Preseason scaling runes should cap at level 10

Moody P·Oct 26, 2018·44 votes·13,863 views

the 2 runes that scale (CDR in the first row, 1-10% from levels 1-18 and HP in third row, 15-90 from lvl 1 to 18) simply take too long to become relevant compared to +10 adaptive or +8% atk speed up front (he atk speed is solid on anyone who needs it and only gets better as you level up) or +5 more armor/MR

the current alternatives are equal in their gold value but you get them all up front as opposed to needing late game for the full value of these 2.

if it's really necessary that they need to scale, they should at least cap at a more reasonable point in time for what you're getting out of them; level 10 feels like a solid place to set them, delaying their full value but not so far back that you won't see their value

23 Comments

Sire HippingtonOct 26, 201813 votes

The defensive runes look a bit weak aswell, the 6 ad is worth 216g, the 10ap is worth ~213g, 8% AS is worth200g, 5armor is worth 100g, so only half as much as the offesnive counter parts. It sould either give both armor and mr if they fear that to much early armor vs a physical dd is to strong, or they should make them scaleing aswell, but the current value is a joke in comparision.

As for health, the full 90 health have a value of ~240g, barly more than the flat adaptive or AS, which at lvl 18 is just pathetic. If it's not a flat value, it needs to scale much higher to be worth it, like atleast 130hp.

And the CDR, it would be awsome if it hit at lvl 10, kicking in with transcendence for a nice powerspike at lvl 10, but delayed till 18 it's rather questionable.

XeroKimoOct 26, 20181 votes

I mean if I'm reading the PBE patch notes right, they have yet to revert the defense changes from the start of season 7, so on top of the armor they received from removing old runes, you can get an additional 5 more.

Sire HippingtonOct 26, 20181 votes

Not like most people got increased base damage on their abillities and more base AD to off-set the missing ad from runes, yet they get about as much ad from the new system as the old gave(not quite but nearly)...

XeroKimoOct 26, 20181 votes

I mean 5 armor is just shy off the 9 most people ran with armor seals. Some tanks got like +20 armor from the base stat adjustments, many others got like +7-9 armor as well.

Base damage abilities were like +5 to so many abilities. Early game that's like a 9-10% damage increase, but every level after that, it usually reaches below 1% increase in damage, compared to armor, which is 7-9% increase in effective health, and it's effectiveness doesn't change with level.

Tbh, I don't remember how much ad was increased on average between champions, but I play plenty of champions and do keep track of how much ad I have usually after buying dorans or long sword, and for the most part, I would more or less have the exact same amount of ad as I'd have in the old runes and masteries, mind you that I did mostly run AD marks, AS quints, armor seals and mr glyhps. So yea.... more or less the same

Lil Homie bustaOct 26, 20181 votes

I believe they're weak because they can be stacked, and when so they make the laning phase very interactive. A solution would be removing armor and MR from the middle row and increasing their value to something like 7~8. This way, only AS, Adpt and Health would be able to stack twice.

Ez dePazOct 26, 201812 votes

I agree, any champ that actually want cdr also want to have it before level 18, as the cdr rune looks now it will only be picked the champion doesn't care about ad/ap or attackspeed.

DeusVultOct 26, 20183 votes

which is generally no one. Even a couple of AD/AP is more meaningful since you get the full amount at level 1 than it would ever be for a champ to get 10% CDR at level 18. AD/AS mean that people are going to have an easier time CSing and trading at early levels, while late game CDR doesnt mean as much because the champ either doesnt build CDR or is going to have 40% cdr regardless of the rune

Done25Oct 26, 20189 votes

I agree. The stat runes need better balancing in general.

GigglesOOct 26, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I agree. The stat runes need better balancing in general.

While we are at it we shouldn't be giving

5 armor = 100g 6 MR = 108g 6 ad = 210g 10 ap = 217g 15hp = 39g 90=234g

Clear bias for damage. Defense needs to be similar gold value.

ModAcademy KaynOct 27, 20182 votes

That doesn't make sense though. 10 AP gives a 60% ratio ability 6 more damage. How much damage reduction would having 5 more armor give, in comparison early game?

Ahri InariOct 27, 20182 votes

Armor/Resistance scale better in early game than damage. Comparing gold is better.

ModAcademy KaynOct 27, 20181 votes

But...doesn't that just prove my point? It makes sense for their to be less Armor and MR Because it scales better early? I'm sorry, I still don't get what you mean.

Ahri InariOct 27, 20181 votes

My bad I failed to explain. What I mean is if we talk about gold efficiently. Defensive stat have more impact early in the game than damage. In order it's Defense > AP > AD. Where defense are the best early game and AD the best late game and AP the middle. It's just how league mathematic work. Resistance is a curve, the first + 30 armor have more impact than the next +30 armor.

AP and AD scale better because of multple "multiplicator". For example AP is the raw AP * Penetration * Amplification (Liandry, Rabadon...)*Cooldown (The more you spam spell the better is your dps). For AD it's raw AD * Attack Speed * Critical chance * Penetration. Meanwhile tank has the lowest amount of "multiplicator" which is Resistance(There are even 2 type of resistance so it's even worse for them) * Health. Of course there are some AP who scale better than some AD and vice versa, but you get the point. This is why if you build some early defense as a carry and sit on them you are most likely able to win 1v1.

So when we compare stat from rune we use as comparaison "gold efficiency" based on cheapest item. For example Armor it's 15 Armor for a cloack Armor so 300g/15 = 20. 1 Armor = 20 Gold.

GigglesOOct 27, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mwUE2pEo,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-27T08:24:40.992+0000)

That doesn't make sense though. 10 AP gives a 60% ratio ability 6 more damage. How much damage reduction would having 5 more armor give, in comparison early game?

So here is the deal

Level 1 Morde Vs level 1 Xearth

0 bonuses MR 32 Xearth Q 80 (80+.75ap) Damage taken = 60.6

6 MR and 10 AP MR 38 Xearth Q 87 (80+.75*10) Damage taken = 63.4

For a set of stats that are supposed to be "Quasi equal" MR is losing the war. For me to take the same damage that a Xearth Q would deal with the bonus 10 AP I would need roughly 12 MR

10 ap costs 217.5g 12 MR costs 216g

So... yea... damage is still being favored.

You can't viable get defenses out of the runes anymore, Riot knows this and so they force you to take 1 defense stat so that the players that would otherwise just pick 3 offence don't 100% win by gold efficiency alone. If I could choose 30 ap (651 gold) or 18 MR 324 gold) I would always take 30 ap and then just build in game defense.

I honestly think that that is why riot doesn't want a flat rune system, they can hide their math behind a bunch of cool downs, effects and whatnot. It doesn't take very long to figure out that bone plating is getting removed because it competes too well with damage.

These rune stat changes are just an illusion that players still have free choice.

Slythrin UmbreonOct 26, 20186 votes

lol, 90 hp at level 18

Automated RivenOct 26, 20183 votes

Cdr should be flat and HP should either be flat or scale much higher. 90HP at level 18 is a pittance. 90HP at level 1 is decent tho.

+Armor and MR should be like 8-10 flat at level 1.

Tbh the cdr rune is not going to be taken by anyone in it's current state. And even flat the only people who will take are riven and anyone who only wants to purchase 30% instead of 40% that specific game. (or wants to sit on 20% with the transendence rune.

My Waifu VanillaOct 26, 20183 votes

90 health at level 1 is decent. Its only like 20% of a squishies health. Or an entire D Blade.

BobaFlautistOct 26, 20182 votes

No, hp is intentionally bad because tanks get more value from HP than squishies, as opposed to squishies which definitely don't get broad value from ad.

Or something.

Iota ThetaOct 26, 20184 votes

{quoted}

No, hp is intentionally bad because tanks get more value from HP than squishies, as opposed to squishies which definitely don't get broad value from ad.

Or something.

Except the HP and CDR are miniscule on the road to 18, and even at 18.

At 18, 90 HP is barely noticeable. The HP is even less than what you got from the Resolve tree bonus, meanwhile AD, AP, and Attack Speed didn’t even really get touched.

Most CDR users will hit cap before that CDR shard even has true value, and unless they have Transcendence, they won’t get any use from it, and even then only a small amount of AP.

They don’t need to be large amounts, but the scaling to 18 for that small amount is a bit much compared to the other shards.

Sire HippingtonOct 26, 20182 votes

And the CDR, it would be awsome if it hit at lvl 10, kicking in with transcendence for a nice powerspike at lvl 10, but delayed till 18 it's rather questionable.

FilDaFunkOct 26, 20182 votes

Scaling runes used to match flat runes at around level 6 or 7, IIRC. More meaningful choices that got removed, I guess.

XxoRazorBladeoxXOct 27, 20181 votes

Currently, in the pbe, the scaling cdr runes do cap at level 10. So you should get 10% cdr by level 10, but this rune is somewhat pointless. You can just get transcendence from the sorcery tree if you want 10% cdr by level 10. Doesn't really make sense how they are adding a similar rune. THe only champions who may benefit a lot from scaling cdr during the first 10 levels would probably just be nasus so that he can stack faster. Other than nasus, there's no point of getting this rune over the offensive stats like adaptive damage and attack speed. As i said, there is transcendence if you want 10% cdr by level 10.