I will say this again.

Marshbouy·Oct 8, 2016·3 votes·192 views

Thormail will NEVER deal true damage, apply grevious wounds, or even become slot efficient. There are two reasons why. -It's not designed to let a tank deal free damage. It's designed to negate the healing of ADCs. -A champion dying from attacking someone is horrendous for the game. there is no counterplay, and nothing you could do in that situation.

The only way i could see this item becoming more relevant is if it is given more counterplay, or there are ways of countering it.

25 Comments

RivuoOct 8, 20165 votes

Ashe kills herself hitting Malphite because thornmail

Malphite on boards 10 minutes later

''FUCK RITO FUCKIN BUFF THORNMAIL SHIT STUPID WEAK WTF RITO''

Ashes build in that game

item 3072 item 3139 item 3036 item 3065 item 3111

MarshbouyOct 8, 20162 votes

Accurate.

RivuoOct 8, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Accurate.

downvoted for telling the truth

MarshbouyOct 8, 20162 votes

Of course! Don't you understand my boy? The boards aren't for truth! the boards are for circlejerks and whining about everything!

RivuoOct 8, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Of course! Don't you understand my boy? The boards aren't for truth! the boards are for circlejerks and whining about everything!

idk how someone can want thornmail to apply true damage or grevious wounds...

when i play adc and someone buys a thornmail it literally makes me not ever attack them until i get the proper items to do so.

MarshbouyOct 8, 20162 votes

Because very few can use a brain and see how the game affects multiple roles at once. (i am guilty of this sometimes) the majority of players on the boards don't understand how powercreep and itemization actually works, they can't see past a problem that they want fixed. They don't care if fixing that problem will create considerably larger ones. -creep block destroying the coding of the game -thornmail becoming mandatory, creating a tank meta, and crowding out other armor items -the issues with a support keystone/mastery the list goes on and on.

BranagenOct 8, 20164 votes

-A champion dying from attacking someone is horrendous for the game. there is no counterplay, and nothing you could do in that situation.

Well then how about illaio, morde, or the other champs that kill you by attacking them?

MarshbouyOct 8, 20163 votes

how exactly do you die from attacking mordekaiser, illaoi, and those "other champions"?

GULAG 4 UOct 8, 20161 votes

Mordekaiser built sunfire cape : ^)

MarshbouyOct 8, 20161 votes

that applies to any champion that ever builds that item, and the damage is within a short radius. I think you were just joking though : ^)

GULAG 4 UOct 8, 20161 votes

Of course I am. I have no idea why branagen is upvoted.

#fuck the tank circlejerk

#hatedaddy ftw

MarshbouyOct 8, 20161 votes

You are right. The entirety of the boards is a tank/mage circlejerk where support players are gods and ADC mains are filthy peasants.

GULAG 4 UOct 8, 20161 votes

Remember to hate yasuo for free upvotes too. And do not use logic, always QQ. Always say fuck you to riot.

How to boards 101

MarshbouyOct 8, 20161 votes

actually true.

GULAG 4 UOct 8, 20161 votes

Also remember to blame your team, dynamicQ, and the fact you got 2 trashuos on your team today as the reason why you aren't diamond.

MarshbouyOct 8, 20161 votes

oh yeah. totally, it's not that i went for kills the whole game instead of objectives, oohh no. the enemy team was premade.

GULAG 4 UOct 8, 20161 votes

Also "Yasuo has no counterplay, that's why he has a 48% winrate instead of a 68% one"

It's ridiculous. At least some people post decent content such as malicious metal, but more often than not people are QQing and crying

MarshbouyOct 8, 20161 votes

It's ridiculous. At least some people post decent content such as malicious metal, but more often than not people are QQing and crying

yeah. Although i do notice that the "popular" boards posters stray away from topics like thornmail.

GULAG 4 UOct 8, 20161 votes

True. Malicious, Heretic, Tidal, hatedaddy and other have a reputation to uphold, and since they aren't stupid, they avoid posting anything about it so people that don't agree with them don't look at them in a "bad light".

MarshbouyOct 8, 20161 votes

Yeah, although it's frustrating to see them just become popularity whores sometimes.

GULAG 4 UOct 8, 20161 votes

From my memory all of the above excluding HD have said that they don't like Yasuo, similar to the majority of the board's opinion. Hatedaddy literally gives no fucks about triggering people and actively calls circlejerks out.

ParoeOct 8, 20162 votes

you realize by that logic, thornmail ONLY applying greivous wounds and potentially something else, with no damage, would be possible?

The point of thornmail IS in fact to give true tanks -leona, braum, rammus, malphite, nautilus - a passive way to deal damage in a way that benefits the team. If you gave thornmail reflective greivous wounds and, say, a 5% physical damage reduction that stacked up to 4 times depending on how long youve been in combat, it would be a fantastic true tank item but it wouldnt match up to the fantasy behind the item. that fantasy being "im a tank and if you focus me or try to duel me, youre gonna have a bad time."

MarshbouyOct 8, 20162 votes

you realize by that logic, thornmail ONLY applying greivous wounds and potentially something else, with no damage, would be possible?

yes. I do realize that.

The point of thornmail IS in fact to give true tanks -leona, braum, rammus, malphite, nautilus - a passive way to deal damage in a way that benefits the team.

You do realize that dealing damage for being attacked is still an incredibly stupid idea, right?

that fantasy being "im a tank and if you focus me or try to duel me, youre gonna have a bad time."

too bad that "fantasy" is incredibly toxic for the game and has absolutely 0 counterplay except stacking lifesteal.

how thornmail is right now should be fine. It's an item that punishes ADCs or autoattackers for not building sustain and will eventually kill them if they do not grab a lifesteal item, but will negate that lifesteal if focused.

What is not fine is thornmail being hard to itemize against, dealing stupid amounts of damage, and having 0 counterplay.

ParoeOct 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

yes. I do realize that.

You do realize that dealing damage for being attacked is still an incredibly stupid idea, right?

too bad that "fantasy" is incredibly toxic for the game and has absolutely 0 counterplay except stacking lifesteal.

how thornmail is right now should be fine. It's an item that punishes ADCs or autoattackers for not building sustain and will eventually kill them if they do not grab a lifesteal item, but will negate that lifesteal if focused.

What is not fine is thornmail being hard to itemize against, dealing stupid amounts of damage, and having 0 counterplay.

"0 counterplay" Meanwhile 2.5 total AD scaling basic attacks with a 0.5 second cooldown, something like 57% total armor penetration, and 300+AD. Ever seen a lucian with item 3031 item 3087 item 3036 item 3071 item 3006 item 3508 ? Its not fun. Its not entirely efficient either, but damn if it doesnt shred the world.

Thornmail doesnt feel like a good item, the reason it needs buffs is because of that fact. Increasing the damage would give true tanks a better defense and more lee-way in regards to builds (because true tanks are essentially CC bots - their job is to CC the enemy group). If you add GW to thornmail, it becomes a TANK SPECIFIC anti-sustain item, something tanks lack.
If you increase the damage, it becomes a TANK SPECIFIC anti-focus item, something tanks lack.

The whole "thornmail does a lot of damage" narrative doesnt even make sense because the situation in which thornmail is strong is as likely to happen as the Fourth Reich in real games. Thornmail is, and always will be, a situational item. With no HP, its not worth it to pick up except for all AD comps who dont buy penetration for some reason. When you do pick it up, youre either so far ahead that a deadmans or randuins would be better anyway.

MarshbouyOct 8, 20161 votes

So your entire response is "a champion with late game items is unfair late game". Not to mention, that lucian has no lifesteal and would get shredded by your thornmail.

Thornmail is, and always will be, a situational item.

Unless the horrendous changes that are constantly posted on the boards actually go through (and i pray to the flying spaghetti monster that they never go through).