How to fix Elise with one small change.

ApplyForAGrant··23 votes·2,463 views

Make her Cocoon stun duration scale with ranks in her ultimate.

Currently its 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds with each rank in her E. This is a major reason Elise falls off post laning phase. To make the stun not absolutely shit, she has to level up E over her W which sets her clear speed and damage behind other junglers, causing her to 1). fall behind in gold and levels and. 2). lose skirmishes and teamfights as a direct result of lacking damage from W, and not being tanky enough due to point 1.

If you level W over E? Might as well not use Cocoon at all because a single target, 1 second stun on a 14s cooldown is utterly useless in 3v3 and 4v4 fights that dictate the mid game. This is assuming you don't miss the needle projectile in the first place.

Please get rid of this bullshit tradeoff by doing this:

R - Spider Form/Human Form Cocoon stun duration: 1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds

This allows Elise to max W second without losing out on essential utility, as her stun would be 1.5 seconds (what she used to have) starting from level 6. What tier would she be in after this change? I don’t know, especially with Cinderhulk replacing Juggernaut. But at least she can be more than a Cocoon bot/Mobile ward after level 5. A potentially dangerous result is that her early game is slightly buffed too with 0.25 second longer stun but let's be real, even Elise's early game cannot compete with the likes of Lee Sin, J4, Vi, and Nidalee right now.

22 Comments

Penguin Eclipse18 votes

While this would be a nice buff it won't even come close to fixing her.

Learn 2 Swim7 votes

How to fix Elise with one small change.

Rename her to Lee Sin and never get nerfed again.

Keevalroy1 votes

You may be onto something.

hadre2 votes

everything you said is mostly true except the fall behind in levels because a proper clear will always keep you on an average level of the game... its just how the game works right now and its why counter jungling is pointless unless you can clear the same side of the enemy jungle 3 times without them getting any of it (and them showing up to look for it)

ApplyForAGrant1 votes

Elise's early clears are fine, but come level 9 - 13, if you max E second and build Juggernaut instead of Magus, you clear slower than Nautilus. Maxing E gives you no damage, so you fall behind every other jungler who are able to max a second damaging spell.

Magus will fix her clear but it's a really bad item on her. Elise needs to be tanky as soon as possible because she has comparable base stats to Veigar as a half melee character. Most of her gold income is spent on getting tanky. What's the point of getting more gold if you are less tanky because of it?

Poptart Evelynn1 votes

{quoted}

everything you said is mostly true except the fall behind in levels because a proper clear will always keep you on an average level of the game... its just how the game works right now and its why counter jungling is pointless unless you can clear the same side of the enemy jungle 3 times without them getting any of it (and them showing up to look for it)

No, even if you proper clear you are barely behind your bot lane. This gets fixed next patch though fortunately.

Tourian1 votes

What are they changing to remedy this? I have pbe and have seen nothing about XP increases or camp respawns.

WolfChases1 votes

{quoted}

everything you said is mostly true except the fall behind in levels because a proper clear will always keep you on an average level of the game... its just how the game works right now and its why counter jungling is pointless unless you can clear the same side of the enemy jungle 3 times without them getting any of it (and them showing up to look for it)

And than you realise Elise is not a type of a ''FARMING'' jungler....Yes, she falls off anyways late game. Problem is that her ganks are not strong anymore and if you farm a lot it's worthless because you'll be useless late.

A Miss Fortune2 votes

Or give her more damage than Nami or Janna, might fix her.

Celeste Benal2 votes

But Cinderhulk will.... oh too late. Could have used more damage earlier when I was actually jungling.

More CDR would.... oh, shape changing makes that kind pointless.

Longer duration on stuns.... nope, can't kill them.

Needs more damage. Then she will clear faster, not need faster cooldowns, and will be able to gank effectively.

Tourian1 votes

Build tier 2 jg item then leave it at that for the income then go damage and finish the tank item later.

Ornn Star XXX2 votes

I played her for close to 20 games in a row a few weeks ago and really liked her a lot, but realized she wasn't viable. I would end up building 40 CDR every game so the cooldowns weren't the issue. The issue is that items feel like they don't help her at all. If you build her full damage it feels like just slightly more damage, build her full tank she still doesn't feel that tanky. They need to decide what they want her to be and give her more damage or more tankiness/sustain. The fact Juggernaut is getting removed makes her even worse.

Delphinium1 votes

I want to refund elise and bloodmoon elise skin so bad -.- cause elise is too hard to learn.

tofutime5 votes

Nothing hard about her. Just a lot of useless abilities.

JJ H0G1 votes

She's hard? I got her in Nemesis and thought that all the QQ about her being killed by the nerf bat was bronzies. I wouldn't mind her becoming OP, though.

Partholonian1 votes

I loved getting her in Nemesis because you could give away a team that doesn't have a single viable jungler. Elise may not be competitive with the pro popular junglers, but she can farm the jungle and come out and kill people who are out of position.

I don't know how much relevance this has to game modes where you can just pick someone who does those things better, though.

Anyway, as for the OP's suggestion, why not just buff the stun to 1.2/1.4/1.6/1.8/2? Or even 1.4/1.55/1.7/1.85/2? Then it'll be a better 1 point wonder, allowing her to have all the benefits of midgame W maxing while still having a decent stun at all stages of the game.

tofutime1 votes

this still ultimately makes her a stun bot. There is no "end game fantasy" for Elise. The problem is that she has 4 damage spells that do no damage. When is the last time you've been scared of her human form w running towards you? Her kit is just god awful right now. If they want to give her damage spells then give her some damage. If they want her to play the tank role then she needs more than a single target skillshot stun which is basically what she has regressed to.

Levyathyn1 votes

I would like this change. I'm not bad with Elise, and she works fine in low ELO and unranked where she isn't too hard countered by players who know how. But I have to build a tanky AP damage route and ignore her E until late-game. Even the brief stun makes me relevant as Elise, and helps me land kills, but for a skillshot so useful and long-ranged, the limited time it stuns and it being her only real CC make it troublesome.

Tourian1 votes

The problem is is that if you buff her damage she's going to be ridiculous because if you go AP on her she can do 30% ish health BONUS damage and her W's do like .8 scaling so they nuke. They either need to give her innate tankiness again, give her more CC, giver her SW a movespeed active bonus, or have her W scale cooldowns. She's not BAD right now you just play her differently that you used to (Less tank more ap assassin). The thing about her is is that she has really versatile build options which gets kinda dangerous.

Abyssphere2 votes

{quoted}

The problem is is that if you buff her damage she's going to be ridiculous because if you go AP on her she can do 30% ish health BONUS damage and her W's do like .8 scaling so they nuke. They either need to give her innate tankiness again, give her more CC, giver her SW a movespeed active bonus, or have her W scale cooldowns. She's not BAD right now you just play her differently that you used to (Less tank more ap assassin). The thing about her is is that she has really versatile build options which gets kinda dangerous.

Eh, what's wrong with her having burst?

Tourian1 votes

Because a guaranteed 3rd of someones hp from a 4 second cooldown spell is kind of ridiculous. I main her, I'm biased towards her as fuck, I would love her to be OP as shit like Katarina or someone, but if that ends up happening it'll be a one step forward 3 steps back kinda thing because riot loves to nerf her.

meatjunjun1 votes

I want Elise to be buffed so bad. I bought her cause she looks so badass and loved her versatility. But before I could even try her out, she got nerfed to the ground.

More from Gameplay

More by ApplyForAGrant