How to fix Fiora

HateDaddy·Jun 8, 2017·35 votes·2,485 views

Make Q cost 40 at all levels so she actually has mana issues (her max rank mana cost on Q is 40 so this doesn't hurt her late game at all).

Remove her attack speed slow. It makes no sense to have this attached to an ability that can literally block ults. It's particularly difficult to avoid as a melee champion. And this is just extra power she doesn't need to have. She already can proc a massive heal, does %true damage so you can't itemize vs her and between her W and Q prioritizing vitals, it makes disabling her via various anti-DPS spells (AS slows, MS slows, etc) virtually impossible. A well played fiora has almost no windows of weakness and that's honestly bullshit.

81 Comments

fuffychanJun 8, 201716 votes

How to fix Fiora -

Do nothing because shes fine.

How about you stop complaining about a champion that needs to be built squishy to be successful and actually requires skill?

HateDaddyJun 8, 201732 votes

{quoted}

How to fix Fiora -

Do nothing because shes fine.

How about you stop complaining about a champion that needs to be built squishy to be successful and actually requires skill?

l m a o

PROJECT KatarìnaJun 8, 20172 votes

https://i.imgflip.com/1qjrfd.jpg Although I do think they need to remove the attack speed slow

Warhammer TitanJun 8, 201713 votes

I dont think shes fine, late game she can litteraly kill anyone under tower and they have to 2v1 her to stop the splitpush

Asayake 5150glowJun 8, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Grand ChalIenge,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n2URiW04,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-06-08T00:35:40.087+0000)

I dont think shes fine, late game she can litteraly kill anyone under tower and they have to 2v1 her to stop the splitpush

No, no, no.

If Fiora is alone you are doing something wrong.

Bring your entire fucking team top lane, then push it.

Either their team comes and you 5v5, and Fiora is nearly useless in a full blown teamfight due to her low range and inability to reach the back line.

Or they go somewhere else and you outpush them because 5>4.

Also she can't kill most skirmishers under tower, and a few divers.

Warhammer TitanJun 8, 20177 votes

She can go bot, you bring your whole team its a free baron?

Asayake 5150glowJun 8, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Grand ChalIenge,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n2URiW04,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-08T01:00:37.778+0000)

She can go bot, you bring your whole team its a free baron?

Send one to push, take Elder, and defend. Have your split pusher recall once they see someone, and the rest of your team clear minion waves so Baron buff is less useful.

If they get cocky with their Baron, let them force a fight 5v4. They'll be itching to use it, so probably play more risky (or maybe not). Anyway, try to get a flank engage - Elder means the fight should definitely be even, depending on how many drags you have. And even without Elder, 4v5's are never a good idea.

Warhammer TitanJun 8, 20175 votes

Oh right its that simple. Just clear the minion waves! God why didnt I think about that now baron power plays are useless

Asayake 5150glowJun 8, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Grand ChalIenge,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n2URiW04,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-08T01:20:35.407+0000)

Oh right its that simple. Just clear the minion waves! God why didnt I think about that now baron power plays are useless

Uh, yeah. Duh. Shouldn't be a problem with Elder drake's true damage shredding through minions.

Plus, they'll need to send one back to deal with bot lane/your splitpusher - if the rest go mid, you can collapse on them 4v3, and if one goes top to extend Baron there before you can deal with the wave, 4v2.

Warhammer TitanJun 8, 20174 votes

How a random bronze player completely ruined the reason to go for baron. It is now a useless objective and is currently being reworked

Asayake 5150glowJun 8, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Grand ChalIenge,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n2URiW04,comment-id=00010001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-08T01:24:39.480+0000)

How a random bronze player completely ruined the reason to go for baron. It is now a useless objective and is currently being reworked

Tmw you can't think of a good argument and decide to rankshame instead

Niiiiiice.

Warhammer TitanJun 8, 20174 votes

Nah bronze is just the sprinkles to the cupcake or whatever. You cant just say "Do this" and it will just work. You cant brush off a baron buff like its nothing

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/657d3w/breaking_news_just_dodge_the_skillshots/

This is an example where I got it from

RFPSHBYQl7Jun 8, 20173 votes

That's what Tryndamere does too but I don't see people saying he's broken.

Troll for TrumpJun 8, 20171 votes

They do, though. A LOT.

RFPSHBYQl7Jun 8, 20172 votes

They don't say he's broken. They say he's unhealthy

Troll for TrumpJun 8, 20171 votes

A broken champ can be fixed; an unhealthy champ can only be reworked

General Esdeath Jun 8, 20178 votes

I hate how her W can slow attack speed without blocking anything

SpookyNeedleJun 8, 20176 votes

In fencing a parry when your opponent doesn't attack is a beat attack, which knocks your blade away therefore slowing attack speed. The MS is unnecessary tho. Also the riposte part of her W is easy to dodge

General Esdeath Jun 8, 20172 votes

In fencing a parry doesn't block a fucking nuclear magical blast from a small purple mage either

Hinagiku33Jun 9, 20172 votes

In reality there is also no such things as nuclear magical blasts or small purple mages. If you want to get into suspension of disbelief in a fantasy sword-n-sorcery video game be aware that it's a deep rabbit hole you're getting into.

Gameplay-wise, Riposte is Fiora's only real defense so it blocks everything the same way Yi's Q lets him dodge everything including targeted spells that logically shouldn't miss just because Yi is dashing very fast.

But if you do want to inject realism into this game we can always delete all the mages...

General Esdeath Jun 9, 20171 votes

Are you telling me Santa isn't real and doesn't rain justice on naughty kids with magical blasts from Elf Veigar (Riot pls)?

And I'm not the one who brought up realism fam

MyrkrvaldyrJun 8, 20178 votes

Will the boards ever stop bitching about a champ? How come suddenly Fiora is the new target after Yasuo? Leave Fiora alone.

LegacyDAPJun 8, 20173 votes

No, Fiora is broken. Her items are way to strong and her early is too good to compensate for her ridiculous late. Yasuo gets hate on the boards because he's annoying, not because he's broken. The only people that think Yasuo is broken are like Silvers and lower lmao.

MyrkrvaldyrJun 8, 20172 votes

Not the point. People didn't talk about Fiora until Yauso finally got nerfed and 10 bans came in. If Fiora is ''broken'' why did people wait till Yasuo's nerfs to bitch about her? Fiora is fine, leave her alone.

SchàdenfreudeJun 8, 20172 votes

And why did you randomly assume that Fiora is the new target after Yasuo? Did you just get on the boards or something? People have been complaining about her for a long time.

Fiora really is a problem, just not in your opinion.

Hinagiku33Jun 9, 20172 votes

Considering Fiora's win-rate has been pretty consistently ~51% despite being extremely popular, the data says she really isn't a problem.

Is she commonly played? Yes. Is she incredibly annoying for many people? Yes. Is she so powerful that you are at a statistical disadvantage if the enemy picks her? No, not really.

Her win-rates are so consistently average that I really doubt Riot will do anything about her any time soon. A light nerf to trim her play rate a bit perhaps, but she hardly needs the gutting some people here are calling for.

We all should know by now that the Boards accounts for a very tiny portion of the playerbase, and that just because people complain about something doesn't automatically mean it's OP. So I'm more inclined to think that some people on the Boards just hate Fiora and are being extra loud because she popular right now.

DunkinNoobsJun 8, 20177 votes

Her Q isn't supposed to be mana gated, but rather her E. Hell, the only reason she has mana at all is that being able to spam E off CD would make her too strong a laner; beyond that's she's basically a manaless champion and Riot clearly intended her mana costs to not be much of a barrier unless she spams her E too much.

Hinagiku33Jun 9, 20172 votes

^ This.

Yasuo and Tryndamere are also Skirmishers and are manaless, as are a lot of other melee champions that rely on spamming skills to do anything. Aside from Tanks and Juggernauts, it actually seems almost rare for Riot to release melee champs that actually use mana normally these days.

Fiora is supposed to be spamming her Q as long as she is hitting things with it, it's supposed to be gated by cooldown (a really long one if she uses it to run away) rather than mana cost. The intent seems to be to let Fiora jump in to proc vitals and run away as her only means of poke (which still requires her to get in melee range) but restrict her E with mana to limit her ability to fully trade and all-in opponents. I think an early hit to her E's mana cost could work nicely to ease up Fiora's lane pressure without crippling her.

Shuyin178Jun 8, 20176 votes

They need to change the % Max Health True Damage to % Current Health true damage.

Asayake 5150glowJun 8, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Make Q cost 40 at all levels so she actually has mana issues (her max rank mana cost on Q is 40 so this doesn't hurt her late game at all).

Sure, why not.

Remove her attack speed slow. It makes no sense to have this attached to an ability that can literally block ults. It's particularly difficult to avoid as a melee champion. And this is just extra power she doesn't need to have. She already can proc a massive heal, does %true damage so you can't itemize vs her and between her W and Q prioritizing vitals, it makes disabling her via various anti-DPS spells (AS slows, MS slows, etc) virtually impossible. A well played fiora has almost no windows of weakness and that's honestly bullshit.

That's not true... and don't fucking list her kit to try to make it sound overpowered. Her W doesn't prioritize Vitals, it's a skillshot.

It does NOT make disabling her virtually impossible... fucking .75 seconds of invulnerability does not make it impossible to CC someone. Not to mention 20 second cooldown. And Riposte is far too important to waste on a mere MS slow. Almost no champions have attack speed slows that can be Riposted besides Exhaust, which is a point and click instantaneous spell that if she Ripostes, she just pulled a 200 IQ play.

Any Fiora has windows of weaknesses called all the time she's in combat -.75 seconds, and Q is a mobility spell that can be used to dodge, but is not 100% reliable. She has all the windows of weaknesses of any other Diver - not even skirmisher, as her defensive ability is completely subpar in a teamfight, as it doesn't matter if she blocks one CC spell, she's standing still and vulnerable the instant it ends. Riven's dash is better because it blocks poke and can be used to dodge shit. Wind Wall blocks all form of ranged projectile anything. Undying Rage stops death for 5 seconds. Counterstrike reduces AoE damage taken by 25% and blocks the main form of lategame DPS (ADC's) as well as the majority of anyone AD's (besides Zed, Talon, and Kha) damage, as well as a reliable AoE stun that also ends up on a fucking 6 second cooldown lategame. Jax even gets fucking resists scaling on his damage stats.

Riposte can go head to head with these spells in a 1v1. But not in a teamfight.

TheorcheroJun 8, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n2URiW04,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-06-08T01:06:45.536+0000)

Sure, why not.

That's not true... and don't fucking list her kit to try to make it sound overpowered. Her W doesn't prioritize Vitals, it's a skillshot.

It does NOT make disabling her virtually impossible... fucking .75 seconds of invulnerability does not make it impossible to CC someone. Not to mention 20 second cooldown. And Riposte is far too important to waste on a mere MS slow. Almost no champions have attack speed slows that can be Riposted besides Exhaust, which is a point and click instantaneous spell that if she Ripostes, she just pulled a 200 IQ play.

Any Fiora has windows of weaknesses called all the time she's in combat -.75 seconds, and Q is a mobility spell that can be used to dodge, but is not 100% reliable. She has all the windows of weaknesses of any other Diver - not even skirmisher, as her defensive ability is completely subpar in a teamfight, as it doesn't matter if she blocks one CC spell, she's standing still and vulnerable the instant it ends. Riven's dash is better because it blocks poke and can be used to dodge shit. Wind Wall blocks all form of ranged projectile anything. Undying Rage stops death for 5 seconds. Counterstrike reduces AoE damage taken by 25% and blocks the main form of lategame DPS (ADC's) as well as the majority of anyone AD's (besides Zed, Talon, and Kha) damage, as well as a reliable AoE stun that also ends up on a fucking 6 second cooldown lategame. Jax even gets fucking resists scaling on his damage stats.

Riposte can go head to head with these spells in a 1v1. But not in a teamfight.

Bahaha way to misread what he said in an attempt to attack his argument.

Her Q prioritizes vitals through minions. This effectively means that champions without the damage to respond (ie tanks) can't deal with Fiora. She bullies them early game, period. Then she outscales and becomes a massive splitpush threat that cannot be dueled.

The problem with Fiora is that she bullies you early while scaling late. We're not talking windows of power here that can be worked around. Jax? He's got his level 1 cheese with E, sure. Any good player works around that till lvl 2, then he's not as strong, he's still melee with no innate sustain so he's abusable, which is how he should be because he scales late.

Gangplank was nerfed hard because he bullied early and scaled well. Galio was nerfed for doing the same (and is going to get nerfed again.)

Fiora is pick/ban in competitive play for a fucking reason. She's busted. You and your galore of silver buddies can parade on the boards all you want, she's a balance monstrosity right now and should be permabanned until nerfed.

SpookyNeedleJun 8, 20171 votes

She's only a counterpick in LCS, because tanks like Galio and Zac are busted

TheorcheroJun 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

She's only a counterpick in LCS, because tanks like Galio and Zac are busted

Then why is she picked even when galio and similar are banned? She duels tanks or anyone else just as easily.

Asayake 5150glowJun 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Bahaha way to misread what he said in an attempt to attack his argument.

Her Q prioritizes vitals through minions. This effectively means that champions without the damage to respond (ie tanks) can't deal with Fiora. She bullies them early game, period. Then she outscales and becomes a massive splitpush threat that cannot be dueled.

No. That's simply not true at all.

Fiora is very bad at dealing with armor early game, and her usual build path of Rav before Cleaver means she doesn't get armor shred on first item either. This means a lot of the higher damage tanks can easily hold their own against Fiora. The best example is probably Poppy, because even if her W doesn't fuck over Fiora's Q, her damage and tank stats are enough to let her duel Fiora.

The problem with Fiora is that she bullies you early while scaling late. We're not talking windows of power here that can be worked around. Jax? He's got his level 1 cheese with E, sure. Any good player works around that till lvl 2, then he's not as strong, he's still melee with no innate sustain so he's abusable, which is how he should be because he scales late.

What the fucking hell. Fiora does not bully anyone early besides fucking Sion. Even Nasus stands a chance if she tries to all in her. So does Gangplank.

Jax's early trading is not that bad, he's melee yes, but so are most laners, and you can really only abuse his being melee if you manage to get ahead in the first place, and unless you're playing Darius, that's a skill thing. Not to mention most top laners rely on auto attacks for a large portion of their damage, so Jax's E gives him a very good chance of dueling people early game.

The problem with your argument is that Fiora doesn't bully anybody early game except Sion, but every single skirmisher in the game bullies Sion, and her lategame does well in a 1v1 yes, but it's still utter trash in teamfights.

Gangplank was nerfed hard because he bullied early and scaled well. Galio was nerfed for doing the same (and is going to get nerfed again.)

Then how come it's completely possible to beat Fiora with Gangplank?

Fiora is pick/ban in competitive play for a fucking reason. She's busted. You and your galore of silver buddies can parade on the boards all you want, she's a balance monstrosity right now and should be permabanned until nerfed.

She's really not. 51% winrate. I've recently fought a Fiora as Gangplank, one of THE weakest early game champions, and I completely wrecked her shit.

TheorcheroJun 8, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n2URiW04,comment-id=000600000001,timestamp=2017-06-08T20:42:47.514+0000)

No. That's simply not true at all.

Fiora is very bad at dealing with armor early game, and her usual build path of Rav before Cleaver means she doesn't get armor shred on first item either. This means a lot of the higher damage tanks can easily hold their own against Fiora. The best example is probably Poppy, because even if her W doesn't fuck over Fiora's Q, her damage and tank stats are enough to let her duel Fiora.

What the fucking hell. Fiora does not bully anyone early besides fucking Sion. Even Nasus stands a chance if she tries to all in her. So does Gangplank.

Jax's early trading is not that bad, he's melee yes, but so are most laners, and you can really only abuse his being melee if you manage to get ahead in the first place, and unless you're playing Darius, that's a skill thing. Not to mention most top laners rely on auto attacks for a large portion of their damage, so Jax's E gives him a very good chance of dueling people early game.

The problem with your argument is that Fiora doesn't bully anybody early game except Sion, but every single skirmisher in the game bullies Sion, and her lategame does well in a 1v1 yes, but it's still utter trash in teamfights.

Then how come it's completely possible to beat Fiora with Gangplank?

She's really not. 51% winrate. I've recently fought a Fiora as Gangplank, one of THE weakest early game champions, and I completely wrecked her shit.

"I beat a bronze fiora, see! She can't lane bully anyone!"

Please. There's a reason she's highly contested in competitive play.

PermabannedGarenJun 8, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Remove her attack speed slow.

No. She already gets facerolled by Tryndamere and Jax at a certain point of the game. She doesn't need to be bamboozled by them early game as well.

HateDaddyJun 8, 201711 votes

{quoted}

No. She already gets facerolled by Tryndamere and Jax at a certain point of the game. She doesn't need to be bamboozled by them early game as well.

Jax can outplay her E entirely, as can Trynd. In both of these cases, when played properly, her E doesn't help her at all. These are unique cases though, the same does not apply to others.

Asayake 5150glowJun 8, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Jax can outplay her E entirely, as can Trynd. In both of these cases, when played properly, her E doesn't help her at all. These are unique cases though, the same does not apply to others.

W, get your fucking facts straight before talking about nerfing a champion...

The same actually does apply to others - .75 seconds is often plenty to juke a skillshot.

HateDaddyJun 8, 20178 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n2URiW04,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-06-08T00:57:30.704+0000)

W, get your fucking facts straight before talking about nerfing a champion...

R u ok

The same actually does apply to others - .75 seconds is often plenty to juke a skillshot

Most champions don't have the dps to go toe to toe with her like Jax and Trynd do

AhristocatsJun 8, 20171 votes

the dude is a fiora main, just forget it

it's insane how the champ is literally untplayable against in high elo as she forces you to play 3v4, but can be immune to nerfs since a long time

doodlebob666Jun 8, 20174 votes

lower health regen to riven level so her early game is actually abusable, and fiora's need to be careful with their trades

SpookyNeedleJun 8, 20171 votes

I agree

Hinagiku33Jun 9, 20172 votes

Riot will never do this.

Riven's health regen is only that low in the first place because she has a semi-spammable, no-cost shield to block virtually all poke. Any damage that does manage to land is supposed to stick.

Fiora's only defensive spell is gated by both decent mana cost and very long cooldown. You should be landing poke on Fiora regularly if you have any kind of ranged damage at all, so Fiora gets normal health regen like other melee top laners.

RalanrJun 8, 20173 votes

Mana change might be enough.

gubigubiJun 9, 20173 votes

Fiora actually does have some mana issues. If you want to split push fast on Fiora you have to spam Q and E to wave clear. If you do that you run out of mana fairly quickly. Increasing the mana cost on Q I don't think would make Fiora more fun to play against. It would just make her have to recall or steal blue buff more in order to have the same impact.

I do agree the attack speed slow on W sucks to play against. But I'm not sure about removing it completely without compensating Fiora in some way. It is a very strong aspect of her kit and W has an extremely long cool down to begin with. Removing it completely I think would make her far to weak in 1v1 situations where she should be strongest.

Fiora actually has massive windows of weakness that are very easy to take advantage of if you realize how long her cool downs are. Specifically in the lane phase. Her cool downs at level 3 when she has all of her spells are 16 seconds on Q, 24 seconds on W, 13 seconds on E. If Fiora wastes her W or misses Q and gets the long cool down thats a very large window of opportunity in which you can put some serious damage on Fiora that she cannot trade back.

Also Fiora is doing well but she isn't crazy at the moment. Her current win rate is 51% with a 15% pick rate according to OP.GG. And in pro play her current stats for NA are 1-3 and for LCK 1-4. She is strong but she is not busted. If anything is busted its the new item 1054 that made her early game more survivable and item 3812 which is far too strong right now for anyone that can use it.

GreenBoÍJun 8, 20172 votes

Why everyone wants to remove AS slow on W... Its the only actuall thing that helps her to kill ADC's in 1vs1 or 1vs2 ... and not to mention as slow is usseles against AP... AND that slow is for making plays... (i had soo many good ones with a help of it... soo many times saved my life) yoy can remove E slow if u want... And after all first E hit us kinda usseles...

AND YES... Fiora needs skill to play... Most people dont understand because they think loosing to a champs means they are easy(this works not only for Fiora)... but when you try for first 10 games you are like "Wtf how can i not win" and then you just quit the champ because you are too lazy to learn it or you hate the playstyle and go back to playing Yasuo and QQ when get stomped by an "easy" champ.

And all good fiora players you met are rank 4-7 mostly with her... Soo they have spent a lot of hours in her (like me almost 1 mil points) and know how she works... Me for example in Plat 2-3... playing as Fiora is super frustfrating and not "easy" (for one moment i even quit to support) and can get stomped by tanks if they know what they are doing...

So yeah removing Fiora W would be a huuuge strike to her when she is vs ad's And when you are vs tank they are using their abilities mostly and often have AA reset like Malph or Renek or even Shen soo removing W slow wont really make her battles against tanks any diffrent... And its true dmg you want to look in if you need nerf...

Or you can just revert her rework... but that would make her even more broken TBH

I think i said what i wanted and i probably will get downwoted but idc as long as i told my opinion coming from Fiora main since 2013

RevaliJun 8, 20171 votes

the easiest way to do it would just get rid of her true damage and change it to physical imo.

MyrkrvaldyrJun 8, 20178 votes

No, because that would make her trash.

RevaliJun 8, 20171 votes

Never said it was the best, just the easiest.

Legacy HydralphaJun 8, 20172 votes

Yeah but it ruins her identify of being able to duel ANYONE. IMO different parts of her kit help her fight different times of champs, and the true damage helps her fight tanks and juggernauts.