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We need a more in-depth item tutorial.

The Ecdysiast··2 votes·318 views

What we have now-- "the enemy is AD so buy Thornmail first item on Ashe." Isn't even remotely close to a real game, even against beginner bots. We need an in-depth tutorial on which items to buy in which situations so new players-- who for the past two years are getting to level 30 twice as fast with even less experience-- can get some knowledge of how to build against the enemy team instead of rushing a set-in-stone "meta" build for the champion.

Sure, if a build is drastically overpowered to the point that it doesn't even matter who you're playing against, that works. It's also a sign of drastic imbalance. But when that isn't the case, it's important to be able to read which items you need for the situation.

A better item tutorial, even just as much as having certain situations presented and which items to buy in that situation (Grievous Wounds items against a Warwick bot, Maw of Malmortius/Banshee's against an Annie bot, Zhonya's against a Zed bot), would greatly improve the experience for new players and their friends who are trying to teach them the game. It would also increase the speed at which new players will legitimately be ready to play with other human players.

13 Comments

DeathBurst2 votes

Actually, the "in-depth item tutorial" is the recommended item sets for each champs.

Anything beyond that isn't a "tutorial" anymore.

1011001110002 votes

That's not really in-depth. It's rudimentary at best, and doesn't really teach people about item synergies or counter-building.

DeathBurst1 votes

That's far beyond tutorial material. That's advanced notions that you barely need even in Silver.

1011001110002 votes

I mean stuff like "This item is ALSO good with this item." or "There's more items that you can build, here's how you can find what you need to beat your enemies!"

DeathBurst2 votes

I do understand, but I mean, that's not stuff to put in a tutorial. A tutorial isn't supposed to be an advanced guide on all the subtleties of the game, it's an entryway for beginners.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

For fighting games, each individual character has their own tutorial for every single combo.

I'm not even asking that level of effort.

Recommended item sets are not updated often enough, and often times items will be changed so that they no longer work with the champion without being removed from their recommended. At the very least, an item tutorial needs to cover what situations the situational items in the recommended builds are for.

DeathBurst1 votes

A move list isn't a tutorial... In fact, it's pretty similar to a list of recommended items.

I do agree that item sets are not updated often enough, but for the rest, we'll have to disagree.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

So you don't play fighting games?

Yes, they have a move list. They also have in-depth tutorial sessions where you practice every single combo for each character. I don't see how you got that confused.

If you think that what we have currently is enough, then you're applying your current knowledge falsely to the experience of new players. You're looking back and thinking it wasn't very hard for you when in actuality it took months, if not years to amass the experience to read the situation and build accordingly-- assuming you even do that.

DeathBurst1 votes

Well, indeed I didn't touch a Fighting game for years, and when I did, the technology you're talking about probably wasn't here. Last I tried, you had a list of moves, and potentially a list of combos (which is basically just a list of lists of moves, so...), and you could just go in training mode and practice on a standing dummy. If you were lucky, you could set the dummy to perform some simple action to train for parry or counter-attacks...

And I'm not thinking that what we have is enough. I'm just saying that: a/ you won't get anything more any time soon, and b/ even if it's not great, it's not as terrible as you make it sound, and it's mostly sufficient for beginners playing at Bronze level and below.

And mind you, "Bronze level and below", including unranked and sub-level 30, is probably more than 50% of the total player base. Bronze alone is already more than 30% of the Ranked population. If people want to learn and improve to Silver and above, that's beyond tutorial material. That's "advanced".

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Silver is not advanced. Bronze is reserved for players who don't know mechanics and the very basics because of an inadequate tutorial and a lack of teaching.

They don't give out rewards for getting to Silver because silver is "average," which in itself is loosely defined by the fact they don't have a half-decent tutorial.

The tutorial we have actually does tell you to build Thornmail on Ashe, last I checked. And even the slightly more detailed recommended build for bots is so outdated that it still says Zeal builds into Trinity Force.

All they learn is how to move, attack, and purchase items. Many new players don't even know that green means AP and orange means AD.

The tutorial is only enough to show players how to be terrible players. It doesn't ready them to play against half-decent people, meaning that they stick to playing against players who likewise don't know anything and take far, far longer to improve than they should. Not knowing what to buy to defend against the opponent or break through their defense is like if you tried playing Soul Calibur and you and your friends didn't know unblockable moves were possible, so you just keep on playing like fools until someone who knows just that little bit of information meets you online and stomps you.

A tutorial should give you the basics and update as the basics do, and situational item building is one of the core basics of this game. It doesn't need to tell you every ability of every champion. That's what the spotlights and wiki are good for. But players should not have to go out of their way to seek build advice due to laziness on the part of the game creators.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

It's not far beyond tutorial material at all. Recommended builds aren't advanced notions, they're the core 2-3 items for a champion. In most cases, the rest of the build is situational. A tutorial should cover which situations you change your build for.

It's not too much to ask at all, especially since it would greatly improve the experience for new players and their friends who are trying to get them to play the game.

DeathBurst1 votes

I was not talking about core items, I was replying to AtrocityEyes, and he was talking about items synergies and counter-building. I suspect you're not reading the thread in Discussion View?

And yes, it's too much, at least with Riot's current philosophy. They barely care about new players at all, so you're not getting what you're asking for any time soon. I pointed out that Recommended Items do provide some parts of what you were asking for, the rest is beyond my reach.

I LAV IT MATE1 votes

When i was a beginner (newbie, noob ... xD) i had a problem with items .. which one i have to buy .. why when .. how to use them (if they have active effect) ... but it was fun trying them ... failing .. going for the wrong build ... this is how we learn ... i don't need a tutorial to tell me which item i have to buy for ashe ... i have all the possibilities (for a beginner ofc ..n ot in ranked xD ... or maybe even in Ranked idk lol)

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