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What makes Ahri so healthy compared to other assassins?

ApplyForAGrant·6/11/2015, 4:20:16 PM·21 votes·3,395 views

This isn't a QQ thread but more of a curiosity thread because Ahri seems to possesse many qualities that is despised by this forum, yet nobody complains about her. She is also the midlaner with the highest pick rate (17%) and 3rd highest win rate (53.5%), and it's been that way for 5 months. Btw I refer to Ahri as an assassin in this thread because even without DFG Ahri is still an assassin by definition because she has mobility + tons of single target burst. Let's list what's so great about Ahri's kit.

She's the only assassin besides Ekko and Yasuo with hard CC, and we know how much these 2 are QQ'd about. The mobility of Ekko and Yasuo are also mostly conditional, where as Ahri can use her ult and Q whenever she pleases. She is nearly impossible to gank, and very easy to gank for.
Her damage potential is underestimated. Her Q at 280 (+70% AP) is also one of the highest damage spells in the game if she lands both portions. Even if she misses her Q, her W and R alone can deal up to 674 (+154% AP) worth of point and click damage if she isolates her target. Not to mention her Charm also deals decent damage for a utility spell too at 200 (+50% AP).
She is one of the few assassins that also deals substantial AoE damage. Her Q can hit up to all 5 ppl, and her W and R point and click nuke can hit up to 3 ppl. The only spell that's single target is her Charm. LeBlanc on the other hand have only 1-2 AoE spells, and they cover a very small radius.
She can easy get around her Q and E being skillshots. Her ultimate allows her to get close and reliably land her charm, in the same way that Lb's chain is reliable. She can then throw out her Q for guaranteed full damage.
She is one of the few assassins that also have lane sustain, healing for up to +54% AP of health if her Q lands it onto all 6 minions in a wave which is massive.
She has very low mana costs for an AP midlaner, with only her ultimate being 100 mana. Her Q at 65-85 mana is very low for how much damage and waveclear it provides.

So with all of this, why isn't Ahri hated, what makes her less frustrating to play against than LeBlanc or Zed?

97 Comments

OhthePiplup6/11/2015, 4:23:31 PM17 votes

She has well defined weaknesses and strengths

McAllister6/11/2015, 5:44:36 PM12 votes

She has terrible AoE. Her Q is her only AoE. When abilities do a set amount of damage that can be spread around like her R and W, spreading it around is a disadvantage, not an advantage. Consider Brand ulting 2 people vs. ulting 5 vs. ulting 5 in a minion wave.

Her burst is bad because it's slow for burst and it relies on isolation. She has hard CC because otherwise she'd have no good way to land all her damage on someone in a timeframe that qualifies as burst. By the time you've hit someone with the full damage of all three R dashes, that's an extended fight, not an assassination.

Her hard CC is very good, but it's neither particularly fast, nor wide, nor long-ranged, and it generates a healthy amount of fear. In short, it's reasonably hard to land.

She can sustain her health, but not her mana. People who can only sustain one or the other have a useful, but not oppressive, advantage. Riven with lifesteal, Swain post-6, or Cho or Vlad anytime are obnoxious because they can keep all their bars full.

Her ratios aren't impressive considering their difficulty. Again, they're nice on paper when you hit E, both parts of Q, all three parts of W and all nine parts of R, but that's really hard. People don't hate her because she needs to work for kills.

disregardable6/11/2015, 4:33:59 PM7 votes

She has too low of damage to be considered an assassin. She isn't going to 100-0 you until late game, and even then you still need to fuck up. Not to mention, she's not really good at killing marksman/damaging behind the back line, which in this meta is what makes a really desirable assassin.

Arsames6/11/2015, 6:20:39 PM6 votes

Ahri IS NOT AN ASSASSIN, SHE IS A MOBILITY MAGE. Yasuo IS NOT AN ASSASSIN, HE IS A FIGHTER.

ItsStout6/11/2015, 5:28:21 PM6 votes

She's not an assassin anymore, and when she was she abused an item. So yeah, she's more of a mage.

I feel like champions that have assasin as a secondary role are (generally) healthier than full assasins. Examples include Yasuo, Yi, Malzahar, Ahri (ta-da) ect...

Now when we talk about the QQ, that relates more to player perception than actual game health. A trend I noticed with some of the most "frustrating" champions (other than assasins) is that they have a powerful defencive spell while being a carry (Ekko, Yasuo, Riven). Wether or not this makes them "unhealthy" is up to debate, although in my opion their KITS at the least are fine.

What sperares Ahri's passive from them is its hard for people to exagerate their strengths, such as "riven 1v5'd umder turret and took 6 turret shots and lived because her shield is op" or "yasuo windwall blocks everything". Its harder to say "ahri healed to full and killed my whole t3am plz nerf passive plox" than it is for people to say the (equally stupid) other statements.

Drunk Rummate6/11/2015, 4:48:27 PM5 votes

Because Ahri's damage comes out much slower and generally takes multiple rotations on her QW to kill even the squishiest target. Also, over half of her damage is pretty easy to dodge and even if she lands her Q you can dodge it on the return very easily unless she charmed you first.

AyRe CoNteMpT6/11/2015, 4:38:23 PM5 votes

shes a mix between an assassin and a mage. its pretty hard to balance i guess and i would still consider ahri to be one of the strongest midlaners currently. im actually happy shes unpopular in the LCS since in all elo, the noobs (all players) only play what they saw in lcs yesterday and i think all this vladimir mid n shit is much easier to beat than ahri.

76Summers6/11/2015, 5:00:43 PM5 votes

idk... she possesses higher win rates too..

Alipheese is bae6/11/2015, 9:57:27 PM4 votes

It's a skill cap thing, not "muh skillcap", but an actual skillcap thing, give her a try, and see for yourself. I used to see good Ahri players, they make it look so easy to deal a million damage from relative safety, and sustain up from any damage they do take. But I played her a fair bit, and trust me, when you're not good at her, you feel almost useless. On the contrary, pick up Leblanc for a game, and you'll see just what the difference is.

Dies to Wolves6/11/2015, 6:55:23 PM4 votes

the real answer is that, after nerfs a while ago, people "forgot" she was cancer as usual. She then got buffed and nerfed and items changed and what not, she's really really strong again, but she hasn't gone back to being "omg she's so OP" to the fotm hivemind

PenguinOverlord86/12/2015, 1:21:02 AM3 votes

I would say it's all in her mobility. Her Q is a speed buff and not many complain about it because it's only a temporary speed buff. And her ultimate Has weird pauses in between where you can easily cc. Plus it's her ultimate not some basic ability like LeBlanc's w. Speaking of LeBlanc she can dash/blink up to 4 time with her distortion shenanigans. Even Zed is Guilt of this. His ult puts him in 1 location then he can blink back. Also his shadow ability which we all know about. Ahri's mobility has some weakness's and downfalls, mainly her Spirit Charge pauses and the fact that her Q is only a skillshot. She can still do high damage and get out but there is room for counterplay.

Nameless Voice6/11/2015, 5:17:57 PM3 votes

Her ult has a huge cooldown (unlike any other assassin's mobility), and even if she uses it, her opponent still has time to react and dodge her charm (or be in a good position with respect to minions to make it really difficult for her to get a clean shot.)

All of her spells can be played around - her skillshots can be dodged or blocked by minions, and her other spells home in on minions and can be blocked by them.

Finally, her entire combo is slow to pull off, giving her opponent time to react instead of being instantly deleted (unless they are charmed, but even then it usually takes her longer to unload her damage than the charm duration.)

Finally, while her ult makes her safe, it's also a huge part of her damage. If she uses it offensively, it gives her a long window of vulnerability for her opponent to exploit.

Personally, I think her speed boost on Q is a bit much, it makes her less of an assassin and more someone who just safely farms with Q and runs away. Not so much frustrating as a bit boring.

Krigjer6/11/2015, 9:08:42 PM3 votes

Unlike Zed and Ekko and Leblanc, if Ahri gets in range to the backline with her ult, she's screwed if her team doesn't have some major disengage or a Thresh lantern.

People seem to be fine with assassins and their burst, it's the fact that they can jump in, burst, and get out, doing all of it very safely.

Knight SoIaire 6/11/2015, 9:15:53 PM3 votes

why is ahri a healthy assasin

because unlike le blanc yasuos zeds and other bastards ahri doesnt just assasinate you she needs to get in a good spot with ult which alerts you to dodge then she needs to land a charm which you can dodge and even then if she isnt fed she will need couple of seconds before actualy killingyou giving you chance of doing something

The only reason assasins get to be unhealthy is becuase you cant interact with them ... they are in range and they delete you ... no questions asked ... unless they fail and lack damage to do so

but their playstyle rewolwes around "press buttons to remove a carry" not much thinking nor actualy playing ... owerall not much skill involwed

Ahri and newly released ekko (an adc who isnt fed can kill a fed ekko if he plays his cards right, try that with zed le blanc talon fizz or simply other assasin) can be considered healthy mainly becuase they fight you instead of removing you ... you can outplay and kill them (less with ahri than ekko but still dodging is op)

when it comes to healthy assasins i would also count kassadin here ... many consider him underpowered but he is fine (as an assasin he is fine ... comapred to earlier mentioned bastards he is indeed weaker), he isnt as much into counterplay as much as he is forced to execute a rather burstless playstyle where he executes those who are out of position (basicaly he is like ekko .... just a tad weaker) which again involwes fighting and if he is forced to ult a lot he goes oom

what defines a healthy assasin are the possibilities his enemies have at countering them

TheDevice6/11/2015, 9:24:11 PM3 votes

Riot even lists Ahri as an assassin (secondary role). She is in-between.

No, OP is absolutely correct. She has a great deal amount of mobility, burst, range and can assassinate squishes just as well as any late game assassin. People dont bitch about her because they're used to her and she has a more favorable look lol. Thats the real truth. (jk the race card)

Nothing insanely wrong with ekko to the degree these forum posters have been making him out to be. He's a melee assassin who was just recently released and will probably need a few tweaks before he settles in.

What are the chances a new champion is released who will never require any further changes based on real-play data? Slim.

But everyone wants to run around and freak out when hes obviously not that broken. NO more broken than ahri was at one point or LB (maybe still) or kata or zed or yasuo or kha or rengar or master yi or kassadin. Get real son.

Stacona6/11/2015, 10:40:39 PM3 votes

Ahri has less upfront burst - Zed, Katarina, Leblanc, etc. are toxic because they one shot you from beyond your screen One shotting is the worst element in any game, especially pvp games - this is something Riot needs to fix is the burst element to league and try to create a healthier burst element one that does not entail one-shotting someone

insaiyanbacca6/11/2015, 6:41:14 PM2 votes

ahri is kinda weird imo she's not quite a kiting mage not quite an assassin kinda like a mix of both, compared to most assassins she has reasonable teamfight compared to mages she has weak teamfight, but she does have well defined weaknesses such as shes pretty much all skillshots she doesnt do very much without ult. the reason people hate on leblanc and in some part zed but most of the zed hate cleared up after they gave him a 1 sec return timer on his ult, now people just complain about lb because she just jumps in murders your carry and can usually jump back to safety unless your cc tank is smart.

A Miss Fortune6/11/2015, 6:50:10 PM2 votes

Ahri is skillshot reliant, though her Q hitbox is pretty big and difficult to miss, it's not like her Q alone can necessarily instakill you early - mid game unless she is ridiculously fed. Her charm is fairly difficult to hit, especially in lane but if she does manage to hit it on you, then you obviously mispositioned, was ambushed, or you just have no idea what you're doing.

I like Ahri as a legitimate mobility champion. She has mobility, but it's not Kalista tier where she dashes every half a second. Her ultimate gives her 3 dashes on a fair cooldown, and she gains a burst of movement speed for 1.5 seconds with her Q. She has mobility but she's not abusive towards mobility and uses it when she needs to. If she has good experience with playing Ahri she will kill you, however even if she's fed you can shut her down. She's a really healthy assassin with very defined strengths and weaknesses. Sure, she can carry the game and instakill your own carry, but with proper strategy you can bring her down. Though shutting her down might vary in difficulty, it's always possible.

Other assassins like Zed don't have huge fall offs or many weaknesses, they can fit into any team comp really any still do fine. Sure Zed has a decent skill base, but he's not skill shot reliant in the sense he would be useless without hitting his Shurikens (Which are harder to miss than to actually hit.). He is Energy based which is Riotspeak for resourceless, is strong in any part throughout the game with his power significantly increasing, and is just a very toxic champion to fight against. I'm not saying Ahri isn't super toxic, but if you can dodge her skillshots or just CC her, she's dead. Whereas Zed can just press R and he gets a "whoops, I messed up." redo.

Ahri may not be the MOST healthy, balanced, fun assassin/mage in the game, but she definitely is one of the more balanced ones with limited mobility (though she has mobility.), a decent skill base, strengths, and weaknesses.

BestTristMyHaus6/11/2015, 7:01:02 PM2 votes

No one complains about Ahri because LoL is a weaboo game. Give Kat a skin with Cat ears and a tail and watch the complaints disappear.

Anonagon6/11/2015, 7:16:43 PM2 votes

Unlike other assassins:

Ahri doesn't kill you in less than half a second. Yeah, she can kill you in the duration of her E... if she uses (and lands) all her spells + ludens + ignite. On top of that, it'll take about 1.5-2 seconds to do all that, more if she needs to ult more than once, meaning that you have ample time to cleanse and escape, or get saved by teammates
Ahri isn't completely fucking useless when behind. She gets that from her R and E, which allows her to make picks even when she's 0/8. She can also push with Q/W, and being ranged + plus having sustain makes her not as easy to just harass the fuck out of like you can do with Yasuo and Akali when they are behind.
She doesn't have a "get out of jail free". Yeah if she only uses 1/2 charges of her ult to kill you, she can use the others to escape, but its a short range dash unlike Zed, Leblanc, or Ekko blinking away.
While she has hard CC, its a single target skillshot. So unlike Yasuo or Ekko, you can body block it. There are actually some other cases of assassins with hard CC, notably Shaco's fear, and some others where the champion isn't officially categorized as an assassin but play exactly like one, like Diana/Lee/Poppy/Quinn, but these generally all have their balancing factors, like Ahri's.

These two things are what makes Ahri "healthy". Of course, "healthy" and "strong" are two completely different things, and Ahri may be a little too strong right now, at least in SoloQ. She's probably the best mid laner for SoloQ, along with Annie. She could probably use some mana cost changes, but other that I don't see anything really wrong about a champion who thrives in chaos doing well in the chaos of SoloQ.

Hatless Casual6/11/2015, 5:03:55 PM1 votes

Just land a form of CC and watch her die. That's all it really takes.