK, let me see if I'm understanding this correctly.

You're simply asking that, if your JG doesn't gank you when you provide CLEAR and OPEN opportunities, and your enemy laner gets fed and proceeds to wipe the floor with them, don't blame you for it?

That's how it's coming across to me. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Now let me try to answer this other question.

First, if you're giving your JG opportunities to gank, whether in the behind/even situations that you list, and they don't take them, that is a CONSCIOUS CHOICE that particular JG player is making. It COULD be subconscious as well, though; they might not be paying attention to the mini-map, or Levels, CS rates, etc. They might not consider it worth the risk to save a "failing" lane. I'm NOT SAYING that being a Level or 2 behind means you're doomed to fail, they just might not consider the risks of helping a failing lane worth the reward, in comparison to the more appealing option of just getting another lane fed.

For example, if you were a level or two (Just speaking hypothetically) behind your opponent, your JG might see that and think to themselves:

"Crap, my top-lane Irelia isn't doing so hot." (Just using Irelia as an example, don't know if you actually play her or not)

He or She might then look at your other lanes and weigh their options.

"Should I risk going top-lane to help Irelia, in the hopes that the enemy JG doesn't notice and take advantage to gank our Mid or Bot lane? Or should I help one of our other lanes to try and get them fed to make up for Irelia's shortcomings?"

Seeing your lower level, they also might think this:

"Irelia's down a level or 2 from her Garen (Once again, just an example) opponent. With that level advantage, he could be capable of taking and killing both of us if the gank goes badly, and just make things worse up there."

With that, they might think you're too far gone, and their time would be better spent getting the Mid lane or Bot lane fed instead. Now, I know that's EXACTLY the thing you're speaking against, but remember, this was just a hypothetical scenario.

Next, are you asking that Top-laners be given more WEIGHT, more solo-carry capability? I already mentioned above that there are certain top-lane champs that, when fed, have carry POTENTIAL. Meaning, if they can get fed enough, they can wipe the floor with the other team. Champs like Jax or Tryndamere or Riven and even MasterYi . There are certainly more, but these are just examples.

We have to remember that League of Legends, like most other MOBAs, is a TEAM GAME. Now, LOL and DOTA2 might have more solo-carry capability than a game like HotS (Heroes of the Storm) but while solo-carrying IS certainly an option, it's not considered the PRIME strategy. If we were to give Top-lane more WEIGHT, it would mean putting an objective of something like Dragon or such up there. Something that would DRAW the attention of the JG, because, an objective of great potential is there, thus they would be more motivated to gank you, in hopes of securing that objective.

ValiantKillerSep 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

OK, let me see if I'm understanding this correctly.

You're simply asking that, if your JG doesn't gank you when you provide CLEAR and OPEN opportunities, and your enemy laner gets fed and proceeds to wipe the floor with them, don't blame you for it?

That's how it's coming across to me. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Now let me try to answer this other question.

First, if you're giving your JG opportunities to gank, whether in the behind/even situations that you list, and they don't take them, that is a CONSCIOUS CHOICE that particular JG player is making. It COULD be subconscious as well, though; they might not be paying attention to the mini-map, or Levels, CS rates, etc. They might not consider it worth the risk to save a "failing" lane. I'm NOT SAYING that being a Level or 2 behind means you're doomed to fail, they just might not consider the risks of helping a failing lane worth the reward, in comparison to the more appealing option of just getting another lane fed.

For example, if you were a level or two (Just speaking hypothetically) behind your opponent, your JG might see that and think to themselves:

"Crap, my top-lane isn't doing so hot." (Just using Irelia as an example, don't know if you actually play her or not)

He or She might then look at your other lanes and weigh their options.

"Should I risk going top-lane to help Irelia, in the hopes that the enemy JG doesn't notice and take advantage to gank our Mid or Bot lane? Or should I help one of our other lanes to try and get them fed to make up for Irelia's shortcomings?"

Seeing your lower level, they also might think this:

"Irelia's down a level or 2 from her (Once again, just an example) opponent. With that level advantage, he could be capable of taking and killing both of us if the gank goes badly, and just make things worse up there."

With that, they might think you're too far gone, and their time would be better spent getting the Mid lane or Bot lane fed instead. Now, I know that's EXACTLY the thing you're speaking against, but remember, this was just a hypothetical scenario.

Next, are you asking that Top-laners be given more WEIGHT, more solo-carry capability? I already mentioned above that there are certain top-lane champs that, when fed, have carry POTENTIAL. Meaning, if they can get fed enough, they can wipe the floor with the other team. Champs like or or and even . There are certainly more, but these are just examples.

We have to remember that League of Legends, like most other MOBAs, is a TEAM GAME. Now, LOL and DOTA2 might have more solo-carry capability than a game like HotS (Heroes of the Storm) but while solo-carrying IS certainly an option, it's not considered the PRIME strategy. If we were to give Top-lane more WEIGHT, it would mean putting an objective of something like Dragon or such up there. Something that would DRAW the attention of the JG, because, an objective of great potential is there, thus they would be more motivated to gank you, in hopes of securing that objective.

You understand what i talking about and your answer going in the right direction, but i don't ask that top lane get more weight in the game in term of objective. But i do ask that people if they want to focus on other lanes and keep their power of gank them leaving top lane to be exposed for hard counter in champion select or if they made mistakes that lead to them die in lane then force the lane into enemy favor that not to be harsh on them and blame them for everything.

Infact how many times i made mistake and fall behind in lane so hard yet was able to make come back in game without any jungler help cause they was just all quiet and said we can do this, we can make come back instead of just flaming the top laner over and over for one mistake made that lead to the lane to be ran over by the enemy laner.

All what i ask that people to understand if they not willing to help they should be quit and put positive energy into their top laner atleast if they not willing to gank.

FOR JUSTICESep 12, 20181 votes

as long as most of the match is happening on the lower half of the map, yes, they will (and most of the time should) pretend you dont exist.

toplane doesnt get any meaningful impact in itself until after herald spawns, and this is especially so if your playing a tank. meanwhile a quick gank midlane could mean a follow up botlane and then a dragon. ganking top pre ten minuets is just a kill , so as long as its a 1v1 you did just get outplayed, and it would retroactively be your fault.

ValiantKillerSep 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

as long as most of the match is happening on the lower half of the map, yes, they will (and most of the time should) pretend you dont exist.

toplane doesnt get any meaningful impact in itself until after herald spawns, and this is especially so if your playing a tank. meanwhile a quick gank midlane could mean a follow up botlane and then a dragon. ganking top pre ten minuets is just a kill , so as long as its a 1v1 you did just get outplayed, and it would retroactively be your fault.

I mean if they going to blame the top laner for the fed enemy top laner they should atleast give you hand early when you give them the chance when i play jungler as my secondary i always focus on doing that if my top laner fall behind or made mistake early so he can recover.

FOR JUSTICESep 13, 20181 votes

thats just the thing though, when junglers look at lanes, they want to go for the easiest time possible.

getting someone fed > helping recoveries.

it sucks yes, but there is a reason its reffered to as an island

ValiantKillerSep 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

thats just the thing though, when junglers look at lanes, they want to go for the easiest time possible.

getting someone fed > helping recoveries.

it sucks yes, but there is a reason its reffered to as an island

Again my problem that they will blame you, even when you give them many early ways when they was near yo to gank but yah you are right.

Plat HardstuckXDSep 12, 20181 votes

You gotta learn to be self sufficient in the top lane. I dont expect ganks at all and if im playing a champ like Nasus idc if i feed cause my prime directive is gates. Ill die for a gate and ill split push all day making the enemy come for me every time and bringing pressure to me and letting my team get obhectives. Just learn lane match ups and build accordingly. Adapt to the situation.

ValiantKillerSep 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You gotta learn to be self sufficient in the top lane. I dont expect ganks at all and if im playing a champ like Nasus idc if i feed cause my prime directive is gates. Ill die for a gate and ill split push all day making the enemy come for me every time and bringing pressure to me and letting my team get obhectives. Just learn lane match ups and build accordingly. Adapt to the situation.

I mean i don't care if they gank me or not, but they don't come and then blame you for feeding when it cleary you just out power and out level when you give them the chance to gank and kill the laner when they was in same level with enemy laner.