Most his damage is from his ghouls but once they die from anybody auto attacking them once he is kinda useless.
Just imagine Heimer turrets dying in 1 auto attack all stages of the game besides his ult turret.
RavenMagus30 votesI thought about Heimer turrets getting one shot by autoattacks.
I then immediately thought about Heimer turrets jumping at you if he hits you with the stun, and I got really scared.
LordGeovanni5 votesthe thing is heimer turrents are ranged innitially and shoot beyond their range every few seconds to hit all enemies in a line
Are1 votesYou could slow no boots Anivia 99% and she'd still be able to dodge laser shot.
LordGeovanni3 votesthe laser shots are not that easy to dodge there are 3 of them from diffrent directions can be at the same or varying times people think that just because you can dodge them they arent powerfull but there is loads of power in makeing champions forget everything that they are supposed to be doing to play a mini game around your ai pet minions and/or spammable skills
FantasySniper1 votesHeimer's turrets apply spell effects.
You should be more terrified of those cold inanimate fuckers than the cute and cuddly ghouls.
Only Play Darius12 votesAlso make the cooldown on his ultimate work the same way as Tibbers. It's sad how punishing the cooldown is considering he has no direct control over the maiden
Sir Fuzzi5 votesI never thought about how much more agency Tibbers gets, in comparison...
Nautoday4 votesBut I love my opponent getting their ult a full minute before me post-level 6!
LordGeovanni2 votestibbers is the top dog AI summonable in the game (besides shadow Master Heimer ult Q)
Narasimha1 votesEh, they're meant to work differently. You can't push 2 lanes at the same time with Tibbers, for example.
Muddafragot7 votesJust imagine Heimer turrets dying in 1 auto attack all stages of the game...
https://media.giphy.com/media/c1vzm6D1NPzm8/giphy.gif
Oh yeeeeeeeeeees...
Asayake 5150glow6 votesMake Heimer turrets not auto target you.
Yorick ghouls don't, and they're weaker in every other regard as well.
Chembaron Yamada10 votesHeimer's turrets are stationary. They are literally not able to do anything to you as long as you stand outside of their radius. Yorick's ghouls on the other hand are mobile.
Asayake 5150glow5 votesHeimer's turrets are stationary. They are literally not able to do anything to you as long as you stand outside of their radius. Yorick's ghouls on the other hand are mobile.
Because their being stationary matters so much when they are ranged and have plenty of range to hit me as I cs.
LordGeovanni2 votesexactly. people really dont consider the power of range in this game but there is always crying that vayne has a short range... but still not melee or thresh
Nautoday5 votesThen again, Yorick has to Q 3 minions to be able to even use his. And then if they already attack a minion in lane he can't have minions out of lane.
Chembaron Yamada1 votesAnd then again: Yorick's Q is used to summon ghouls, meanwhile it is not it's only function. Heimer's turrets are his Q skill and there is nothing more attached to it, basically his Q is 1/3 of his skillpool (not counting in his empowering ult). Yorick's Q has a function even without ghouls, it is an empowered AA, giving him extra damage and healing.
Summoning ghouls is a tool for splitpushing for Yorick, meanwhile his kit does function even without ghouls.
LordGeovanni2 votesyoricks kit is centered around his ghouls and with out them hes even weaker than heimer with out his turrents. yorick cant build raw damage for his q to stack with because his base defenses are weak and they only put a weak heal that doesnt scale on his q because they took it off of the ghouls from his previous versions and it that healing ghoul was pretty much what you picked yorick for besides his ult before the other ghouls were just damage. summoning ghouls is yoricks kit not just to split push
LordGeovanni1 votesi didnt want to play the game anyway
MuffledGarbage6 votesYorick currently has a risky investment if you buff him...
Yorick can win toplane and feed 0/8 thanks to his ghouls being extra minions enough to deal damage to enemy tower
With Yorick having super sustain with 
or
and 
all makes him heal for the damage his ghouls deal. If you gave him this buff and a yorick gets ahead it would probably push him into an overpowered state in which he would have to be nerfed...
I main yorick so I'm biased and I'd rather not have him nerfed to hell like 
or
Something else to keep in mind is that in a teamfight the enemy adc will want to target the ghouls which will in turn also make it easier for Yorick's team to attack since damage is being mitigated towards the replace-able ghouls vs. Yorick and the other frontliner's health being sucked away by the enemy team.
It's a good discussion we're gonna have, that's for sure
LordGeovanni2 votesor we could leave him in an over powered state like 
MuffledGarbage2 votesout of those I'd say only really and
are extremely broken while the others have a really good large array of matchups
Like how beats a lot of the cast if they can't out-trade him and he gets ahead earlygame.(this also applies to a bit)
I'd say has a bit too much going against her for her to be considered overpowered since her passive doesn't even make her that mobile in the first place. Even if it means more AP it's kinda hard for her to use it if she's able to be poked back, right?
LordGeovanni2 votesCass's passive gives her more speed than boots and she can just put an 
item to get even more she just doesnt eget a sudden increase like everyone else because she cant buy boots but by level 4 she has boots with movement speed with out ever leaveing lane. did i touch on how she gets movement speed with her q and denies it and other mobility spells with her w while still saveing her ult for a rainy day.
top lane has tons of champions that have the purpose of dueling and fiora and darius punish every single one of them for dueling with out a down time window, they can only really fight each other and gnar.
MuffledGarbage1 votesIf I remember right Cass's W has a certain range close to her where she can't use it...
but I do understand where you're coming from with the increase in her speed being a lot and being able to deny most chases or mobility via her W
I still feel though that she gets outpoked by other midlaners such as 
or possibly even 
I kinda feel like if we're gonna call overpowered for having tools to shut down mobility whilst possessing mobility herself I think that we could probably call 
overpowered at the same time too... right?
since his E passive let's him gain amazing amounts of speed
and his Q, Ultimate, W and passive after 
is built can stop a lot of mobility in a lot of his circle of stars
I could argue(assuming I'm not just dumb and am not understanding you. I do that a lot) that is also overpowered due to him being able to permaslow you at a distance perpetually.
I'm going to they say are not quite overpowered since and have the same main weakness which is if you get past their walls and get close to them they become a lot less powerful.
Even if their weaknesses are dealt with using both of their Ultimates. That could only happen every 90 seconds or so. a really long time away from when someone could eventually jump out on them and dispatch of them.
hopefully we can discuss this more because it's getting as a very nice conversation. That's for sure. (and I'm learning a lot :D)
LordGeovanni2 votesi completely consider is broken form he was announced. compareing mages in the mid lane would be nice if they only ever fought with mages in the mid lane. sadly i main the forgotten class Fighters not the broken most recently updated assassins or the other two recently updated classes (some how a year is recent)
MuffledGarbage1 votesI'm a little confused on how any fighters could go into the midlane and be safe without some really good poke
, 
or some way to sustain themselves 
Besides those few champs I'd agree a small fighters update would be nice to have to help fighters get a better reputation other than a bootleg tank(from what I've seen at least)
yeah I concede that was most definitely broken beyond belief at release which it's good that riot nerfed him just enough for him to be dealt with currently
LordGeovanni1 votesfighters cn go mid lane and sit under tower like versus ranged top match ups except with the enemy with stronger damage on spells with lower cooldowns on spells. Zac isnt a fighter unless your build is 
then he can be a juggaranut which is a figther sub class. yoricks sustain isnt gonna heal you mid and yasou doesnt play like a fighter which is why people call him an assassin even if riot has him labeled as a fighter.
Baron of Bread5 votesLets first get them to not be killed by multi-target spells. Ahri's W shouldn't just kill 3 ghouls right out. There are a lot of weird things that one-shot Yorick's walkers.
DarkRitual4 votesScale ghoul health with Ult rank.
TheDevice4 votesHeimers turrets also don't require you to last hit minions with one of his skills and wait until you've done that three times before you can bring them out.
Yes, Yoricks minions need better scaling.
Kaeblen3 votesSo, it used to be that a lot of player-controled minions took 30% damage from AOE attacks.
If the mist walkers were given that ability, and 
bolts were fixed to deal damage as though they were AOE attacks (which means they would deal 30% normal damage to ghouls/mist-walkers), wouldn't that solve the issue?
Danjeng2 votesIf they got a flat out health buff, they would be too good vs minions/turrets.
How about giving the ghouls a point system similar to Zyra's plants, wards, or Yorick's Circle. That way, they will be relevant in team fights, without being overpowered in lane. It will take three autos to take one down, which is more than a second, even with 2.5 attack speed. Imagine if you have four ghouls...
SociopathFriend1 votesThat's... probably why they don't do exactly that- same as Malzahar's voidlings or Tibbers/Daisy.
Champion Skin2 votesGhouls already have a lot of HP... however they are coded to always die from champion auto attacks (be it a support AA which deals 50 damage or ADC AA which deals 600 damage)
Oh and this also makes kill ghouls very effectively
Kaeblen1 votesthe problem with giving them a point system, similar to wards, is the interaction they would then have with minions. simply, minions do not attack wards. nor do they attack yorick's circle. if the ghouls were on a point system, the ghouls would either die very fast to minions, or would be immune to damage from them. neither is desirable, and I believe that is why Riot currently uses normal hit points for them.
Tobias Brackner2 votesHe's supposed to be a split pusher.
The Ghouls are for splitpushing and their design reflects that.
doubleguac2 votesI've played a lot of Yorick since he came out. I really enjoy his kit.
I think his power curve should be smoothed out in general. He is really brutal in the mid game, even if he is behind in gold. But he falls off like a brick late game.
It seems like he is supposed to be a dedicated split push champion. But I would really appreciate more consistency in team fights. So much of his damage is locked up in his ultimate % health damage, but the maiden goes down in about 3 late game ADC autos. The ghouls are also very squishy, like you mention.
Unless he is fed enough to consistently 2v1, he can't even really split push very safely past the laning phase, since he has no escape. It often feels like I am a glorified wall-bot in late game team fights. Just trying to trap any divers.
Maybe enemy (or ally) champion deaths could automatically summon a ghoul. So he has some access to his minions (outside of his ultimate) during team fights.
Or do something to make them not so likely to die from collateral damage in fights. Right now, it feels like people don't even really have to try to kill them. They're just going to go down on their own from miscellaneous AoE.
In general, I don't think he's that bad of a champion. He doesn't need a massive buff or anything. But, ya, like I said at the start, smoothing out his power curve would make him more fun to play as and play against I think.
6Sfool2 votesI am fine with the 1 auto death, but I don't like how runaans can clear them so fast. Champs should be completely focusing the ghouls if they want them dead. They shouldn't all die in 1 auto just because they were near their original target.
And the one QOL buff I truly wish yorick had is for you to be able to reactivate r to make maiden follow you. I play him jungle, and while the maiden is up, I have to be very careful about how I gank. She goes near one minion and I have to wait another 200 seconds before that one dies and another one is up. If she dropped all actions on reactivation, I would be really happy.
Glory ln Death2 votesHow about this - ghouls near the Maiden take two hits to kill. If the maiden isn't there, they're normal.
That would make it possible for the Maiden to actually solo push a lane without a cannon minion and do more than 10% of the turret's health late game.
MuffledGarbage1 votesI love this Idea. I hope the head of the board sees this.
This legit needs an upvote like 10,000 times over.
I'd love to see this in-game
TyroneWatermelon1 votesMist walkers*
ThatHaleState1 votesI mean, ppl have to individually target each one. Heimer turrets get one shot by abilities alot of the time. Ive never understood why something that dies in an auto doesnt die to abilities
Junkο1 votesHe would be disgustingly oppressive to deal with them, since unlike Heimer's turrets or Zyra's plants they can stick to you like glue and eat all your health pretty fast if he lands E. He also doesn't have to set them up in a risky way, Heimer turrets and Zyra plants can be destroyed before they get too oppressive.
Lasoor1 votesAs a Yorick player I wholeheartedly disagree with you. His ghouls late game are so insanely op, they drain enemies really fast and are hard to target for autos. His ult constantly makes more of them as you kill enemy minion waves. But even without any ghouls his ult is still capable of making Yorick win 1v3s when he isn't even fed. I've played a game where I spent entire time keeping enemy top laner in check and neither of us could get kills. Enemy team was hitting our base hard so I went down there and almost got a penta simply because I ran around while they tried hitting me and turned to q them every once awhile. Entire time my ult was draining them for me.
HxC Manickmonkey1 votes[{quoted}](name=Varis Silverkin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mnyOJsR1,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2016-11-21T18:10:19.457+0000)
As a Yorick player I wholeheartedly disagree with you. His ghouls late game are so insanely op, they drain enemies really fast and are hard to target for autos. His ult constantly makes more of them as you kill enemy minion waves. But even without any ghouls his ult is still capable of making Yorick win 1v3s when he isn't even fed. I've played a game where I spent entire time keeping enemy top laner in check and neither of us could get kills. Enemy team was hitting our base hard so I went down there and almost got a penta simply because I ran around while they tried hitting me and turned to q them every once awhile. Entire time my ult was draining them for me.
you can also draw your minions out of lane by using your e on a jungle camp (raptors,gromp,krugs) but don't tell any one XD, i love making them on a pushing wave in lets say bot lane hoping them onto gromp and suddenly rocking up to a fight with three (or four if done right) of them in tow to a fight at dragon or mid lane even surprising some one in the jungle from time to time i managed to score a qaudra like that the other day poor ahri did not even know what hit her strange how people dont expect the gouls to be there if they were pushing a wave
Meep Man1 votesI just wish they wouldn't die in 1 auto so EARLY into late game. Besides that, I disagree.
Oglaf1 votesJust give them "X hits" like Wards across the board.
Problem solved.
Unstoppable Monk1 votesTalking about late game ghouls and not a single mention of how super fast the maiden dies late game?
Oglaf1 votesAs I said: just give them "Ward health" i.e X number of auto-attacks.
Problem solved, plus there's room for further balancing there.
Laxfan521 votesTbh late game his turrets take one auto from and ad champ or two from not ad champs (Ima heimerdinger main)
