Practicing ADC Has Made Me Hate Pyke

Woodakoodashooda·Dec 6, 2018·91 votes·20,739 views

Not as an enemy, but as an ally.

He generally out performs everyone on his team, taking the fun of securing kills for yourself completely out of the game. He doesn't look after his carry, he looks after himself and tosses whatever leftovers at whatever ally happened to do some or most of the damage.

His kill participation is generally the highest on his team while his carry is made to look like an absolute joke by comparison. It's annoying when you're trying to improve as ADC, but your support is literally designed to make you look bad and then proceeds to do so.

147 Comments

ChalzeDec 6, 201882 votes

He's literally just an assassin advertised as a support. Aside from some CC and gold share he's literally just another carry assassin.

Critmaster GarenDec 6, 201850 votes

{quoted}

He's literally just an assassin advertised as a support.

hes an assassin whos advertised as an assassin who can play from the support position.

WolfeurDec 6, 20186 votes

He's supposed to be a hybrid Assassin/Catcher according to Riot's classification

LTK KoRoDec 6, 20188 votes

And... he is.

WolfeurDec 6, 20185 votes

I wasn't implying he wasn't

LTK KoRoDec 6, 20185 votes

Oh, then i misunderstood you. Im sorry, that's my mistake.

Abuse meDec 6, 201823 votes

He is assassin that doesnt need to farm to function. He is assassin that will snow ball and there is nothing you can do about it. He is literal embodiment of 0 counterplay champion whose only weakness is its user.

Frog goes mooDec 6, 201810 votes

I agree with some of the statement, but there are some counters. Poppy support. Leona support and taric I think can do really good against him.

Death by GlamourDec 6, 201836 votes

yeah... he is an assassin after all

how do you think It feels for enchanters for instance supporting adcs, when we work our ass off and you get all the credit

WoodakoodashoodaDec 6, 201819 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nBwfKXVg,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-06T12:34:59.169+0000)

yeah... he is an assassin after all

how do you think It feels for enchanters for instance supporting adcs, when we work our ass off and you get all the credit

Um...while the boards would have us all believe that supports are martyrs of being flamed and what have you, more often than not, a good support is usually the recipient of the highest honors from their team.

JeaneGreeneDec 6, 20187 votes

*Plays Ivern Jg *Gets S+ and saved the game by protecting the carry from a fed kha and initiating with Q to lock down enemy carry *Gets no honors

Frog goes mooDec 6, 20183 votes

{quoted}

*Plays Ivern Jg *Gets S+ and saved the game by protecting the carry from a fed kha and initiating with Q to lock down enemy carry *Gets no honors

ayyy ya damn right buddy

JackMcSnipeyzDec 6, 201824 votes

Then he hits your with the "Report trash adc negetive KDA xD" in all chat, when his ult is designed to kill secure every kill

Critmaster GarenDec 6, 201820 votes

the funny thing about this is, that you could take this entire text and apply it to adc when theyre as strong as adc mains think they should be.

Velzard of KozDec 6, 201828 votes

Even funnier is that the problem isn't Pyke design but that he and some people think that going 10/0/0 is unconditionally sign of good player. He's legit complaining Pyke doesn't allow him to have good KDA and that's supposed to be the problem and it prevents him from "looking like good ADC". LOL.

OtterlyLostDec 6, 201817 votes

I hate pyke in general. He seems to have the shaco affect going on for me. Godly on the enemy team, useless on mine. :/ in some ways, he's honestly a worse blitz. I dont mean like they have a similar kit. I mean they end up kind of falling into the same hole of unless you get ahead and are really good, they will be useless because they're only really good at one thing and have limited tools to actually apply utility and peel for their carries. The main difference is that at least if the blitz is garbage and cant land hooks(except on the fed bruiser) he can be at least tanky. Not pyke.

I also wish that, for the love of god, they'd take some of his safety away. Like, whatever, it's perfectly reasonable for him, as a support, to be able to 1v1 me as the ADC at every stage of the game(its not like ADC is capable of beating anyone or anything at any point of the game anyway so what's one more person) but at least make it so that when he does finally fuck it up by missing his engage, missing his ult, or what have you, he is appropriately punishable by me and my team. Late game he can literally screw every part of his flank up as an assassin and then just get to quickly slip away invisible, only to come back five seconds later at full health to try it again. He is the absolute least punishing assassin in the game, which is bad since he's also the assassin with the most CC and a resetting execute ult. Take some of his passive healing away late game, ffs. I'm not asking for nerfs on his damage; just on the late game healing. It's fine and acceptable in lane; he's a squishy melee support with limited means of sustain beyond his passive and potions. But after laning phase, he should not be getting away after a flubbed engage scott free to heal back up to full and try again. He is an Assassin. Make him high risk, high reward.

saltranDec 6, 201812 votes

I kinda dislike him because usually the Pykes I get are like afk in lane and do nothing.

But having worse kda because he gets kills? That's the most irrelevant fact about Pyke lmao, why do you guys care about that.

SaiannaDec 7, 20182 votes

Because CoD kids think it's good KDA that makes your penis grow big.

HupsisDec 6, 201810 votes

His ultimate reset mechanic could just be removed and he would still be a decent support. Perhaps its cooldown could be reduced to compensate a bit.

OleandervineDec 6, 201841 votes

He also needs his healing addressed. His gray health not ever going away until he retreats gives him way too much power and flexibility. He needs some way of being punished for overstaying when he should have fled, and having a decay or time limit on his gray health would go a long way.

ExentrickDec 6, 20182 votes

His great health has no time limit? TIL.

EthreainAmbusherDec 6, 20182 votes

Leaves line of sight Immediately gets full hp after not even 3 seconds, even mid-fight takes all your kills

pyke 101

CowseedDec 6, 20188 votes

Are we really at the point where adcs are complaining they aren't the center of attention?

Lol

ModKnightsKemplarDec 6, 20187 votes

This is an interesting assertion from a team-play standpoint.

Like, I get what you're saying, but at the same time, so should everyone else. Which sort of negates the "he's making you look bad" angle, doesn't it? Everyone knows that Pyke is a ks machine, so it shouldn't surprise anyone when that happens. As long as you are contributing to the kills and you win, that should be the overall goal in a team game anyway, right?

Don't get me wrong, I think you're right. Part of the marksmen fantasy is to be that clean-up crew that survives the initial engage and proceeds to clean up on the remaining enemies. Assassins, generally, kind of negate some of that fantasy, and putting one into the support role is sure to affect that aspect of the game. But, again, it's more about the assassin/marksman relationship than it is about Pyke, specifically. Anyone can ks, and people that do more damage are, of course, more likely to do so. Yi and Katarina are just as bad, I imagine, as they are also champs with high damage and resets on kill.

Now, I'd be more concerned about what he's doing to the grading system with regards to kills/assists. If you have a Pyke on your team, it may be much more difficult to secure an S or S+. That's a very real concern, and one that affects the way that players interact with the game in a much more tangible way.

Dr DogDec 6, 20184 votes

i dont understand why it doesnt just give the kill to the your cut recipient anyway, going 2/4/14 on an adc isnt a problem when your getting the gold it just downright feels and looks awful tho knowing your score could look a lot better

EDIT: i dont mean change how it works, i ment like give the adc the +1 kill on their kda instead of pyke, the ult is fine as it is

LeBlanc RoseDec 6, 20182 votes

Because 450 and 300 gold. Is better than 300 and 150 gold.

Its simple as that. You essentially get a free kill every single time pyke successfully ults. Not everyone is supposed to help inflate adcs ego all game. I don't see many adcs being given red buff level 1 to stomp lane.

EschetonDec 6, 20182 votes

Because shutdown gold. Pyke already lacks agency in the survival of the adc compared to other supports. Putting the bounty on the assist, rather than on Pyke changes things.

IncognonymousDec 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because shutdown gold. Pyke already lacks agency in the survival of the adc compared to other supports. Putting the bounty on the assist, rather than on Pyke changes things.

That's not innovation. That's literally every other champ that has ever run botlane that WASN'T support/ADC or that adopted the label of off-support in post. It's fucking outrageous to reward and so easily abused that OF COURSE we see him in every other lane but bot.

EschetonDec 6, 20183 votes

Yeah. Pyke is a hook champ made for the current crazy meta. Noone is a fan. But the quick-games, quick-reward set-up conditions people to want instant gratification. Which, ya know, increases skin sales and such. So we are kinda stuck with it.

That said. When Puke came out, playing support sucked. Nothing worked like it used to and the role was generally no longer fun to play. Pyke is fun to play.

All the other lanes get all these crazy OP super mobile champs that we need 15 bans for. Why not support? Seriously.

Nea104Dec 6, 20184 votes

Bad concept, bad kit design. His creator: "Chasing the possibility of a pentakill on a support is awesome.”

Season 8 at its best. And these people are still "working" on this game :P

Fear the KaynDec 6, 20183 votes

AP mages have been doing the whole 'Pentakill on a support' thing for years now.

Fear the KaynDec 6, 20184 votes

Are we really at the point where ADC player are complaining that they 'look bad' in game? Listen who cares if you look bad if you win the game that's all that matters.

Also to anyone who thinks hes OP, hes not. He's literally just an assassin bot lane. Take a Talon, Zed, whoever you want bot and you'll see similar results. Whenever the enemy bans Pyke and I want to play support I hit em with the good ol' reliable Pantheon support and make the enemy bot lane want to hang themselves on the tower with Flex Tape. Also his winrate has been below 50% forever so he's pretty well balanced winrate wise.

King LegoDec 6, 20184 votes

Pyke is argued to be a toxic and badly designed champion, but at a point, i heard most of these from ADC mains (i'm a mid lane main so yeah).

The thing is that, KDA doesn't really matter. You can be 20/0 and still lose. What matters is destroying the enemy turret, and Pyke has the tools to guarentee a free 300 gold, that giving him a penta kill will make your team snowball harder that Nunu's giant mega snowball (i forgot which ability it is).

LeBlanc RoseDec 6, 20184 votes

So wait. You are saying. That you hate pyke... because he detracts away from your kill count. Even though you PHYSICALLY GET MORE GOLD from him ksing than you solo killing. Are you seriously the kind of person who feels threatened when another laner gets ahead, as it means you can't carry? If you want to play like that, just play a singleplayer game. No one to detract away from your glory there.

SaiannaDec 7, 20182 votes

If you want to play like that, just play a singleplayer game. No one to detract away from your glory there.

goes to custom to play vs bots
pyke bot KSes him
"gitgut neeb" auto msg from the bot

That's how you make school shooters :P

Meep ManDec 6, 20183 votes

Its... a team game?

Awaki SakumeDec 6, 20183 votes

As a support main, this makes me want to add Pyke to my roster just so there will at least be one non-toxic Pyke in the world.

But I'm bad with assassins, so.

A7X KindredDec 6, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Awaki Sakume,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nBwfKXVg,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2018-12-06T19:21:25.684+0000)

As a support main, this makes me want to add Pyke to my roster just so there will at least be one non-toxic Pyke in the world.

But I'm bad with assassins, so.

There's a lot of non-toxic Pyke mains, but you'll get flamed every game by your ADC, they hate Pyke because they don't get to brag about their KDA, which let's be honest supports are the ones who set everything up, so ADC's can come and grab the kill.

ApocalypsicDec 6, 20183 votes

Who cares about your kill count when pyke is shoveling all the kill gold your way anyways.

Resonance x LFTDec 6, 20183 votes

Zyra says hello

AseraanDec 6, 20183 votes

"Laughs in 18 4 Velkoz supp"

Rabbi ShekelbergDec 7, 20183 votes

legit the most retarded design ever. execute people when they are at HALF HEALTH

Baby GhoulDec 7, 20183 votes

Yeah, going against a Pyke is annoying because of how safe he is.

I actually don't mind damage supports or "selfish" supports as some ADCs call them. I just hate how they've dominated the meta, but you can kill them and they are rather cheesy if you play your cards right bot. In contrast, Pyke is just too safe for what he can pull off.

Pixie StormDec 6, 20182 votes

I hate having Pyke supports when I play AD that forces me to play something like a burst adc with self peel Lucian Ezreal then you feel the outplay coming annnnd - Pyke executes.

OmegaNITRODec 6, 20182 votes

I think it's less about the Pyke being designed to make you look bad and more about the fact that ADCs are just weak in general and that Pyke is NOT built to prop you up into relevancy.

I think Pyke is fine, and supports deserve a champ they can shine on and play to carry while still doing their jobs. It just sucks for an ADC in a meta where you're increasingly reliant on your support hand holding you to get much of anything done.

Etwahl For OneDec 6, 20182 votes

Zyra Sona Veigar Lux

3TWarriorDec 6, 20182 votes

3 of those 4 are mages who are natural carries, they just got weakened/their opponents strengthened to the point where they are more efficient as a "support" by being a backup carry, except for veigar, who is an off-pick

Sona, on the other hand, has always been a support but her numbers have been gutted repeatedly...her Q by itself only does 40 damage + 50% AP now... you have to weave multiple auto attacks into her combo to make it worthwhile now which benefit from 10 + 30% AP

to max of 160 + 50% ap + 30 + 30% AP

her utility has been raised through the roof, but that kind of feels like artificial power...

GreenKnightDec 6, 20182 votes

That's why i was never convinced that he's a support in the first place.

SaiannaDec 7, 20182 votes

He generally out performs everyone on his team, taking the fun of securing kills for yourself completely out of the game. He doesn't look after his carry, he looks after himself and tosses whatever leftovers at whatever ally happened to do some or most of the damage.

I don't wanna diss you, but that's the perfect description of how ADCs were played for about 4 seasons we had (s3-7). Only in 8th season things changed a bit, because ADCs got their items nerfed for a month or 2. But they are slowly creeping back to their spot of most annoying and spoiled class.

LordGeovanniDec 7, 20182 votes

so hes just like an adc or mage and that makes you feel bad. Pyke securing kills has nothing to do with whether you are a good or bad adc because kills dont make you a good or bad adc orb walking because you have the most mobility on a class in the game with fluid damage in spells and autos make you a good or bad adc.