Zed has been needing nerfs for a long time now

Burnt Light··8 votes·864 views

And it mainly comes from his ability in being an assassin that has easy escape. If it wasn't for his passive and his on-click ulti with a free shadow to escape with, he might be considered balanced, but he isn't.

The argument of this champion being high skilled capped is void because not only is energy a joke of a resource due to how easily it replenishes, but also with the fact that his Q is not hard to land, nor is his E that gives a slow. Not to mention his passive for an assured kill, despite having a high damage ratio over all for being an assassin.

This is how I would nerf Zed for him to even be considered remotely balanced.

Remove the ability for his shadow to use other abilities. Not only is it a cheap addition of damage, but it acts as an escape and gap closer. This should not be a combination of an escape/gap closer/damage utility. Not with his joke of CDR and energy for a resource.

19 Comments

Ulquiorra9954 votes

Removing the ability of his shadows to use other abilities is a terrible idea. It's one of those things that makes Zed what he is - you want 2 of his abilities to be just overglorified mobility tools? Boring, both from thematics and gameplay perspective.

IMO, Zed is the best designed assassin in the game. I'm not saying he's not overbearing, but his design is good. His survivability comes from mobility/jukes, not stuff like sustain or hard CC which should never be on people supposed to get in, kill someone, get out. His ultimate will kill most squishes instantly, but delay means you have a chance for react: CC him, heal, shield, zhonya/QSS.

I think best nerf for him would be to greatly reduce damage his farming/waveclear potential. Greatly reduce damage his abilities deal to minions. Or greatly decrease energy return if two abilities hit a minion. For someone with so strong assassination potential and safety there is no reason he should have easy-mode farming. There is no reason he should be able to clear waves as he pleases, shove you to turret and go roam.

Also, 25% bonus AD on his W could probably go too. Why is it even here honestly?

Kowe The Ewok2 votes

Not overbearing?

Insane damage The ability to attack from multiple angles at the same time Great AoE Clear Energy Bonus 10% health damage on hit Leveraged AD, increasing his AD by 25% Spammable AoE slow (E) Casteable while moving The ability to leverage the damage dealt by active items THREE dashes (4 with Flash) Also the highest base movementspeed ingame 345 (Same as Hecarim!) Invincibility The ability to increase his range (W+Q = 1450 range, beating even Xerath) (Fun fact if you use his ultimate as a bridge you hit targets at 550+625+900 = 2075 distance. Flash can further increase this distance.) The ability to amplify his teammates damage

Seriously, if his kit is not overbearing - whose kit is???

EDIT: Funny how this is downvoted, though every point raised is a fact and not subjective. Gotta love Zed fanboys. Kinda sad how you guys have to deny the truth.

SmokinSickStyle3 votes

Ignorance is fatal, you man, are so stupid and misinformed that you are barely worth a reply.

Bonus 10% on hit has a cooldown per target and it applies ONLY if the target is Less than 50% HP, it's also magic damage, Zed being AD means that it doesn't benefit from his armor pen but magic pen, further reducing it's real damage.

"Leveraged" AD, increasing his AD by 25% is a lie, it's BONUS AD, which means that if you are behind and not buying any AD the bonus will be applied to just runes\masta not to his AD\lvl.

3 dashes, first of all, they are blinks, and if you are using your W and ult as "dashes" outside his 2nd active of the ult then you might be doing something terribly wrong.

Highest base movement speed, HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA, Master Yi and Pantheon say hi (355 ms).

Invicibility? Wat. Your ult can't be really counted as one if your trying to use it as Fizz's E, first because it's your ult and it has high CD, second because you need to target a champion for it, which means you can't dodge everything whenever you want like Fizz can.

Yeah use W+Q, you spent 2 abilities Cd and energy to attempt to damage someone, if you are really comparing Xerath and Zed than i don't even know what to say to you without being heavily offensive.

His ultimate doesn't increase his team's damage you idiot, he's not like Vladimir, and besides there's no increasing damage from his ult, the Death Mark just registers the damage done during the 3 seconds and then at max rank deals a percentage of the damage dealt just before, which is different than increasing damage dealt against an opponent.

He's just a new gen AD assassin that has a great laning phase because he has a very efficient resource and ranged poke (Like Kha and Rengar, the former having mana though.).

Kowe The Ewok2 votes

Reported for herassment. It's sad how you have to have to insult me because you can't disprove what I said simply because it's true. But well, that's the Zed playerbase, I'm not surprised anymore.

SmokinSickStyle2 votes

I'm seriously thinking you are trolling, i wrote an essay to disprove (Actually it was more of a fixing, all i've done is to fix all the misinformed and wrong details you have given) your points.

Reported, lol, go ahead, i fear nothing, i specifically said i couldn't describe your ignorance and stupidity without going heavily on it, if you think it's harrassment you have no idea what true harrassment and insults are.

Imma leave now, if this was an attempt to discuss about a champion, it's turning out to be a discussion that has no valuable goal.

As if i play Zed as only my champion lol.

Sooko1 votes

Bonus 10% on hit has a cooldown per target and it applies ONLY if the target is Less than 50% HP, it's also magic damage, Zed being AD means that it doesn't benefit from his armor pen but magic pen, further reducing it's real damage

Because you are definitely building MR against an AD assassin... Because MR items are super strong right now anyway...

SmokinSickStyle1 votes

Where did i say build mr to counter him?

I simply said that his passive is magic damage and it doesn't do as much as damage as you think since he doesn't buy magic pen, if it was physical he would deal lots more to it's true value because of armor pen.

Sooko2 votes

Just like he doesn't buy Mpen, you don't buy MR.

Nahui4 votes

Actually, I'll go over every point you made kindly and hopefully you won't just rudely write me off as a "Zed fanboy" and zealously say I'm denying the truth.

Insane Damage - Yes, single target, anything else is just average.

The ability to attack from multiple angles - Technically yes, however typically it is from one angle since throwing a shadow to the side doesn't increase your range by much which defeats the purpose of blowing your safety. Very rarely will you have all 3 shadows out and somehow coordinate some sort of super angle attack. Like once in a blue moon, rarely.

Great Aoe Clear - Yes

Energy - Yes

Bonus 10% health damage on hit - This is his max level passive that will only proc once every 10 seconds on a target if they are below 50% health. So, you are correct in this, however you are exaggerating it and making it sound much more than it is. Leveraged AD - Yes, off of bonus AD.

Spammable Aoe Slow - No. He can only slow with his shadow's e. You can get a maximum of two e's in one shadow's duration, and it has a very small area around the shadow. People can see the shadow and not go near it. It also costs energy each time. A W-E-Q-E combo will drain your energy. It is not spammable, you can use it twice at full energy if they decide to sit in the shadow for about 3-4 seconds.

(E) Casteable while moving - Yes. I don't see the issue with this one. It would need to do more than some simple damage if he had to stop and twirl around in the small range it has. In fact that would break his ult's damage.

The ability to leverage the damage dealt by active items - Yes. Namely bork, an item that gives +25 bonus AD, 40% attack speed, and some percent damage on hit. This hurts his w's passive and gives him less AD to use on his spells, and death mark's actual damage. It all balances out. Ravenous hydra gives lots of AD but it's a melee cast range and it gives less than an auto attack's worth of damage as well as not being that great of an item on Zed anyways.

THREE dashes (4 with flash) - Not quite. You're thinking of gap closers, yes. He can shadow, he can ult, he can ult back to shadow, and he can flash. His shadow "dash" takes a tiny bit of time to prep, not an instant dash like lucian or riven. The shadow has a missile speed. If you really want to consider his ult a mobility mechanism, I think you would stand alone on that. I think Zed would fall off if he had to be in auto attack range to ult someone. Zed's ult shadow is also not necessarily a mobility mechanism. It appears where you ult from. Sometimes, yes. That shadow is fairly far off. And sometimes, it's right on top of the person so when you try and ult back to the shadow, you went nowhere. And no, you're not "bad" if this happens. Often you can't avoid ulting when you're right on top of the person. You're over-exaggerating his mobility with the "4" dashes he has with flash. At most he has two.

Highest Base Movement Speed - No. 355 is the highest, there are some 350 as well. This is not "subjective" as you claimed us zed mains to be, it is fact.

Invincibility - No. Zed can time his ult to dodge a spell, correct. This is not invincibility, this is a dodge. Invincibility is Fizz and Kayle. Zed has to use his ult to dodge anything which has a long cd compared to fizz's troll pole. Kayle's is an ult too, but it's designed for it therefore getting much more time. It is not easy simply dodging a spell with his ult. It requires timing and actually having your ult up. He is not simply "Invincible" as you worded it.

The Ability to increase his range - Correct. With the use of two spells, a lot of energy, his mobility, his safety, and a long cd, Zed too can momentarily be a Xerath. And then when Xerath's q comes back in 5 seconds, Zed's shadow does not. This actually has huge counterplay. If Zed uses the shadow for a long range harass, coordinate with a jungler or get your own harass ready. He's not escaping for a solid 10-14 seconds. Plus this long range harass is a skill shot and if it hits anything besides you first, it will tickle. There are many factors that go into this "boon" for Zed.

2075 units - Correct. If you blow every piece of kit he has to be as flashy as possible (no pun intended) just to ult that guy, he can achieve this. Once every 300 seconds. Except his ult's damage is lowered because you no longer have a shadow to help you do some extra q damage/pursue.

The Ability to amplify his teammates damage - ...what? I mean, yes. There is a mastery or two for that. I think it's for every basic attack, his team does like 1% more damage up to 3 stacks. However, I assume you're referring to the fact that his ult uses the damage done by his team too. No. It is only him. Only the damage he does, not including ignite, is factored in.

Overall, I'm going to assume that you main ADC or a mid and have not actually played Zed. The fact that you think he is the fastest in the game, amplifies his teammates damage, and that he has a "spammable slow" leads me to believe Zed is not your most knowledgeable champion, and that's ok. He's recently gained huge popularity with nerfs to other assassins, and it can be easy to just throw hate at a very played champion. Zed has very realistic counterplay, and he is also a very powerful champion that is counter play. If you play mid vs him a lot, pick up an early armguard into zhonyas. Zhonyas is very useful versus him. If you adc, QSS. It gives MR, correct. But it cleanses the ult as well as lowering his bork and passive damage. Plus, putting it into mercurial scimitar gives some nice AD as well as an ms boost when you use it. Also rely on teammate peel. If you're an adc and you're complaining you can't 1v1 Zed, you are indeed correct. It would be overpowered if you could. He is supposed to counter you, however he is not necessarily supposed to counter say you and leona, or you and thresh. Assassin's are there to kill the squishies, not the other way around. Unless you're really fed, Zed should win but that's why Riot implemented the teams of 5 system and didn't make this a 1v1 game.

Overall, don't downplay Zed's difficulty and weaknesses. He's not just a bunch of button mashing, well at least not in higher elo's. Instead of complaining and fabricating some claims on how he's op, sit back and just think to yourself how you can counter it. If he was so broken that there was no counter, there would be a hot fix. If you're an ap mid, think of how you can position yourself in lane to lower/dodge his damage, what you can build, how you can harass. IF you're adc, think about how you'll be positioned in relation to your peel, think of a reaction when he inevitably ults you. IF you're anyone, just think about "If Zed Ults me now, what can I do" and when he finally does ult you, you should have a plan whether it be flash, or an ally's peel, or hell your own peel (Looking at you Veigar). Hopefully this post can sort of enlighten you a little bit on Zed and maybe detract some hate you have from him.

Or you can wave it all off and call me a fanboy and say I'm denying the truth. And hey, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Go and buy Zed and absolutely crush your way to challenger if you believe he's that good! ^_^

SmokinSickStyle2 votes

Finally someone that doesn't have ham layed over his\her eyes.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Quteing Ulquiorra995

I'm NOT saying he's not overbearing

Reading is an art you yet have to master it seems

besides that, while IudexAter is kinda behaving like a dick, he's right at manny points

Kowe The Ewok2 votes

Not to mention this insane AoE clear, his ability to wrecks turrets faster than ADCs can thanks to W and the fact that for some stupid reason his R also amplifies the damage dealt by active items...

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

Wish they could nerf Zed similar to Katarina & Syndra(soon to be), which is to nerf his early game power, while keeping his late game power unchanged.

Im so bad yuck2 votes

The only way to balance Zed is to rebalance him as a AP champion. Seriously.

Being AD allows him to waveclear extremely quickly using basic attacks only, not to mention the 25% increase in AD gains that is there just because.

Zed is fun to play, Zed has extremely high outplay potential, it is awesome when you truly outplay somebody using clever shadow placement and position swapping, it feels shit to win a fight because you bought item 3031 and just R and auto somebody once for a 1700+ damage crit while also lifestealing back to full.

SmokinSickStyle1 votes

You must be goddamn lucky to crit everytime you have ult with just 25% crit chance...

Unless you stack it, lifesteal is not as powerful as you think it is if you are buying IE as AD item, even with Yomama's blade it's 40% and not 100%, pretty much anybody that builds crit+armor pen is gonna deal lots of damage, not as much as Zed because of his W passive but still.

Imo making him AP just makes him stronger, outside of not making sense at all, you really want to see Zed with Zhonya+Rabadon and W bonus AP?

Oh, what about Deathfire Grasp?

There's plenty of good items from the AP side, and currently AP assassins are much better because of their itemization and poor MR resist items WHEN compared to Armor.

That doesn't seem much of a smart idea it seems.

Sire Hippington2 votes

imo, the main problem with Zed is itemisation. Thx to the way arpen stacks, it is easy to shit on low armor targets while still having the %pen to counter armoritems that are ment to counter zed(his%magic damage passive adds to this) Thx to his high base AS and the amplyfy of his ult, aswell as the synergie with his passive, BotrK is a perfect item for Zed, saying fuckyou to anyone who trys to survive his burst by buying HP(since zed will get armorpen, so why even bother getting an armor item) Again, his passive adds to well to this Thx to his base as, high base ad(+E-passive) and the fact that he will get BotrK anyway, aswell as having this 3 sec amp from ult, Yomuuns is incredible effecktive on him, as it boosts his dps with BotrK during the 3 sec Ult by a huge amount.

As a sideeffeckt, which is probably the worst part of it all, he gains a save 50% ms buff and 30% slow from Ghostblade+BotrK active during his ult. In theorie, dodgeing his Q should significantly lower his burst, and kiteing him to avoid damage after his ult should allow you to survive. Hoever, with the usually build he only needs AAs after ult to kill even tanky targets(landing Q still helps though), and with all the ms+slow+the W step, not even a hyper mobillity champ like ahrie or kassa is able to kite him after ult. Last but not least, the only counteritem for not-ap against zed gives mr, thus you can remove the ult, but probably die to him anyways as you lack tankiness overall.

While this all makes it kinda impossible to counterbuilt him as a squishy with somehitng else than GA(whoch has ~5times the cd of zeds ult), it also allows Zed to easily explode tanks 1v1, makeing him a supreme splitpusher(along great waveclear, tower dps and escape)

So in I think the best way to nerf zed is changeing his passive to something else that deosn't fuck tanks(and attempts to counterbuilt his burst as a squishy), reduce his base as to 0.625, an ad-caster shouldn't focus on as-items and reach nearly melee-carry dps levels. Aditionally, i would lower the E cd and also reduce the damage, that would reduce his instand waveclear a bit and also his save harras with W+E, while allowing(and somewhat forcing him) to land a second E duering the ult, so he has a reason to stick all 3 sec to the target even without AA focused built.

removing the abillity-mimick of his shadows is removing his core gameplay and identity, prettymuch the biggest fail ever.

Narasimha1 votes

his late game power unchanged.

...Ok, I'll bite, WHAT late game power? He's one of the weakest assassins late game, right next to Akali.

iamthegoatofwar1 votes

Akali and zed have one thing in common if they roam and snowball hard they will penta your team in about 10 seconds.

OverpoweredSoap1 votes

His problem isn't really his assassination potential imo.

His problem is having waveclear while having a decent escape option as well, which really shouldn't be a thing for at least an assassin.

LeBlanc is kind of good example of an assassin that can waveclear, but will have to sacrifice damage and her escape to do so, even if she is annoying to face.

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