i'm afraid you're underestimating -3 ad/-50 hp nerf Sir

Ahristocats·Jul 13, 2017·25 votes·1,501 views

i'm afraid you do not realise what -3 ad can do, like slowing clears, making 1v1 a bit worse, reducing Sheen damage, sterak bonus AD, making last hitting more difficult, reducing sustain via lifesteal

i'm afraid you do not realise that -50 hp will make you dying WAY MORE TIME than you do

Everyone here recall the amount of time they survived with 50 hp a gank or a burst or anything, WELL THEN why don't you realise that with -50 hp you would be dead? and it's not even 50 hp, it's like 80 or 90 with a base of 40 mr and 30 armor

base stats nerfs/buffs are probably the highest amount of changes done in dota2, and it contributes so much to balance the game

19 Comments

MistroTTCJul 13, 201715 votes

Don't forget that lee sin has a large attackspeed steroid for his passive, so base ad nerfs hurt his clears more then it normally would.

PennsJul 13, 201712 votes

50 hp is kind of a lot (basically your veterans scars mastery is gone), but 3 AD on a champ that doesnt build Sheen and literally only has bonus AD scalings (or ap for elise) is... hm.

SteelflameJul 13, 20176 votes

Base AD is a very impactful stat on jungers, because unlike laners, they use the full strength of their autos constantly, they don't "Just need the last hit."

Its a very subtle impact, but its an important one.

PennsJul 13, 20171 votes

Well Im not sure how much it matters when doing Raptors or stuff like that, but 3 AD is mostly just gonna mean 1 extra auto attack to your red buff or Gromp if anything since none of their spells scale with AD.

SteelflameJul 13, 20173 votes

Are you a jungler? If yes, how many times have you seen a mob-camp with just 1-10 HP left? That +3 AD woulda been really nice there, wouldn't it? Thats a fairly common thing to run into too.

Well, now Lee Sins and Elises lost that 3 AD so they run into that situation more.

Is it a major thing? No. But it effects reliability, speed, and damage taken in a clear. It slows down their clears, and impacts their all ins (In which they tend to auto at least a few times, generally 3-5 times at least. Thats -15 damage. AKA the same type of nerf they may do to a spell on all in damage when nerfing base damage on a spell).

Small nerfs to base stats snowball into other places generally, being the all in, clear speed, and damage taken in a clear.

SteelflameJul 13, 20176 votes

For any junglers any base stat changes are insanely far reaching, shy of MR, and any HP, AS, armor, HP/5, AD, and earlygame CDs changes all massively play into jungle clear efficiency and power. -3 AD can be the difference between you killing a camp in 10 autos and killing a camp in 11 autos. That extra auto means you took about 40-50 more damage per camp that it changed, which means Gromp, Blue, and Red most likely, and maybe big wolf. Good lord if it makes you take an extra auto to kill a small Raptor, I just feel sorry for you, and am already writing my speech for your funeral.

ProfDrDeathJul 14, 20172 votes

"Executed."

Was written on his tombstone.

XIII VanitasJul 13, 20173 votes

I'm afraid you're underestimating Lee Sin's sustain.

AhristocatsJul 13, 201710 votes

oh thanks i forgot that lifesteal depends on base AD

XIII VanitasJul 13, 20174 votes

Doesn't change the fact that Lee Sin has one of the best (if not the best) sustain in the jungle, which means that he's always had more effective base health than his opponents early game.

He already has many advantages in a duel: 40% attack speed from his passive, 10% lifesteal and spellvamp from his W, a shield, 3 damaging spells at level 3 (one of which is an execute), virtually 2 dashes.

Having less base hp than his opponent (which was probably beaten up by jungle camps more than him) seems only fair to me.

KloqdqJul 13, 20173 votes

I swear this isn't the 5 damage to Azir turret damage "buff" we got. This is actually pretty meaningful but most people see a tiny number and go, "WHAT 3 DAMAGE? ARE YOU HIGH RITO?!?!?!"

Wish people would think about the bigger picture before crying. This is why Zac got screwed with buffs to nerfs.

ArakadiaJul 13, 20172 votes

Very rarely do you survive with 50ish hp, even more so during late game. And because of this hp nerf, people will see they have less health and play safer, generally speaking.

3 ad is going to reduce his sustain by nigh to nothing. Lets say he has 12% life steal from R Hydra, thats .12*3 = .36 health he is losing sustain wise. .36 health is not going to be massively effecting his sustain.

-50 health will not make you die "WAY MORE TIME than you do" (We both know what you meant, I'm just quoting you still), because:

A): Most of the time you don't live with 50 health.

B): You will now calculate and play the game because you can see you have 50 less health.

C): It's only 50 health, that is not a large amount of health.

Oh and I don't see how it is hurting his dueling power when he relies on BONUS AD scaling, primarily bursts enemies via spells, and its a mere 3 AD which is going to matter even less because armor reduces damage taken by a %.

Yeah these are significant nerfs, unlike the -4 AD on a certain AP assassin, but your making them out to be much more then they are. I'm afraid you're overestimating the 3 ad, 50 hp nerf Sir.